VideoHere Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 so folks, if everyone is okay with this, let's have this be our first official reference, go-to source for twang. anything to do with twang gets posted here. how does that sound? any suggestions? maybe we can expand on the title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 Maybe you could re-post your example of twang, the one where you twanged so hard you brought in distortion. Though I think the Paul Lynde example is as good a mnemonic and vocal exercise as any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin15 Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 This thread is just superb ! Regards Martin15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorth Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 I'll channel my inner duck for you when I get home from school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted August 26, 2010 Author Share Posted August 26, 2010 Maybe you could re-post your example of twang, the one where you twanged so hard you brought in distortion. Though I think the Paul Lynde example is as good a mnemonic and vocal exercise as any. well ron, if you insist...lol!!!! remember folks this is an extreme version...there are many "weights" to twank. http://www.box.net/shared/3yxopvvvgb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Steven might correct me if I am inaccurate, which is fine. Twang is a configuration of the pharynx, and therefore, the rest of the air column up to behind the soft palate that supports the resonation of a wide range but most especially the upper parts of range. It allows those who speak in baritone or even bass to sing in tenor. As opposed to some people who, through genetics influencing physiology, have a naturally narrower or smaller resonating space that is already suited to higher notes. Those guys, such as Bon Scott (RIP) or Roger Taylor (drummer for Queen who also happens to sing) could not hit a low note if their lives depended on it. Even so, those guys can utilize twang for, if nothing else, to sharpen a tone or even create distortion. I have noticed that if I am still in twang, I can sing some low notes, at least in baritone, with clarity and power though it feels physically a little different, at times, but I may not be accurately describing what I am doing. But I have felt low notes resonating behind the sinus or "in the mask." I think it has been described that low notes use thick vocal cords and the popular nomenclature is chest voice while high notes use thinned out cords, ala Steven's explanation of the cords being stretched as one might elevate pitch on a guitar string by turning the tuning peg. Which leaves the resonating space, and enough air support to make the cords or folds vibrate at the pitch, to create the note. I think, also, Lunte has expressed a central concentration on developing twang. That is, once that muscle memory has been developed, everything else can tie into it as needs be. Does that sound a bit like Genesis? "In the beginning, there was twang ..." (no irreverence meant it just led to a Monty Python moment in my head.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorth Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 While twang is good for high notes, it's far from the opposite to low notes. Twanging alot and "drilling" yourself down the low register is actually a useful way to increase your low range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I have an example of what I think is a real world use of twang. Useful in the high range, yes, but it still feels like twang descending into baritone. This is the last lyric section and melody from "Rocket Queen" by Guns and Roses from the album, Appetite for Destruction. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8750209/rq%20example.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 29, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 29, 2010 Twang is 1 of 6 original Estillian vocal modes and 1 of 7 TVS vocal modes. Twang is characterized by a contraction of the Aryepiglottic Sphincter, Vocal Fold Closure and narrowing of the epiglottic funnel to amplify frequencies. It is a specific physiological set up or "configuration" that produces a very specific kind of phonation. Twang is utilized in contemporary voice training to help students of singing learn how to: Bridge Better, Eliminate Falsetto mode in the head voice and make the head voice sound like "chesty belts", stabilize belts and generally promote efficient and healthy phonations, especially for singing. Training twang vocal mode at TVS is a big part of what we teach and we're one of the best in world at it, especially applying it to the head voice to extend range and make head tones sound amazing. Here is a video I did on this topic... Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4VnbIezF4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonLaMountain Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Great video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Robert, Please don't make these "faces" (5.26-30 and 7.21-26) when you demonstrate "falsetto" in your movies...you make the sounds seem "underrated" as if other sounds are "better"! "ALL SOUNDS ARE EQUAL" (ESTILL - funny as you mention her)....! And as a vocal coach....you should respect all sounds! just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 30, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2010 Martin, seriously... are you kidding? This must be a joke??? I have always made a point and do so in this video as well, that Falsetto is a very critical vocal mode to master because we have to use it so much in the training. Falsetto mode is important in the training of bridging and learning head placements. Im not a Falsetto hater... ! LOL!!! Im just trying to illustrate with humor how most people dont like the sound Falsetto produces and get a laugh Martin. Its intended to be entertaining as well as informative. You right, we must all strive to be politically correct with our vocal modes! Falsettos' are people too!!?? Maybe one day we'll all have to sing just as much Falsetto as we do Twang so as to not upset the Falsetto's from our vocal mode bigotry! ok, you got to be kidding... right? ... but seriously, Falsetto is critical to your TVS training, but Im not going to use it in my band if thats ok with you... and I dont think you will either Martin. We know your a big advocate of "crunchy" mode or ... whats it called, "curvyswerve" or something? LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Robert, Yes, I'm actually very serious! It's my belief that you actually sometimes forget the falsetto's....don't you think that this is really beautiful: Or this: Or this one: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Robert, I really liked the video. I liked the chatter at the end, giving it that "behind the scenes" feel. Not once did I get a sense that you were dissing falsetto. You were simply trying to illustrate that its a mode and the reason for your illustration is not just accuracy but to show singers that falsetto is not the only mode they can use in their headvoice register or their high range, whereever that may be. I'm just not seeing where you said anything "against" falsetto, and, in fact, you mention using it for timing of bridging and I've also seen where people here will use it to locate a tone they are not used to singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Martin, I consider you to be one of the most helpful people on this forum, a real asset to it and an internet friend, but I must speak up here. How can you ask Robert to show respect to a particular vocal sound when you don't show any respect to Robert? Your post was disrespectful and you kind of shot yourself in the foot there and made yourself look bad rather than him in this case. It's his video and he can say whatever he wants to say. It feels a bit like you watched Robert's clip searching for some minor detail to nitpick at. I agree with Robert - I took the falsetto part as a bit of a joke, like he said. Sure, vocal coaches and singers are sometimes a bit outspoken and passionate about certain techniques. Both of you guys are like that, btw. lol. Let's keep the friendship going on here because this forum is absolutely one of the best, if not the best, vocal forums in the world. I really hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings here, and I AM risking losing goodwill from Martin and even other forum members by making these comments, but really, what kind of a friend (well, an internet friend) would I be if I didn't tell you guys when I think things have gotten a bit out of line? Both of you, Robert and Martin, are awesome in your own way. Peace! With respect, jonpall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 jonpall and ronws, So I did get out of line when I felt that he was "actually making fun of the falsetto"? He made it seem like it's something we don't want to do! I don't care....but if that's the way you see it....fine....I really don't think that I "disrespected" him at all. I pointed it out...that's it A few clarifications... I show the "hollow/whoofy" form of humming as the example of what NOT to do... Listen at what Robert says at 0.35 - 0.43 (it doesn't really sound great!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJyLfrZmDJ4 AND THAT'S MY POINT - WEITHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 30, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2010 Martin, you are really way off base on this... Falsetto is a beautiful phonation to some people and it can be used in some singing and it is. If you listen to my video, I point out, "... Falsetto is not a vocal mode we want to use in our art very often...". I am carefully saying "not very often", because I dont want people to think Im saying "never". Im not... A tasteful use of Falsetto is cool! My point in my presentations is something YOU already know... while Falsetto can be a vocal mode we use sometimes in music... it is not the vocal mode we use most of the time. When people phonate in the head voice, without training, the body defaults to Falsetto and most people dont like the sound. So dont point the finger at me... point it at the human race... there is not one singer I have ever trained with that came into my studio asking me, "... hey Robert, can you help me to sing better falsetto... I want to sound like a girl all the time in my music. Please, please, teach me to sing more hooty-fluty and more like Shirley Temple!"... No... sorry Martin, that just doesnt happen in this life time... maybe thats what they are into in Copenhagen, but no where else Ive seen. So the message is to help people learn how to make a different sound in their headvoice. Its not a judgement on Falsetto, but recognizing that the market of singers dont want that as their only option... including you and me. The Paris video above is just marketing dude... I also am very clear in my point that Falsetto is important in our training at TVS. So Falsetto is really important. If you can phonate a slow ascending siren and land in Falsetto in your head voice FIRST, then you will never learn to do it with twang. Falsetto is critical to the training and we sometimes use it for the art. But for the art, 95% , its twangy-belts and belty-twangs in two registers. End of story, signed, sealed and delivered my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpall Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Well, if you want that piercing rock/metal tenor high scream sound a la Geoff Tate, Axl Rose, David Coverdale, Sebastian Bach or Brian Johnson (some of which use more rasp than others but all have that twangy base sound on their high notes), then it does NOT sound good to use falsetto - to the audience or to the singer himself/herself who is probably in a frustrated attempt to try to nail this type of singing. Also, one's man insult is another man's "pointing out". I think Robert was "pointing out" to people that an airy falsetto ain't that useful for high pitched metal screaming, and not really insulting the falsetto sound or falsetto singers. Also, even if he did - so what, really? That would just be his opinion in an otherwise informative video, whether or not you like his singing or teaching style. And maybe there were no ill intensions behind your words to Robert, Martin, but I can see how Robert was a little bit hurt by those words and felt a bit like he got slapped in the face by surprise. It's so hard to decypher the true meanings behind written text on the internet. Also, don't fight me guys, 'cause I know Jiu Jitsu Cheers, Martin ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 30, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2010 Robert, I really liked the video. I liked the chatter at the end, giving it that "behind the scenes" feel. Not once did I get a sense that you were dissing falsetto. You were simply trying to illustrate that its a mode and the reason for your illustration is not just accuracy but to show singers that falsetto is not the only mode they can use in their headvoice register or their high range, whereever that may be. I'm just not seeing where you said anything "against" falsetto, and, in fact, you mention using it for timing of bridging and I've also seen where people here will use it to locate a tone they are not used to singing. PRECISELY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshual Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Martin when you want to sing in the rock/metal style, the last thing you want is to have your high notes sounding like falsetto, that's all. Just a matter of style and style teaching. And please i think you would be more helpfull with us if you, take the time to make some videos to explain us modes, twang, your vision of singing and how we can reach our goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 30, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2010 Martin, I consider you to be one of the most helpful people on this forum, a real asset to it and an internet friend, but I must speak up here. How can you ask Robert to show respect to a particular vocal sound when you don't show any respect to Robert? Your post was disrespectful and you kind of shot yourself in the foot there and made yourself look bad rather than him in this case. It's his video and he can say whatever he wants to say. It feels a bit like you watched Robert's clip searching for some minor detail to nitpick at. I agree with Robert - I took the falsetto part as a bit of a joke, like he said. Sure, vocal coaches and singers are sometimes a bit outspoken and passionate about certain techniques. Both of you guys are like that, btw. lol. Let's keep the friendship going on here because this forum is absolutely one of the best, if not the best, vocal forums in the world. I really hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings here, and I AM risking losing goodwill from Martin and even other forum members by making these comments, but really, what kind of a friend (well, an internet friend) would I be if I didn't tell you guys when I think things have gotten a bit out of line? Both of you, Robert and Martin, are awesome in your own way. Peace! With respect, jonpall. I dont feel Martin disrespected me, but I do feel that when he watched the video, we was looking for "something I can criticize"... its always been that way for four years. It doesnt matter what I say, how interesting or entertaining the video may be, Martin will find something to pick on with me. It doesnt bother me, its obvious in the video I dont have anything to prove, I know what Im talking about, I can demonstrate my own pedagogy, Im vastly successful with my students and if Martin thinks Im "being mean" to Falsetto, then.... ??? Actually, I dont know... it still seems kinda like a strange point to make when I was very clear about the merits and importance of Falsetto. Had I stood there and said, "Falsetto sucks, you never want to sing in Falsetto", then Martin would be totally right... but I didnt... so ???? Im confused... ? Anyways, there is no doubt that having Martin on this forum is great. He knows what he knows and what he knows, he knows well. And is a great contributor on this forum, regardless if he likes to TRY to pick on me when he gets a chance. I am a fortress of vocal pedagogic metal power... its a CVT thing. They are trained to believe that everyone, other than Cathrine Sadolin, is wrong and so he is trying to find something wrong to pick on. Same thing the SLS guys do all the time. This is what a lot of large vocal organizations do, they train their students to believe that everyone else is wrong... Interesting enough, the new TVS Certified Instructor program is not like that. We are building a team of great voice teachers from around the world and the development of TVS pedagogy will be open to ideas from our certified instructors. Im the first voice coach to develop a certified instructor program that will embrace ideas from other people, other then the founder. www.tvscertifiedinstructor.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted August 30, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 30, 2010 Robert, Please don't make these "faces" (5.26-30 and 7.21-26) when you demonstrate "falsetto" in your movies...you make the sounds seem "underrated" as if other sounds are "better"! "ALL SOUNDS ARE EQUAL" (ESTILL - funny as you mention her)....! And as a vocal coach....you should respect all sounds! just my 2 cents. Jo Estill may think that "all sounds are equal"... but Ill guarantee you this... not to the market of singers. Not to the people that are coming in to take lessons. When it comes to what singers are looking for and what they need most in their singing, its not more of something they can already do and are trying to get rid of... Estill is not about teaching people how to sing. Lots of people think Estill trains singers, it doesnt. Even some Estillians think they are training singers... I tend to disagree. Estill is there to learn about vocal modes and vocal physiology and in that sense, its important for voice teachers... but they provide no vocal workout scales, no routines to train on. They believe that if you can phonate these vocal modes, you can some how apply them to singing and never have to practice on vocal workouts and scales? To train singers, you have to get off your butt, get on your feet and begin phonating these concepts over and over again on scales and workouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Well you guys may be right! Maybe I'm being a little pain in the a.. sometimes. But I just think it's very important that we embrace ALL sounds equally! No hard feelings Robert! Heck I admire what you've done so far! You are a frontier - and maybe that's why I want you to be your best hence critizising you from time to time And just to end this I give you another "falsetto" song which I find very beautiful: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted August 30, 2010 Author Share Posted August 30, 2010 man, you guys are really getting a little too crazy with this. (rob, excellent post..you are one intense, passionate, teacher!!!) (martin, you tell it like it is, but i would learn that "discression is the better part of valor." i am a big fan of for lack of a better word "effeminate" falsetto, mainly because if you can (the secret..."act") a good falsetto voice, it can be one one the "prettiest" yes guys... "prettiest" most beautiful-sounding vocal the human ear can take in. plus if you develop the skill to slide in and out of it, you've really got some skillset. these are some gorgeous examples! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGRyZ4r7_rU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 MAN! That Freddie Mercury....such a darling with a tender voice - and then he turns around and do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZQUVZKrH3I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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