phonetics question

[m.i.r.]

Just a random observation and question spawned from it. As most educated singers know, the singers formant is a spike between 2600 ish hz and 3200 give or take. Say if you compare Pavarotti's spike at 1400 hz at a b4, or domingo's spike at 2700hz same note same song. Both singers stood the test of time, could be heard un miced ect. Yet both voices are tuned very different over tone wise, Pavarotti's voice should be lost in the mix in theory, yet it obviously isnt.

So is it really the singers formant to fight for? Or is it a goal to tune your vocal chamber to make certain overtones come together to form a new explosive note in lack of better words. Both domingo and Pavarotti frequency bands are very level and steady for the most part, except for these extremely large spikes.

Almost like the over tone singing of the new thread (which still boggles my mind, completely amazing). Yet instead of wanting them to stand out, have them come together and be the captain planet of notes???

[ronws]

Actually, our venerable Steven Fraser did a study on this some years ago and even had blog posts and articles in the main site about it. Though I don't think it is exactly the same as overtone singing, what was apparent is that differing singers have different partials or overtones that are prominent. Not only different, but some had more overtones present, some less.

 

How much of that is due to training for a particular prominence and how much is due to the unique construction of each individual, giving each his own sound is beyond me, at this point, though I think that is a good academic question, if I may say so.

[Robert Lunte]

Very interesting... In my view, fixating on tuning to the singers formant is probably more

Valuable to Classical singers and is also a Worthy endeavor for training,

But for contemporary singers, it's not so critical. It's also true that you need to find the formant tuning that is most preferred for your voice. Small variations of the vowels and colors, become part of your signature as a singer.

[m.i.r.]

I completely agree robert, building that frequency that carries in the largest hall is also a sign of 100 percent efficiency of the fold, placement, and support of the instrument. As maestro Fraser was telling me this week, the perfect track shaping with the perfect twang ect. Equals no labored delivery, things just sort of come into place and work naturally. No having to use massive amount of support, forcing ect. Even just the few rushed things he worked with me on is proof of that. A large amount of sound with very little effort.

So yes, contemporary have no need to be so loud. And can also choose to do less efficient setups for stylistic tone and timber. However, being able to access that type of efficiency if wanted, could only have positive effects on tone, health, and stamina.

I was just shocked to see the spike of Pavarotti not at the singers formant, as well has how even is frequency was, excluding that one monster spike.

This is just a floating thought. Maybe instead of aiming for the typical singers formant all the time. Aim for the individuals formant?? Maybe some peoples voice might respond better to a jump at 1500, 4000, 5100, ect.

This is just a thought as I said, I am not an expert in this area and may be easily proven wrong. As I am aware of the way the ear is designed to be sensitive to the 2500-3500hz, as natures way of letting a mother hear her crying child better.

https://app.box.com/s/barjvz040o7h2uupba9s

Here is the spectrograph if interested. Pavarotti is bottom domingo top

[Owen Korzec]

m.i.r.,

The contemporary singers with the most "cut" I've heard, when I analyzed their voice, I just saw a whole row of strong resonances in the "twang" region all the way from 2.5k up to as high as 9 or 10k maybe - rather than a huge bump around 3k. For contemporary music, there is no need to cluster anything up in that frequency range because there is no orchestra to cut through and the available option of spreading out the resonance to a wider range sounds more natural for the style. 
 

So in other words in contemporary music there is no need to aim for a particular consistent formant anywhere and because there is no need, you probably shouldn't bother. It's not what gives everyone their unique sound (a whole bunch of other factors play in), and in fact, no one is really doing it as far as I know. You could maybe be a little nasal and that would give a constant alteration to stuff, but you'd compromise sonic beauty in the process.

When you see singers with different formant spikes in different areas - here's the thing - if it is 2.5k and above stuff, F3/F4/F5 material, it will give consistent upper resonance. Some singers rely on that concept more and do less vowel tuning. If it is a lot of 2k and below stuff, they're tuning the vowels (perhaps relying less on the singer's formant range), and that's going to change a lot. You may notice general similarities in a singer. E.g. this girl relies on her F1 resonance more, this guy relies on his F2 resonance more, this girl tends to overspread and place her F2 frequencies in the 2-2.5k region, this guy sings very dark so his F1 and F2 tunings sit lower than most guys. But they won't be as static as the singer's formant. And then some singers will vary their reliance on F1 or F2 or the singer's formant interchangeably. Some will just have weaker resonance in all regards and still sound pleasing, that's common in contemporary music too - airy singers etc.

Hope that answers your question.

[ronws]

I was just shocked to see the spike of Pavarotti not at the singers formant, as well has how even is frequency was, excluding that one monster spike.

This is just a floating thought. Maybe instead of aiming for the typical singers formant all the time. Aim for the individuals formant?? Maybe some peoples voice might respond better to a jump at 1500, 4000, 5100, ect.

 

I think so, too. For example, a strohbass not only has long and thick folds but also the right kind of space to resonate some of the partials that give or take away warmth of tone. If he doesn't have the right spaces, he might think he is a baritone. Anyway, that is why I think some ranges are more readily accessible. That is not saying that they cannot sing higher ranges, though I have actually not heard of a really high tenor change career to effectively a low bass. If he did, I would also ask if he had a tonsilectomy. Having things removed surgically does change the size and shape of a space, I promise it does.

[Felipe Carvalho]

Hey mir

Although you are correct in the sense that Pavarotti did a different strategy. BOTH singers did use the singers formant around 3Khz

Its not necessary that the formant cluster be the spike on the spectra in order to achieve projection.

[m.i.r.]

Hey mir

Although you are correct in the sense that Pavarotti did a different strategy. BOTH singers did use the singers formant around 3Khz

Its not necessary that the formant cluster be the spike on the spectra in order to achieve projection.

That is about as straight forward sensible answer i could think of. Pavarotti's frequency pattern is pretty robust all through the spectrum.

[Steven Fraser]

Especially useful to say, I think, is that a characteristic of Domingo's singing is a reliance on singer's formant region resonance, while Pav also does 2nd- formant tuning. How much of either of those shows up in a recording can be influenced by the recording Engineer.