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Head voice or falsetto?

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David_kylie
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Ok so ive been trying to find my head voice...

This little clip is showing a run from c5 down...bassically idk if its head voice or falsetto.... it sounds like falssetto to me but i feel a bit different doing it this way so idk...

https://app.box.com/s/yhndlna5axtxbd3m9p5p

Thanks

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It depends on what you define as falsetto and headvoice? But generally your top notes are falsetto and then you switch to headvoice on your way down and end in chestvoice.

Or more specifically you use M2 on the top notes and then switch to M1 on the way down.

Note: M = Vibratory Mechanism.

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Well, technically you are doing the right things. The top notes has to be M2 (falsetto), it's the transition point that is tricky (M2>M1 or falsetto>headvoice). A good rule of thumb is to switch before A4 on your way down otherwise it becomes progressively harder to have a smooth transition.

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Well, technically you are doing the right things. The top notes has to be M2 (falsetto), it's the transition point that is tricky (M2>M1 or falsetto>headvoice). A good rule of thumb is to switch before A4 on your way down otherwise it becomes progressively harder to have a smooth transition.

by that you mean switch above A4 correct?

Wanted to clarify for him

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Well my role model in singing is bruce dickinson and i am aware ill never be able to belt E5 like him but currently in full voice i can reach A4 and i had no formal training before but i am saving up for 4 pillars of singing....hopefully ill be able to extend my range at least up to D5....i play guitar (and just took up piano for ease of training my vocals) so i am quite pitch aware but i dont know seems like a looong way but im willing to go on that journey since singing is my main passion....

Btw would you say my transition's were decent....i know they are not good but at least if im going in right direction

Also i dont like the sound of falsetto...i kinda dont want to sound that way :P

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@David

You are definitely on the right track. Don't get confused about "falsetto". It's merely a vocal fold coordination (M2), and in the high range it is necessary! Remember that! Add some adduction (compression) to "falsetto" in the high range and you'll get a full sound like Dickinson.

Your transitions were fine, just do it higher on the way down (above A4) and they'll be completely smooth and inaudible.

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@David

You are definitely on the right track. Don't get confused about "falsetto". It's merely a vocal fold coordination (M2), and in the high range it is necessary! Remember that! Add some adduction (compression) to "falsetto" in the high range and you'll get a full sound like Dickinson.

Your transitions were fine, just do it higher on the way down (above A4) and they'll be completely smooth and inaudible.

Yea i was talking about falsetto in terms of dissconected airy sound..thats what i dont like

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i always tought falssetto is a bad thing in rock metal singing (accept for those high screams)...and that bassically if u add compression and adduction to folds in falsetto you would just get to head voice... mercyfull fate and king diamond comes to mind...i dont like it haha..... GRANDMAAAAAAAAAAAA

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Well, then you need to change your point of view about falsetto. :)

By the way, that's why I like to use the (M1-M2), because they avoid the "stigma" you are talking about.

NOTE: I'm a little curious as to when you say that an adducted "falsetto" becomes a "headvoice"?? (though it actually just proves my point)??

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ill try to explain...my understanding of Lunte's vibratory mechs is...that M0 is vocal fry...M1 chest M2 head and M3 whistle registers...falsetto is not listed there as i dont actually consider it viable in singing...

Also about the adduction...i see falsetto as no vocal cord coordination per se...just fully open chords shooting air like crazy..so when u add compression and close it down u get a full conected voice which in higher frequencies would be head voice or M2 and in lower registers chest M1...one thing to add to the point is that when u go lower from a higher note in falsetto (from lets say A4 to D2 for example) the sound is extremely breathy and it transferes to chest in a matter that extremelly obvoius...

Bassically up to E4/G4 (passagio) i would consider using M1 or chest, and from that point on M2 or head voice...also i dont think falsetto has any resonance...chest and head voice M 1 and 2 u can feel obvoius vibration in chest and head respectivelly whereas when u are ussing falsetto u dont actually feel any resonant energy..

Thats my take on falsetto and how i understand it...if im wrong i would really like to be coreccted since i dont really want to know the wrong stuff :))

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...one thing to add to the point is that when u go lower from a higher note in falsetto (from lets say A4 to D2 for example) the sound is extremely breathy and it transferes to chest in a matter that extremelly obvoius...

Smooth that lower transition out by backing off the volume when you go lower. A lot of people will have the noticable flip or switch because they go back into chest voice at full volume. Basically, look at going lower as slowing down, including volume.

Falsetto is just another tool, not something to be hated or avoided, just something to be used when necessary.

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David you got the right idea, getting a program like pillars sure will help. It helped alot for me, i used to be very similar to you wanted that highend rockers range like Bruce and similar singers.

It takes alot of Work but it's perfectly doable if you put in the time.

So thats my tips

1. Get a good program and just grind it, dont focus to much about terminology but more on the actual doing.

2. Sing songs, this just as important as getting on a training routine. Sing 3 easy songs aday and two thats alittle more challenging. Thats whats really gonna improve your singing.

3. You got alot of good tips and insights from two really powerfull singers/coaches (Martin,Daniel) they can do everything you ask for and then some:) so listen and Soak up as much as you can. For instance i know Daniel has alot of good videos up on youtube, you should check those out

Cheers :)

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The lower you transition into M2, the smaller your avaiable dynamic range will be.

For the kind of repertoire you want, a low transition into M2 (bellow C5), is not really the best way to approach. In my opinion, even if you want to use something else, you should learn how to fully control M1 anyways.

Hope it helps!

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The lower you transition into M2, the smaller your avaiable dynamic range will be.

For the kind of repertoire you want, a low transition into M2 (bellow C5), is not really the best way to approach. In my opinion, even if you want to use something else, you should learn how to fully control M1 anyways.

Hope it helps!

Not only does it help but i really want to be able to belt at least to d5... i really like the chest sound up around the c5 and thats what im going for if possible

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@David

Thank you for your elaboration. This brings me back to my initial statement in regards to the definition of falsetto and headvoice.

Technically or scientifically, falsetto is the same as M2. The male headvoice and chestvoice is the same as M1.

Roberts definition in regards to M2 being headvoice actually only applies to the female voice.

So in any way when you are using M2 you are using falsetto.

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david,

all great advice was given, and i'm another singer who knows what you're after. unless i'm wrong, you want to be able to sing way up (past passagio, or generally above d4) with adduction (not disconnecting, not switching.)

one, connected, resonant voice from top to bottom

right?

to be able to do that (and consistently) as a d.i.y.er you are going to have to work really hard and do things like begin with the very basics.

get to work on how you take in and expel breath for singing. it all begins with the breath. get with a teacher if you can and make sure you nail down how to breathe for singing.

i.m.o., this is where you start. letting in a quiet breath, and learning how to manage exhalation.

at 11 seconds (i may be wrong) i "hear" your shoulders raising and your breath impeded on the inhale. i know you want to get to the good stuff, but begin with a foundation. get the engine right.

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david,

all great advice was given, and i'm another singer who knows what you're after. unless i'm wrong, you want to be able to sing way up (past passagio, or generally above d4) with adduction (not disconnecting, not switching.)

one, connected, resonant voice from top to bottom

right?

to be able to do that (and consistently) as a d.i.y.er you are going to have to work really hard and do things like begin with the very basics.

get to work on how you take in and expel breath for singing. it all begins with the breath. get with a teacher if you can and make sure you nail down how to breathe for singing.

i.m.o., this is where you start. letting in a quiet breath, and learning how to manage exhalation.

at 11 seconds (i may be wrong) i "hear" your shoulders raising and your breath impeded on the inhale. i know you want to get to the good stuff, but begin with a foundation. get the engine right.

I disagree don't worry about the breath to much or you will end up concentrating on what is done naturally therefore making it in natural.;)

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  • Administrator

Thanks for helping Kylie out guys...

Kylie, I like that your getting after this... I have some questions and observations.

1). This scale your sharing with us is not TVS, or from the "Pillars" content. That isn't suggesting that it couldn't be helpful, but my educated guess is that your not training with the content that was provided to you,, are you? In other words, how much time are you hacking away at the piano by yourself, vs, training with the regiment of the recorded vocalize tracks that were provided for you in Pillars? The "Vocal Workouts Solo Piano © & Vocal Workouts Guide Files should be what your spending most of your time on, because it keeps you in line... if you don't do this, your going to get sloppy and cut corners. Frankly, this scale is a bit sloppy, it has a lot of bugs in it... were you to train with the recorded content, a lot of this would be cleaned up.

Dial into the TVS Training Routine content... how much of the actual training routine that I have laid for you are you training? Are you working The Foundation Building Routine? Are you doing the nasal consonants warm ups? Are you practicing the 8 specialized onsets and understanding what they are, how and when to use them? And... are you working the onsets and sirens?

2). Also, your vowels are weird. At best, they are confused... what vowels are you really trying to do here? I would like to hear you stick with "eh, ae (fat cat), Ah and Uh" in the beginning. While the narrowed "ee" and "oo" are great for building strength, not sure your really ready for those narrowed vowels. Bro, get the more open vowels mastered first... in the beginning, just a simple "eh <> ae (fat cat)" formula, with really good onsets is all you need until you get on your feet. Are you using the x/y intercept graph, vowel modification formulas in the back of the book in the training routines? Please use these...

2). Bruce Dickinson.. you and I have that in common... I grew up listening to him and he was a big influence on me but listen... that is some hella belting... I agree, you can do it, but you are going to have to build a lot of musculature and coordination to do it. Having said that... you need to work on the following onsets to help you down that path:

- Dampen & Release

- Quack & Release

- Attack & Release (The Call" onset) - Especially this one... when you get strong enough for it.

3). Martin suggested that you get some twang going in your head voice... yes. But it seems your already doing that more or less. What he didn't tell you is, I would like to make sure your getting your larynx dampened as well. Twang, without larynx manipulation to tune the formant and amplify the fatter harmonics will leave you sounding thin and possibly like a choking duck. You have to have the brighter harmonics AND the rounder ones at the same time.

Larynx dampening and tuning your formant all are developed in The Foundation Building Routine, in Module 1... and when training the onsets.

Lastly, if you can take private lessons with me, do it... it seems to me you need some guidance to really get into your stride. Lets harness your enthusiasm for what your doing into efficient and productive practice sessions.

Here is an unpublished demonstration of "Onsets & Melodic 5th Sirens" from "The Four Pillars of Singing". There is a new, updated version of this soon to be published in the product, so I don't mind too much sharing this on the forum. Its older content, about a year old. But I want you to watch this.. notice the dampen & release onsets and a smooth, controlled siren that goes through the passaggio with a steady, consistent larynx, embouchure, and decent "eh < > ae" & "eh < > uh" vowel modifications.

Robert Lunte - Onsets & Melodic 5th Sirens:

Train the PROGRAM! :cool:

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Guys if i had "Pillars" i would use the heck out of it..but i dont have it...and im currently in the proccess of saving money for it...im preety close and will get it by the end of the month thats for sure...these scales are just something i do right now without any proper training....i just do some stuff that i pick up from internet which so far helped me to get solid chesty A4 as oppossed to the F4 which was my top 3-4 weeks ago...

When i get the 4PoS i plan on making before/after thread and really focus on it and post here regurarly to show my gains and to see if i need to fix something and stuff like that... i even asked my friend if i can use his place that he uses for band rehearsal that has PA system so i can practice in peace :))

Btw thanks to everyone here you have been a huge help and im sure u will help me alot more on my path..

Also Robert i will deffinately get some skype lessons...my plan is to work with pillars at least a month (january~ or february~) and then after i get acquainted with the book and the programm do a skype lesson every once in a while to keep on the right track

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