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Shoulders Movement on Breath

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For every quote unquote rule there are exceptions. I think the majority of great singer have solid fundamentals to one degree or another, whether taught or instinctive from just singing in bands. As far as shoulders raising when inhaling, a good rule of thumb is to think about inhaling like filling a glass of water. You put the glass underneath the faucet and it fill from the bottom up. Meaning for me, if I initiate my breath by filling the upper part of that chest (shallow breathing) and shrugging up the shoulders I'm on a different path. Not the path for me personally or what I teach but again that's not to say people don't shallow breathe and get the desired results. I think for many shoulders raising really comes from filling up with air. When you get a good breath in many times the shoulders will slightly lift. It also depends on your body structure, everyone is different. Also live, shoulder movement can become a part of the drama of singing. My 2 cents, YMMV.

 

The key for me is that it's effortless. In this video everything is open and loose. My shoulder are moving around naturally, actually they drop on a lot of the notes as I engage my core. Again it's all loose and natural. And remember I am dead ass cold, no warm up, had been traveling, no sleep, you name it. Band called out the song and we went. 

Here's how I do it:

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You are a monster! Really crazy voice, very open very powerfull, nice tone(piercing but not whiny) and crazy range :)

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I didn't pay attention to your shoulders, either. I really like that song and wound up getting totally hooked on how the bass player was locked in solid with a groove that would not stop.

Your singing was good, too. That sounded like an afterthought ... sorry, about that though I mean it as a compliment. You was a-rocking and a-rolling and I was grooving on the whole thing.

thanks ron that is sort of the meaning of the thread. you should not be thinking when performing you should be performing.

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  To anyone who saw that last post of mine....Sorry about that, too many pots on the fire. :o

  Dan and James....You guys rock. 

  Ken does seem like he is using way too much musculature in the neck and shoulders but I believe his shoulder twitch is from relaxing the shoulders after he bears down for the torso and back engagement Not from a high chest breath.

The rest may be from "Making it look hard" for effect just like guitar players do. Guitar players will swing that guitar all over the place when playing a lead and there is NO need for it whatsoever. It just looks cool. :)

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You are a monster! Really crazy voice, very open very powerfull, nice tone(piercing but not whiny) and crazy range :)

Thanks Jens. I will tell you that range was earned. When I was a kid I had no range. I wanted to sing like Steve Perry, Rod Stewart, Robert Plant, Bryan Adams etc… Couldn't do it to save my life. I sang stuff like DLR California Girls. All chest. Or falsetto Earth, Wind & Fire. Drilled fundamentals till everyone around me was ready to plot a murder. :)

 

Was warming up this morning and thinking about this thread. While warming up when I am in the zone and relaxed my shoulders do not move at all in inhalation, just sometimes a touch at the end of the inhale and that seems do to the air filling and slightly pouching my chest up.

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All,

The raising of the shoulders during an inhalation is a non-issue for me. Yes, it looks a bit odd, and might be effortful under a heavy costume, but it does not have to negatively affect the Appoggio at all.

The reason the beginning student is taught to not raise the shoulders is to sensitize them to the importance of the diaphragmatic breath, and the expansion of the rib cage that accompanies it. It takes shoulder position and motion, and puts them in the realm of posture for a while, helping to stabilize chest position, which will help lead to appoggio.

All that said, once appoggio has been established, and has been habitualized (think Bjoerling, here), the posture and motions prior to onset have much less importance than those at the moment of onset and during the sustained phrase.

Watching Bjoerling, it's quite noticeable that he raises the shoulders during the inhale. What is more instructive is what he does with them at the moment of onset... They go right into singing position, and stay there.

IMO, what he is doing helps him get the absolute max of breath to do the long phrases has to do, without affecting his technique otherwise.

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All,

The raising of the shoulders during an inhalation is a non-issue for me. Yes, it looks a bit odd, and might be effortful under a heavy costume, but it does not have to negatively affect the Appoggio at all.

The reason the beginning student is taught to not raise the shoulders is to sensitize them to the importance of the diaphragmatic breath, and the expansion of the rib cage that accompanies it. It takes shoulder position and motion, and puts them in the realm of posture for a while, helping to stabilize chest position, which will help lead to appoggio.

All that said, once appoggio has been established, and has been habitualized (think Bjoerling, here), the posture and motions prior to onset have much less importance than those at the moment of onset and during the sustained phrase.

Watching Bjoerling, it's quite noticeable that he raises the shoulders during the inhale. What is more instructive is what he does with them at the moment of onset... They go right into singing position, and stay there.

IMO, what he is doing helps him get the absolute max of breath to do the long phrases has to do, without affecting his technique otherwise.

 

Boom, mudda fuddas! :D

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All,

Quiet down children and listen...

Ha ha, and the equalizer steps in to end the thread lol. All I will say before shutting my mouth, is I did say basically the same thing about jussi somewhere on this thread. Some overly long post. Lips sealed maow:)
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Ha ha, and the equalizer steps in to end the thread lol. All I will say before shutting my mouth, is I did say basically the same thing about jussi somewhere on this thread. Some overly long post. Lips sealed maow:)

"All,

Quiet down children and listen..."

 

In Steven's only post in this thread, he did not say "Quiet down children and listen ..."

 

He is never so presumptuous as to call anyone a child, no matter their behavior. I know because I have been abrasive, at times, I am sure. And he has always responded with respect and he earns and deserves respect, in return.

 

Nor is he trying to "end the thread."

 

But he is a resident expert on singing and it is not because he has been in this forum since nearly the beginning. Not even because he has provide technical consultation to Robert in some of the more technical aspects of 4 Pillars. Nor because of his college education in the pursuit of voice. Not even counting his performances and his continued success in teaching young people engaged in scholastic competitions for singing (if you have a child or young adult singing in UIL and other competitions, you WANT Steven as the teacher,) Or even because is one of the recognized experts with an interview included in the page you could access that has interviews with leading experts, including Titze and others.

 

He rarely comments and when he does, he is right. Every time. At least that has been my experience. 

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Of course i know this ron. I know he is not pompous nor arrogant, he is very free and generious with his knowledge, more so than the high majority of people in his position. It was a joke.....a joke out of respect for someone of insane knowledge and experience such as him.

Tough crowd sheesh

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