How to initiate Distortion and/or Rattle

[akarawd]

I am a beginner in this and by no means do I qualify to post a tutorial - in fact I still slip from on effect to the other.

However, I am writing this with the hope that others will post their own findings - beginners or advanced -

and thus create threads that might be of help to all of us regarding each effect in separate.

Do not try to sing these clips unless you know how to warm up & down and have drunk several glasses of warm water.

If you feel any kind of strain or pain, stop what you're doing, warm down and start over only when the strain/pain has stopped -

I don't feel any pain or strain so please be reasonable.

1. The exercise that initiated distortion/rattle for me :

- The following paragraph has been mostly copy/pasted from other posts -

What I practiced on was ex.210 from the cvt book. I did that for about a week - always using warm ups&downs.

In no way have I tamed the noise completely myself - I am still trying.

Slowly I added vowels to the noise and stopped if I ever felt any kind of strain or tickling sensation. By stopped I mean I kept on doing warm down&up exercises.

Applying twang or raising the larynx (moving the larynx is sth I've spent years of practice on) helped immensely.

When doing the "rattle" the uvula vibrates fast and feels like there's phlegm at the back of the throat.

"Distortion" - if that's what it is I'm doing - feels a bit tighter but none of them hurt the voice or the rest of the throat - in fact they seem to benefit my singing voice.

The exercise I'm referring to is basically a sustained " CH " sound - C as in Carbon and H as in Harrods - much like in the german language as Ronws suggested and

the noise is placed in the back of the tongue.

This is what the exercise sounded like (Thanks Martin for granting me permission for this)

http://www.box.net/shared/a491525rou

Next I've added clips demonstrating the transition from clean voice to noise.

2. Clip demonstrating a clean vowel at first, then added twang, then turning into full dist/rattle noise and back in the low part of the voice.

I've used full noise to exaggerate the effect and make it understood.

http://www.box.net/shared/uk6u3ayosx

3. Clip demonstrating a slide of a clean vowel at first, then added twang, then turning into full dist/rattle noise in the low to mid part of the voice.

I've used full noise to exaggerate the effect and make it understood.

http://www.box.net/shared/jarl3d8i7o

4. Clips demonstrating what dist/rattle sounds like when used in abundance -

a sound I do not find pleasing as I like the noise when used minimally.

Without music : http://www.box.net/shared/ny4vbdf19b

With music : http://www.box.net/shared/u2jbakmsgv

Same music but a distortion that hurts : http://www.box.net/shared/v48gbr4yb0

This brings a burning sensation to the throat and renders the singing voice useless.

No amount of warm up&down or hydration changes the fact that it's bad practice -

I have stopped doing this for over a year and my voice has strengthened immensely.

5. Clip demonstrating the transition from clean to rattle using a small part of the above sample (with vowels not just full noise like in clips #2 & #3).

http://www.box.net/shared/pnfolvj1tu

6. Clip demonstrating dist/rattle only in the high part of the voice - used minimally this time :

http://www.box.net/shared/gj13so24pp

EDIT 1 : I got an answer from my cvi teacher about the following halford-resurrection sing along - it's not distortion, it's rattle in neutral with lots of twang and no air - so rattle in mln.

Now we have a reference :

http://www.box.net/shared/y1pa7utz02

Best,

Thanos

PS1. My apologies if all clips allude to metal music, I sincerely hope to see examples for other kinds of music.

PS2. Please check the above post and thread for edits and updates as new info is gathered by experts and members of this forum.

[VideoHere]

I am a beginner in this and by no means do I qualify to post a tutorial - in fact I still slip from rattle to distortion.

However, I am writing this with the hope that others will post their own findings - beginners or advanced -

and thus create threads that might be of help to all of us regarding each effect in separate.

Do not try to sing these clips unless you know how to warm up & down and have drunk several glasses of warm water.

If you feel any kind of strain or pain, stop what you're doing, warm down and start over only when the strain/pain has stopped -

I don't feel any pain or strain so please be reasonable.

1. The exercise that initiated distortion/rattle for me :

- The following paragraph has been mostly copy/pasted from other posts -

What I practiced on was ex.210 from the cvt book. I did that for about a week - always using warm ups&downs.

In no way have I tamed the noise completely myself - I am still trying.

Slowly I added vowels to the noise and stopped if I ever felt any kind of strain or tickling sensation. By stopped I mean I kept on doing warm down&up exercises.

Applying twang or raising the larynx (moving the larynx is sth I've spent years of practice on) helped immensely.

When doing the "rattle" the uvula vibrates fast and feels like there's phlegm at the back of the throat.

"Distortion" - if that's what it is I'm doing - feels a bit tighter but none of them hurt the voice or the rest of the throat - in fact they seem to benefit my singing voice.

The exercise I'm referring to is basically a sustained " CH " sound - C as in Carbon and H as in Harrods - much like in the german language as Ronws suggested and

the noise is placed in the back of the tongue.

This is what the exercise sounded like (Thanks Martin for granting me permission for this)

http://www.box.net/shared/a491525rou

Next I've added clips demonstrating the transition from clean voice to noise.

2. Clip demonstrating a clean vowel at first, then added twang, then turning into full dist/rattle noise and back in the low part of the voice.

I've used full noise to exaggerate the effect and make it understood.

http://www.box.net/shared/uk6u3ayosx

3. Clip demonstrating a slide of a clean vowel at first, then added twang, then turning into full dist/rattle noise in the low to mid part of the voice.

I've used full noise to exaggerate the effect and make it understood.

http://www.box.net/shared/jarl3d8i7o

4. Clips demonstrating what dist/rattle sounds like when used in abundance -

a sound I do not find pleasing as I like the noise when used minimally.

Without music : http://www.box.net/shared/ny4vbdf19b

With music : http://www.box.net/shared/u2jbakmsgv

Same music but a distortion that hurts : http://www.box.net/shared/v48gbr4yb0

This brings a burning sensation to the throat and renders the singing voice useless.

No amount of warm up&down or hydration changes the fact that it's bad practice -

I have stopped doing this for over a year and my voice has strengthened immensely.

5. Clip demonstrating the transition from clean to dist using a small part of the above sample (with vowels not just full noise like in clips #2 & #3).

http://www.box.net/shared/pnfolvj1tu

6. Clip demonstrating dist/rattle only in the high part of the voice - used minimally this time :

http://www.box.net/shared/gj13so24pp

Best,

Thanos

PS. My apologies if all clips allude to metal music, I sincerely hope to see examples for other kinds of music.

the one with the vibrating uvula ("ch" distortion) i can acheive by acting as if i'm gargling without using mouthwash.

here's a post i did where i worked to a very severe twang sound (towards the end)...no pain, but a hell of a lot of support to grind it and a relaxed throat to grab a little vibrato. (my apologies to those who have heard it already.)

http://www.box.net/shared/3yxopvvvgb

[akarawd]

the one with the vibrating uvula ("ch" distortion) i can acheive by acting as if i'm gargling without using mouthwash.

here's a post i did where i worked to a very severe twang sound (towards the end)...no pain, but a hell of a lot of support to grind it and a relaxed throat to grab a little vibrato. (my apologies to those who have heard it already.)

http://www.box.net/shared/3yxopvvvgb

Just heard it, I clearly hear the effect in the end there and you're right about the "gargling without using mouthwash" sensation.

[VideoHere]

Just heard it, I clearly hear the effect in the end there and you're right about the "gargling without using mouthwash" sensation.

if you're new to the forum, lou gramm vocals are the kind i'm in awe of. chris cornell, paul rodgers, etc.

not really a heavy metal kind of guy.

[akarawd]

if you're new to the forum, lou gramm vocals are the kind i'm in awe of. chris cornell, paul rodgers, etc.

not really a heavy metal kind of guy.

They're some of my favs too

If sbd can do any of the above - I listened to cornell's j.c.pose a cappella and it's phenomenal -

or any other kind of effect please post your findings.

I know some people on this forum have awesome voices and can apply rasp at will, we're all waiting to learn

from you. I'd be great if you showed us sounds that initiate these effects.

[Jens]

http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/themodernvocalist/viewtopic.php?id=1023

;)

[akarawd]

http://www.punbb-hosting.com/forums/the … hp?id=1023

Thanks for pointing that out Jens, I just read the entire post - can you please

re-post your example from there as both links are down ? It seems from

the readers' reactions it was sth really important.

Thanks in advance

[Jens]

Yeah ofc i just hate that it gets taken down so quick

http://www.filedropper.com/distortion

[ronws]

Thanks for the ch example. It was just as I was thinking. Though the sung pronunciation was a little harder or harsher than how I speak it in german. But the effect is nearly the same. And I think it is problematic in that it is partially closing off the escape of air, which increases air pressure behind it. When I am singing, especially high notes, I note that my tongue is relaxed and maybe slightly raised, which seems to support the resonance chamber, even with a dropped jaw. Placing the tongue higher to achieve ch can be done with the loss of some tone, which is, I guess, a trade-off.

The other distortion I have used to some success, though not all the time, is fry. Which may have more to due with onset rather than rattles generated after the note is phonated. In fact, in memory, I think my example of the song "Better" by Guns and Roses uses some fry in the full voice part of the example. It was initially my example of the difference between falsetto timbre and full voice in the same range near the same notes. And I think I used fry because that is what it sounded like Axl Rose was doing in the original version.

I like these sound effects. Some I can do, some I can't. And I find myself continuously seeking a purer tone, such as earlier Tate, early Halford, later Dickinson. Then I throw myself off with a gritty song, like "I Remember You." My comedy of errors.:)

[akarawd]

Yeah ofc i just hate that it gets taken down so quick

http://www.filedropper.com/distortion

This is excellent Jens, you've done an amazing job - I've listened to it really carefully and I'd like to ask

a) you to explain in detail the sound you produce at 02:32-02:39. If you could post some clips where you initiate the sound and/or transition slowly from clean (different pitches and vowels maybe?) it'd be awesome.

One little thing - to be able to understand exactly how you do it, please see that there's no distortion added in the recording chain or mic.

your permission to upload this on my boxnet etc account and display the link here permanently for all members as I believe it's invaluable information.

Thanks in advance man,

Thanos

[akarawd]

Thanks for the ch example. It was just as I was thinking. Though the sung pronunciation was a little harder or harsher than how I speak it in german. But the effect is nearly the same. And I think it is problematic in that it is partially closing off the escape of air, which increases air pressure behind it. When I am singing, especially high notes, I note that my tongue is relaxed and maybe slightly raised, which seems to support the resonance chamber, even with a dropped jaw. Placing the tongue higher to achieve ch can be done with the loss of some tone, which is, I guess, a trade-off.

The other distortion I have used to some success, though not all the time, is fry. Which may have more to due with onset rather than rattles generated after the note is phonated. In fact, in memory, I think my example of the song "Better" by Guns and Roses uses some fry in the full voice part of the example. It was initially my example of the difference between falsetto timbre and full voice in the same range near the same notes. And I think I used fry because that is what it sounded like Axl Rose was doing in the original version.

I like these sound effects. Some I can do, some I can't. And I find myself continuously seeking a purer tone, such as earlier Tate, early Halford, later Dickinson. Then I throw myself off with a gritty song, like "I Remember You." My comedy of errors.

You're welcome ronws, hopefully people who have mastered vocal fry and/or creaking will start a thread and get lots of info and examples in there.

[Jens]

a) there is almost no digital distortion at that point exept for the veryhighnotes i pulled my mic way down to ensure that, thats why the first clean yeah come out so powerfull cause the mic was set to normal volume.

I use this setupvery much in my recorded tracks, if you feel unsure on how i sound you can always take a peak at those will probably be uploading some new tracks soon

Yeah il record some diffrent settings for you going clean to distortion if you find that helpfull cant do it tonight though.

Some clips i found on my computer

Moving through some of my range in distortion

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23920211/connecting_through_gritt.wav

light twanged setup to distortion

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23920284/twang_to_distortion_oh.wav

you can upload anything that ive uploaded you find intresting :P

[ronws]

Well done, Jens. I was listening with my ear buds and my dog could hear it and started to "huff", which is his sub-vocalised reaction to a new or unrecognized stimulus that he hasn't identified. That is, he is used to me singing high but no one else. Trust me, getting a dog's reaction is not an insult.

[akarawd]

---- All clips on distortion by Jens can be found here : ----

http://www.box.net/shared/pfcnqfy28h

Jens, I'll keep your clips in the link above in an attempt to make sure your work is easily accessible.

Thanks in advance for these and the clips to come - they are very helpful, yes.

I trust others will post their findings too.

[akarawd]

EDIT 1 : I got an answer from my cvi teacher about the following halford-resurrection sing along - it's not distortion, it's rattle in neutral with lots of twang and no air - so rattle in mln.

Now we have a reference :

http://www.box.net/shared/y1pa7utz02

[mtptl]

The subjective part, that assists in *preference* is still a matter of measurable properties in so far as the audible part is concerned. You can quantify all parameters of a speaker and weight it's sufficiency for a given use. However, a speaker suffers far more perceptable variance than what would be present on a phono cartridge. For example: with a speaker one most concern themselves with SPL vs. THD, IMD, frequency response into multiple directions(power response) and resonance behaviour(s). A turntable cartridge should have far less considerations -- being the only purpose to track a cut section of lines on a turning record with as linear response as is possible. I am looking for the specific parameters that makes one cartridge better than another that has similar specifications. Or I wonder if this is the same general placebo-based issue as with most other audiophile issues?

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[kerryadelfred]

THIS IS KERRY AND I LIKE TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SITE

SO PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT IT

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[VideoHere]

THIS IS KERRY AND I LIKE TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SITE

SO PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT IT

what do want to know?

_______________________

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"

[ronws]

The subjective part, that assists in *preference* is still a matter of measurable properties in so far as the audible part is concerned. You can quantify all parameters of a speaker and weight it's sufficiency for a given use. However, a speaker suffers far more perceptable variance than what would be present on a phono cartridge. For example: with a speaker one most concern themselves with SPL vs. THD, IMD, frequency response into multiple directions(power response) and resonance behaviour(s). A turntable cartridge should have far less considerations -- being the only purpose to track a cut section of lines on a turning record with as linear response as is possible. I am looking for the specific parameters that makes one cartridge better than another that has similar specifications. Or I wonder if this is the same general placebo-based issue as with most other audiophile issues?

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How does this relate to the topic at hand?