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Thin Edges of Vocal Folds

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RowboCaup
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Any suggestions for exercising the "thin edges" of the vocal folds? I'm trying to find some info on an old exercise called the "cuperto" (found here: http://www.voiceteacher.com/cuperto.html), which supposedly exercises this part of the voice. From what I've gathered, strengthening this part of the voice is key to freeing the higher range. Would anyone disagree with this? Any thoughts on how this exercise may or may not be helpful? Any ideas on what may be physically happening? What muscles may be engaging/disengaging?

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Whatever the heck it means (ask different coaches you will get different answers), it has its place, as does working the folds in what feel like a very thick way, as does working the folds in all the medium shades in between.

But I honestly never read that cuperto had anything to do with it.

Working "the thin edges of the folds" is not "key" to freeing the high range, it is just one of at least 5 different concepts required to "free the high range" and even there it gets iffy because anyone can flip to head voice and say "look I freed my high range I can go to A5 now" but that isn't training the freeing of the full voice which is more like a partial freeing of the high range because you can't let go of the power too.

In that case for freeing the full voice, working the thin edges of the folds is more of a warmup/cooldown/tension releasing/counterbalancing exercise, but it is NOT what BUILDS the high range in full voice.

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Which is actually the thickest vocal cord coordination.

It's more to help you stay connected while you thin out.

Would going into the top of your range with vocal fry effectively "thicken the high range?" That is, add adduction where adduction is very weak?

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Khassera, well, if on the low range your adduction is already good, why on the high range does it become weak?

Because the airflow/support changes drastically due to a lapse of focus and an untrained vocal technique, but I wanna think that I can cookie cut my way to a perfectly adducted high range. Why can't I cookie cut my way to a perfectly adducted high range?! Why, Felipe?! :(

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Vocal fry would be a good tool for that actually.

I'm not sure if it thickens the high range in terms of the resulting fold depth. Based on Martin's conversation in the other thread I think yes, and the thinning out is actually adduction reducing. But the sensation of correctly using vocal fry as a vocalizing tool, will be the exact opposite. It is the sensation of your voice thinning out gradually but remaining evenly approximated all the way up so that you don't break into falsetto.

It's just a temporary tool though, a crutch, eventually you have to throw it out and rebalance the voice. the goal should always be to head toward simultaneous onset where there is no attack or no H you need to rely on, you just start every phrase smoothly, keep legato throughout, and end every phrase smoothly.

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Well I don't know, that's why I am asking!

Lets ask more, if you have a higher pitch, would you agree that there is more tension?

Hmmmmmm… It kinda depends on the tonality, usually it feels about the same, although the hardest notes to sing (the mid-highs to me, and probably to most baritones) have the most tension. But the tension is from the diaphragm, abs and arse. I rarely feel tension anywhere else now. I think it's a good thing.

… And if I'm doing the "edge" muscle workout stuff from another, well established vocal program, I actually do a set of scales trying to keep the vocal fry going throughout the scale. At the highest notes it tends to firm up into a very focused head voice, but nothing changes in the tension or configuration. At least that's what it feels like.

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About covering/cuperto, I was trained using the idea and it is not the key or the secret to whatever... It's just control, mainly of the tongue, soft palate and "twang" as most here will know it, with a specific ballance as goal. I don't think it's a good idea to try to learn to do it alone, there is a lot of room for misinterpretation and confusion.

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I am just wondering something while reading this. If, one wants to exercise something then I have to assume it is because that area is weak. How would you know? Becomes my next question. Then, I assume it is because when singing at a certain range, during a certain song, or songs, you have trouble. Ok. That makes sense. But where I start to wonder is when special exercises begin to appear. For a beginner, I can understand because they may have no clue and are doing everything wrong, or can hurt themselves. But for someone a bit more advanced, I then wonder. Why wouldn't they just sing the songs that they have trouble with over and over, adjusting technique, vowels etc until they get it comfortable. That too, is exercise. No?

If I were trying to hit a baseball I can either exercise every part of my body involved in a swing individually or I can just stand in front of a pitching machine for an hour a day batting balls. I like option #2.

Then there is the point of some exercise being too advanced for a raw beginner and can lead to damage. Is there an exercise called Just sing, man ? :)

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Hmmmmmm… It kinda depends on the tonality, usually it feels about the same, although the hardest notes to sing (the mid-highs to me, and probably to most baritones) have the most tension. But the tension is from the diaphragm, abs and arse. I rarely feel tension anywhere else now. I think it's a good thing.

… And if I'm doing the "edge" muscle workout stuff from another, well established vocal program, I actually do a set of scales trying to keep the vocal fry going throughout the scale. At the highest notes it tends to firm up into a very focused head voice, but nothing changes in the tension or configuration. At least that's what it feels like.

Well, we were talking about the folds and using fry to keep them together on the higher range correct?

By tension, I mean tension on the folds, if we go higher in pitch, they will be under more tension, and that's what makes the pitch higher to begin with. We do not necessarily feel it (yet to find someone who does to be honest), we just have the result of pitch change. Would you agree with this?

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By tension, I mean tension on the folds, if we go higher in pitch, they will be under more tension, and that's what makes the pitch higher to begin with. We do not necessarily feel it (yet to find someone who does to be honest), we just have the result of pitch change. Would you agree with this?

Actually I feel something similar to a raising larynx although the larynx doesn't move at all. But it might be just some of the intrinsic muscles tensing? Digastrics are relaxed.

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Well in the end what I wanted to arrive at is that the larynx will need to elevate a bit. Does not have to be much. Which is why, in my opinon, training with covering is a good, but really not a smart idea to try alone, as the postures used will cause a tendancy to lower the larynx.

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I think Felipe is spot on on this. Cuperto is a very good tool to excercise transition into the high range, but it definitely has the danger of placing the larynx too low.

Unfortunately there is not really an "all-in-one"-excercise (or at least I don't know it). For the thing that most people consider "full voice" it is indeed required to allow the larynx to rise a bit at cerain points in pitch, while at the same time it is neccessary to lower the larynx at certain points in pitch.

What a lot of singers do is something like neutral larynx for the low notes, then a little bit lowered larynx through the passaggio, where the voice has a tendency to overcompress. After that a little bit raised larynx in the high range, where the larynx has a tendency to undercompress, especially within M2 at the top.

Most excercises I know don't drive your larynx through all that stuff. Cuperto is more of a lowered larynx excercise, Quack mode for example is a high larynx excercise, and most of the semi-occluded phonations (humming, lip-bubbles etc.) induce a neutral larynx setup, although they can be also performed with high or low larynx if you know how to do it, but the typical tendency is neutral larynx.

Many programs have a certain "path" of vowel modifications through the passaggio which drive you through this larynx positioning, but these excercises are always kind of advanced.

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Would vocal fry not be utilizing a thicker mass during phonation? I'm curious about the thin edges. I've always vocalized in a very "massy" way, and I've freed up my voice tremendously doing so. I feel like playing around in falsetto/falsettone/reinforcefalsetto/headvoice has probably helped my high notes in some way, but not really sure how. I'm almost positive the reason I have so much trouble going into the High B and High C is because I am using too much mass in there, but can't really coordinate it with less. What I want to do is strengthen these "thin edges" and smoothly move into this "less massy" phonation to obatain the High B and High C. I feel like the way I'm singing my high notes works very well up to maybe a high A, and from the Bb onwards I need to figure out how to coordinate a less massy phonation. Btw, the "cuperto" video explains it pretty well, but I feel like that may be a tricky thing that needs to be worked with someone who knows how to use it. Any thoughts, suggestions, explanations? Thank you for your responses!

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this 'cuperto' that is new to you guys is the same thing all the other programs use. Its a small falsetto voice not airy,(maybe at first) sls, ss,free voice and a few others foo goo goo goo working top down or gee low larynx small tiny connection.get a hold of me Robo i'll show you 10 different ways to practice this. Keeping a small mouth like oo lips and inside you are thinking big 'awe" while producing puppy like whimper or small hooty owl sound. I have been doing chromatic versions of this since I began singing, on oo ee ah. I usually start about Ab4 and work down never giving up on the falsetto feeling and then work up as high as i can go. sometimes up to whistle.

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