"Applying cry" and "establishing a hold" ?

[The Scientist]

Ok,

all CVT supporters right there, I need some help...

I bought Complete Vocal technique, and I'm not sure I understand two terms:

1) first one is 'cry' - how do you apply cry to singing? Can someone give me some examples on youtube where I can hear some people add cry to their voice, so that I can understand better. And also is 'cry' same as 'twang'?

2) second one is 'hold' - how do you establish a hold to your voice.

I have CVT book and I read descriptions but I'm not sure I understand this very good.

I have problem that I usually sing too much pushing my chest voice and I understand that I should add some cry to go from 'overdrive' which is what I think I mostly use, to 'curbing' which I think I would like to learn now.

Can someone help?

Tnx,

Nikola

[jonpall]

To me, Cry and Hold are the same thing. Moaning would also be the same thing. It's not the same as twang, though.

[VideoHere]

Ok,

all CVT supporters right there, I need some help...

I bought Complete Vocal technique, and I'm not sure I understand two terms:

1) first one is 'cry' - how do you apply cry to singing? Can someone give me some examples on youtube where I can hear some people add cry to their voice, so that I can understand better. And also is 'cry' same as 'twang'?

2) second one is 'hold' - how do you establish a hold to your voice.

I have CVT book and I read descriptions but I'm not sure I understand this very good.

I have problem that I usually sing too much pushing my chest voice and I understand that I should add some cry to go from 'overdrive' which is what I think I mostly use, to 'curbing' which I think I would like to learn now.

Can someone help?

Tnx,

Nikola

i can offer you a cry in a vocal exercise...would that help?

[Matt]

Havent sung for quite a while so Im really clogged up, but something like this. the first two sirens have a slight plaintive whine in them, the 3rd one is without the whine/cry and I seriously just couldnt get anywhere with it. Thats not faking, thats my voice just getting completely jammed when I try to sing without a little sad cry in it, though to be fair, the difference would perhaps not be so bad if I was in better singing shape; or perhaps back before I knew about crying, I would have just shouted my way through:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzNGyGxu9oM

Im rubbish at twang, I think Video Bob can help you out better there.

I dont know if you're in to Dio, but he does a nice example of crying in Neon Knights, right from the first sentence: 'Oh no, here it comes again', also the 'before' at 0:20, 'again' at 0:34, 'circles and rings' at 1:10, 'phantom figures freed forever' at 1:40 and 'jackals of the street' at 2:51 are nice examples. Actually, most of the vocals on that track are a good example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTgj0KUpGhU&feature=search

[Matt]

On a side note, Im more into speech level singing and I learned to cry without even realizing it by pretending to speak to my mother. To get higher I would say things like: "Oh come on mum", "Oh look, I really havent got a clue mum" etc. Later I realized that these kinds of sentences were helping me put a crying note in there subconsciously because those are the kinds of things I say to her when she gets a little too naggy for me and I complain about it lol

[ronws]

Bless you, Matt. For the anecdote. And for the Dio. I likes me some Dio.

[akarawd]

i can offer you a cry in a vocal exercise...would that help?

The question wasn't addressed to me but I'd love to hear the exercise.

[Anders Moberg]

Hi friends! I use cry on my song "Where The Shadows Have No Name". Check out my player track 2... cry starts at 0:15...

Cheers!

http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profile/AndersMoberg

[akarawd]

Hi friends! I use cry on my song "Where The Shadows Have No Name". Check out my player track 2... cry starts at 0:15...

Cheers!

http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profile/AndersMoberg

Cry at 00:15 adds a great deal of emotion, your example helps , thanks.

PS. Already a fan of your voice

[Sykotix]

Wow, excellent voice Anders.

[VideoHere]

The question wasn't addressed to me but I'd love to hear the exercise.

here you go.

this is a great exercise for numerous reasons.

please note that if you did this for the first time, you may be a little sore the next day. also, take it up as high as you can.

http://www.box.net/shared/ao40dgvbl7

[jonpall]

Bob, I would get someone experienced to check this vocal file of yours, like Martin or Steven Fraser or someone like that. I just have the feeling your doing something incorrectly in those exercises. Maybe you're overdoing the hold or thinking that all vowels can be produced high up in your range, I don't know. Don't get me wrong - I think you're such a great singer and I really like your voice. But I think it's great that you posted those exercises of yours because something just tells me that you're doing them slightly incorrectly. I really hope you're not offended by this, but I think that by posting examples of you doing vocal exercises, fairly regularly, will help you a lot - as it does to everyone. Being very far from perfect myself, I feel that I gain a lot by letting vocal experts hear my voice every now and then. Cheers, man! :)

[jonpall]

If I'm wrong in my assumption or maybe you were only trying to show the hold or something, i.e. not doing the exercise the way you normally do it, then I apologize, man :)

[VideoHere]

If I'm wrong in my assumption or maybe you were only trying to show the hold or something, i.e. not doing the exercise the way you normally do it, then I apologize, man

jonpall,

not to worry. i'm not offended at all. i'm here to learn and grow just like everyone else.

it's a intense version of the standard goog/gug variety that i picked up from a roger love cd. i'm pretty sure i'm doing it according to his cd example, but maybe i was too close to the mic or phonated too strongly?

sure, folks...feel free to comment or correct me anytime.....i love the workout i get in the muscles under the chin.

[akarawd]

here you go.

this is a great exercise for numerous reasons.

please note that if you did this for the first time, you may be a little sore the next day. also, take it up as high as you can.

http://www.box.net/shared/ao40dgvbl7

Thanks a bunch Videohere, this helps immensely it's very clearly demonstrated + now I hear the correct pronunciation of the goog & gug which I've added in my daily work out.

[VideoHere]

Thanks a bunch Videohere, this helps immensely it's very clearly demonstrated + now I hear the correct pronunciation of the goog & gug which I've added in my daily work out.

glad to help.

but please remember that was an intense version of the exercise.

start with the basic "goog" and "gugg"

points to remember:

don't get chesty or louder as you transition

keep the literal pronunciation "goog" as "look" "gugg" as in "plug"

this is one crazy thing about this forum...here i am helping out a singer with a basc exercise who nails beautiful full voiced e5's.......lol!!!!!

so my friend, what do you do to hit those soaring e5's?

[akarawd]

glad to help.

but please remember that was an intense version of the exercise.

start with the basic "goog" and "gugg"

points to remember:

don't get chesty or louder as you transition

keep the literal pronunciation "goog" as "look" "gugg" as in "plug"

this is one crazy thing about this forum...here i am helping out a singer with a basc exercise who nails beautiful full voiced e5's.......lol!!!!!

so my friend, what do you do to hit those soaring e5's?

oh just take a deep breath, squeeze your b***s and go for it lol

I'm only kidding, it's the light head voice (or whatever people call it) reinforced with good breath support (in the covering thread I did use a bit of covering).

At least that's how much I can explain it - I don't think falsetto , I think AAAH full voice but it starts as I said.

To be honest I've never been too particular about them ; the more you practice them the more they sound good.

It's the rest of the voice that had me worried - that's why googin' is so helpful - it's given me hope 'cause I hear my voice "bridging" again.

Maybe we need to open a new thread about high notes and see if with help of experts and other singers we can clear things up.

My apologies to The Scientist for interfering.

[VideoHere]

oh just take a deep breath, squeeze your b***s and go for it lol

I'm only kidding, it's the light head voice (or whatever people call it) reinforced with good breath support (in the covering thread I did use a bit of covering).

At least that's how much I can explain it - I don't think falsetto , I think AAAH full voice but it starts as I said.

To be honest I've never been too particular about them ; the more you practice them the more they sound good.

It's the rest of the voice that had me worried - that's why googin' is so helpful - it's given me hope 'cause I hear my voice "bridging" again.

Maybe we need to open a new thread about high notes and see if with help of experts and other singers we can clear things up.

My apologies to The Scientist for interfering.

hymm, you see with me i can hit really ringing powerful chesty head notes, but currently just up to c5 and still not to my satisfaction yet.

on a scale of 1 to 10, how loud were they?

sorry for all the questions.

[akarawd]

hymm, you see with me i can hit really ringing powerful chesty head notes, but currently just up to c5 and still not to my satisfaction yet.

on a scale of 1 to 10, how loud were they?

sorry for all the questions.

No problem at all - wanna start a new thread and take it there ? I'd be happy to see what other people do.

In the recording the e5 was really loud - no pushing.

So if 10 is screaming your lungs out in a ball game, I'd say 7-8.

It's perfectly feasible in any volume, but at a lower volume it'd sound weird to say the least.

[VideoHere]

No problem at all - wanna start a new thread and take it there ? I'd be happy to see what other people do.

In the recording the e5 was really loud - no pushing.

So if 10 is screaming your lungs out in a ball game, I'd say 7-8.

It's perfectly feasible in any volume, but at a lower volume it'd sound weird to say the least.

sure! post a new topic!

[akarawd]

sure! post a new topic!

High Notes : http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/themodernvocalist/viewtopic.php?id=1116

[jonpall]

Bob, watch out for one thing regarding the volume - those balls to the walls E5's of akarawd and indead any good rock tenor - the volume comes from the TWANG, NOT an increase in the vocal fold thickness. In other words, if you listen carefully, the underlying tone is thin rather than thick - no pulling chest, but with the treble frequencies magnified a LOT by the twang. That way you can do it and not hurt your throat. Don't think that you HAVE to increase the volume, really. It increases BY ITSELF when you increase twang as you go up in pitch. Also, if you don't forget that your chest should stay still during sung notes, you'll notice that your abs will start to work much harder, all by themselves, when you hit an E5. That's your support working and in my experience the support suddenly increases a lot just before that E5. Hope this helps.

[akarawd]

Bob, watch out for one thing regarding the volume - those balls to the walls E5's of akarawd and indead any good rock tenor - the volume comes from the TWANG, NOT an increase in the vocal fold thickness. In other words, if you listen carefully, the underlying tone is thin rather than thick - no pulling chest, but with the treble frequencies magnified a LOT by the twang. That way you can do it and not hurt your throat. Don't think that you HAVE to increase the volume, really. It increases BY ITSELF when you increase twang as you go up in pitch. Also, if you don't forget that your chest should stay still during sung notes, you'll notice that your abs will start to work much harder, all by themselves, when you hit an E5. That's your support working and in my experience the support suddenly increases a lot just before that E5. Hope this helps.

So right - my apologies Videohere - saying "no pushing" was vague.

[VideoHere]

Bob, watch out for one thing regarding the volume - those balls to the walls E5's of akarawd and indead any good rock tenor - the volume comes from the TWANG, NOT an increase in the vocal fold thickness. In other words, if you listen carefully, the underlying tone is thin rather than thick - no pulling chest, but with the treble frequencies magnified a LOT by the twang. That way you can do it and not hurt your throat. Don't think that you HAVE to increase the volume, really. It increases BY ITSELF when you increase twang as you go up in pitch. Also, if you don't forget that your chest should stay still during sung notes, you'll notice that your abs will start to work much harder, all by themselves, when you hit an E5. That's your support working and in my experience the support suddenly increases a lot just before that E5. Hope this helps.

thanks jonpall, i agree with you on this, but i apprecaite that you're watching out for me!

the only thing i have come to realize is the tremendous advantages to using twang. i may have used it before without even knowing it, before i ever embarked on vocal study.

now that i'm getting a handle on it...... it is a f*&^%$* amazing skill and advantage.

[Quincy]

Man that is exactly how I feel...about twang. Really lubes up the voice production making it so much easier. I'm still experimenting like crazy with all the different degrees of twang with all the different sounds (vowels). This ought to be a founding principle in ANY vocal pedagogy... oh it is, in CVT. :D