Robert Lunte

What is the most important consideration when training the voice?

Rate this topic

VOCAL TRAINING PRIORITIES  

125 members have voted

  1. 1. What is the most important consideration when training the voice?

    • Training to Bridge the Passaggio
    • Training the Head Voice
    • Training Belt Technique
    • Training Formants and Vowels
    • Training Onsets
    • Training Vocal Twang
    • Warming Up Properly
    • Stop Training and Start Singing


Recommended Posts

    Glad to have you back Manolito. I have heard about the "Cry" and "Thyroid Tilt" for years. I am still not sure how to do that on purpose. Some people say if you are singing a pitch over a certain note your larynx is tilting but it seems to me that "Thyroid tilt" is different in some way. I may naturally do it when actually Crying or Laughing but I cannot instigate it.

    Any Suggestions?

     Back to the subject of this topic.....Most important Consideration when training....  If there is something you do not understand......Do not be afraid to ask someone who does and get directions:bouncy:.

     I think I just got my question answered from one of Roberts new videos........In it he describes "Twang" as a result of Larynx Tilting.....Cry is described as a "Tilted" larynx.

I always thought of the "CRY" and "Twanging" to be 2 different things........I guess it is a matter of 2 different systems to have different terms for the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No no, I’m talking about thyroid tilting. The thyroid is part of the larynx, but it is not the larynx.

You can thyroid tilt with either a high, mid, or low larynx, although it is easier to get the thyroid tilt working when you lower your larynx, because it’s almost a reflex that your thyroid is tilting forward when lowering your larynx, like with yawning.

Cry and Twang are two different things. Twang is connected with a narrow aryepiglottis sphincter (AES), because a narrowing of the vocal tract creates a sharper, brilliant sound. A high larynx is a natural part of that,  similar to how a low larynx is part of thyroid tilt (Cry), but one can Twang with a low or mid larynx, as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No no, I’m talking about thyroid tilting. The thyroid is part of the larynx, but it is not the larynx.

You can thyroid tilt with either a high, mid, or low larynx, although it is easier to get the thyroid tilt working when you lower your larynx, because it’s almost a reflex that your thyroid is tilting forward when lowering your larynx, like with yawning.

Cry and Twang are two different things. Twang is connected with a narrow aryepiglottis sphincter (AES), because a narrowing of the vocal tract creates a sharper, brilliant sound. A high larynx is a natural part of that,  similar to how a low larynx is part of thyroid tilt (Cry), but one can Twang with a low or mid larynx, as well.

     Thanks for answering.....Still not sure how to initiate cry.......I have been told before to add a little cry to my sound.....I haven't been able to on purpose......It does happen from an emotional response........trying to find something to associate it with that I already have control over..........Gets confusing mapping something you cannot feel or see.:mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally chose "Shut up and start singing." I am under the impression that after all of these years spent in training that the student should have direct control over how they want to train and utilize their own voices. I think that is not an option for many people, just as it was not for me.

At this point, if I could go back and have trained differently I would. I would have foregone all of the coloratura: sostenuto, appogiatura, fioritiura, tremolo, portamento, cadenza, trills, and other features of the specific training.

I think training one specific way is quite limiting, and I feel that it creates a sort of psychological obstruction in developing the voice differently later if one so chose. Of course, I often refuse to learn anything with dramatic edge and squillo and other huge, voluminous sounds for fear of vocal decline.

But yes, I would have trained as something more dramatic and powerful. And I most certainly would have developed some semblance of a chest voice, because mine is pitiful. Shame that is what prohibited, haha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree, K. Mc. I have not really trained anywhere, but I imagine that all singing training methods keep some of the basic concepts, and later teach other things depending on preference or style. So what I think is that you are now very well prepared to start practicing whatever it is that you'd like to sing. Have you checked Sarah Vaughan? She sounds fantastic and has a bit of an opera air sometimes.

 

By the way, I have not even filled the survey because, when I first read it, it was too advanced for me, and now I've learnt about everything and all are important. What I do mostly is just sing; for many different reasons, stable structured training would be too difficult for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Rosa said:

I don't agree, K. Mc. I have not really trained anywhere, but I imagine that all singing training methods keep some of the basic concepts, and later teach other things depending on preference or style. So what I think is that you are now very well prepared to start practicing whatever it is that you'd like to sing. Have you checked Sarah Vaughan? She sounds fantastic and has a bit of an opera air sometimes.

I personally wouldn't make the decision to do so. And while I know that what I am about to type is a shining example of the anecdotal fallacy, relying upon personal experience and also compelling evidence in the cases of coloraturas who sang dramatic or spinto work: Beverly Sills, and conversely dramatics who sang coloratura work: Maria Callas. Both of whom considered doing either repertoire too heavy in the case of Sills, and repertoire too light in the case of Callas, immensely shed years off the quality of their voices.

I can't even begin to imagine the curious case of Ivan Rebroff, who could deep into the Bass range, and well into the heights of lyrical soprano ranges. His instance was quite similar.

Of course, it is tautological at this point. One cannot be sure that these things alone would contribute to vocal decline. But, I certainly wouldn't want that to be the case.

Sarah Vaughan isamazing! Of course, considering her for just a minute, the belting is the issue I would have with such works. Sure, I could pitch an F5 or G5 with ease. The trouble is the acoustics of it. I would be willing to bet that Vaughan lifts her chest voice to achieve those things. But, in my case, all oratorio is done in head voice. To be able to sound chestier and more guttural, one might say, I would have to lift my larynx from the neutral position and the result is a throatier, raspy sound. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 29 de enero de 2016 at 8:09 PM, K. Mc said:

Sarah Vaughan isamazing! Of course, considering her for just a minute, the belting is the issue I would have with such works. 

Probably what Sarah Vaughan does sometimes is also called Belting, but she doesn't belt that much compared to others (in my idea of Belting... :D ) She might have a huge range, but let's remember the range that we can see on some pages includes all through their songs and any type of sound they ever made, so forget about that. Misty looks singable, and you just go away from the song and sing it in whatever key you feel better at. And you don't want to sing it like her either...can change it! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed close to 5 million people had watched this video and went to check it. Diana Krall sings these same jazzy songs in a different style. 

 

 

I like her, but hmm I think I am more into the belters. :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are many, but if I had to make a choice on what is the MOST important consideration first and foremost, it would HAVE to be... to insure that you have the training content, techniques and facilities ( web sites, books, files, video, etc...), and teacher that can teach you what you need and want, instead of wasting your time with things that don't get results and/or taking lessons with no homework, facilities, scales and clear instruction on how to practice and train. 

That is the 1st thing that has to be addressed.  After that, you can get into some of the other details as to what your going to train and how often, etc...

Hope this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/29/2016 at 10:45 AM, K. Mc said:

I personally chose "Shut up and start singing." I am under the impression that after all of these years spent in training that the student should have direct control over how they want to train and utilize their own voices. I think that is not an option for many people, just as it was not for me.

At this point, if I could go back and have trained differently I would. I would have foregone all of the coloratura: sostenuto, appogiatura, fioritiura, tremolo, portamento, cadenza, trills, and other features of the specific training.

I think training one specific way is quite limiting, and I feel that it creates a sort of psychological obstruction in developing the voice differently later if one so chose. Of course, I often refuse to learn anything with dramatic edge and squillo and other huge, voluminous sounds for fear of vocal decline.

But yes, I would have trained as something more dramatic and powerful. And I most certainly would have developed some semblance of a chest voice, because mine is pitiful. Shame that is what prohibited, haha.

I totally agree with this sentiment, but that doesn't mean that training techniques that help build strength and motor skills of your voice... and in particular, the study of resonance, vowels and formants isn't going to to VASTLY push your singing forward, even for the most experienced singers... because it most certainly will and does. 

Why anyone would advocate not embracing both training and singing is a strange proposition. You don't have to make a choice, do both and become twice as knowledgable and experienced.

BTW, thanks for posting and being a member here K.Mc... I like your well thought out posts. Good to see you again Rosa!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/23/2015 at 11:28 AM, MDEW said:

     Thanks for answering.....Still not sure how to initiate cry.......I have been told before to add a little cry to my sound.....I haven't been able to on purpose......It does happen from an emotional response........trying to find something to associate it with that I already have control over..........Gets confusing mapping something you cannot feel or see.:mellow:

MDEW, I can also help you with "cry" or singing with SOB mode. It is a technique and sound color I am teaching a lot these days as a matter of fact for my students. It not only sounds great... but you get a two for one benefit... applying SOB mode to your singing also has the benefit of allowing the voice to access head voice easier with a lighter mass, without losing stability. That is to say, it helps when you want to sing lightly in the head voice , but still need stability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now