I can reach the note but can't sing it.

[forgivendays]

Hello, I've been struggling for a very long time with G above middle C. It's my passaggio I think, although I can break into falsetto before it. Anyways, I could reach it sometimes but it was always strained. After learning support and raising the uvula (open throat) I can reach it without strain but only by sliding up to it and in the vowel AH as in 'far'.

http://www.box.net/shared/9bg7kc22vg

Now how can I sing it without having to slide up to it. I can't reach it in most vowels. Is it even possible to make your passagio an easily sung chest voice note?

[Matt]

'chest voice' is a controversial term around here, but its completely possible to make your passagio powerful.

[jonpall]

You can't use all vowels up there - you'll have to modify them a bit, unless you're contempt with using very little power for your high notes. And you have to use less air, almost to the point of holding your breath. Just 2 tips to get you started. Try them, in a playful manner and see what happens.

[VideoHere]

Hello, I've been struggling for a very long time with G above middle C. It's my passaggio I think, although I can break into falsetto before it. Anyways, I could reach it sometimes but it was always strained. After learning support and raising the uvula (open throat) I can reach it without strain but only by sliding up to it and in the vowel AH as in 'far'.

http://www.box.net/shared/9bg7kc22vg

Now how can I sing it without having to slide up to it. I can't reach it in most vowels. Is it even possible to make your passagio an easily sung chest voice note?

to get a "chestier" sound i have found you need to add more breath support, and focus the sound in the soft palette.

i call "g" an overlap note because you can sing it in chest or head...but a twanged head voice is probably a safer choice.

[Matt]

Sometimes people think full head is full chest. People may think Dio was very chesty but he was singing in mix with a lot of head, imo.

[Jens]

yes man but sometimes singers are very chesty high up in the range i know tons od examples of people who sing A's and B's in their "chest"

[VideoHere]

yes man but sometimes singers are very chesty high up in the range i know tons od examples of people who sing A's and B's in their "chest"

jens, send some over.....please!!!!

this one topic has always confused the hell out of me.

if possible, one metal vocalist, and one non-metal.

i agree. you can be "chesty" in terms of sounding "chesty" up there, but can one sing from the chest register and go up to those notes without a hell of a lot of "effort?"

and why would one?

[Matt]

Correct me if Im wrong, but a lot of people would say this is chesty but to me thats his head ringing away like a church bell, even though its quite low in register

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mTy1TRrLTU&feature=related

[VideoHere]

Correct me if Im wrong, but a lot of people would say this is chesty but to me thats his head ringing away like a church bell, even though its quite low in register

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mTy1TRrLTU&feature=related

matt excuse me for the repost

(i just want to be sure jens sees this.)

jens, send some over.....please!!!!

this one topic has always confused the hell out of me.

if possible, one metal vocalist, and one non-metal.

i agree. you can be "chesty" in terms of sounding "chesty" up there, but can one sing from the chest register and go up to those notes without a hell of a lot of "effort?"

and why would one?

[VideoHere]

jens, are you going to send over some examples?

[Jens]

yes i will take it ez what i mean by "chest" is the talkingvoice if we are talking about registration. highnotes will always resonate in the head and lownotes in the chest. A chestsound on an A4 for example will take huge effort for the singer, what im talking about is one dont need to perform the bridge or the modeswitch.

So to simplify what im talking about here is singers who take the vocalweight down low up high, to get away from the chest/headterminology :D

[Jens]

first example im gonna post is my alltime favourite jorn lande, i think this recording is good cause you can hear how much effort is put for him to be able to sing like this.

3:34 you can hear some crazy highs

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/24047725/daniel_chest.wma

second one is my friend who i had in studio, and i can tell you he really goes for it recordings can always be alittle bit fooling

i dont have a nonmetalvocalist right of the bat though

edit: kindo high phil collins pulling the maneuver im talking about.

1:47

CVT usually lables most of these sounds overdrive or edge, but ive found that even some forms of curbing can be very very "chesty/carry alot of vocal weight"

´The fuller the sound the more support and fit you have to be both physical and vocaly :P

[forgivendays]

How about this? Does this classify as chest voice? 0:09

He's easily "speaking" and reaches an A#4... and he was sick.

[Jens]

Morid, basicly what im talking about here is a certain coordination of the voice wich is used by alot of singers to pull much vocal weight up high into the range I kindo wanna get away from the terminology debate here. So all on the forum lets skip is this chest or head and instead talk about vocal weight

But the singer of alterbridge is not one of the guys i would count as a heavytype singer basicly because his voice is very balanced and he sings mostly in the curbing mode. If you listen closley on that whole song how balanced he is and how easy it is for him to sing high, if he would use alot of vocalweight it would require much more of him to sing that high up in the range.

To carry as much vocalweight up into the voice as possible the vowels Oh And Eh can be used up til male high C in the voice above that point the voice needs a narrowing usually by shifting more towards twanged vowels such as A and E and adding alot of extra twang, also a note when carrying alot of vocalweight up into the voice the higher you get the more screamy/shouty the voice gets. So if you listen to that phil collins clip at 1:47 to be able to carry that vocalweight up there you can hear he has to increase his support and volume + smiling to lighten the soundcolor and also his voice gets alot shoutier then the rest of the singing.

[VideoHere]

yes man but sometimes singers are very chesty high up in the range i know tons od examples of people who sing A's and B's in their "chest"

respectfully, i'd have to disagree jens. although they may have a "chesty"/"chesty resonant tone high up in their range, the vocal production of those notes are well supported head voice.

listen to paul rodgers sing the high c in this song "rock steady"

he's as chesty as can be in terms of resonance and power, but the production of those notes, the execution of those notes utilize head voice. yes, the weight and everything is "chesty" "weighty" but he's not phonating those notes in chest voice.

at 1:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlC-Jpkxl20

[Jens]

Reread all my post and then come back cause you clearly only listened to the clips... There's no use in discussing if we dont even discuss with the same terminology... Highnotes will always resonate in the head if we talk about resonance, a High C will never have the feeling or sound of only resonating in the chest... But reread the posts about vocalweight and come back youll see we are on the same page...

cause ive stood next to guys who bring their entire voice up, then you can put what defenition you want on it :P

[Matt]

to me jorge lande sings in that clip with twang and very much in the mask

[VideoHere]

Reread all my post and then come back cause you clearly only listened to the clips... There's no use in discussing if we dont even discuss with the same terminology... Highnotes will always resonate in the head if we talk about resonance, a High C will never have the feeling or sound of only resonating in the chest... But reread the posts about vocalweight and come back youll see we are on the same page...

cause ive stood next to guys who bring their entire voice up, then you can put what defenition you want on it

yes, i think we are in agreement...jens, you and i have the same apprecaition for that chesty sound but i think a lot of folks don't realize the skill and strength (another tough thing to describe, strength) is involved.

then on top of all this, to stay open and relaxed yet tense...lol!!

a lot of people will say "don't bring up chest", "don't pull chest", but they don't seem to understand that some of us can pull it off.

[forgivendays]

The G4 I'm struggling with got a little bit easier by the way. I sing a scale up to G while focusing on support and having an open throat then relax for a while and do it again. Seems to be working, but slowly.

EDIT: Never mind. I guess I was just having a good day yesterday.

[Quincy]

Well I'll weigh in with my most likely faulty assumptions, but I think “pulling up chest” is another way people describe "pressed phonation". In other words too much weight (TA activation) for the pitch and air flow. This imbalance causes rigid vocal folds which induces even more constrictions in the throat and ultimately strain and discomfort.

I think you can have a chesty “sounding” pitch up high, but it requires a controlled balance between stretching the folds(CT) and thickening them (TA) that is in balance with the air flow. So you can create an even and smooth vibration along the edges of the folds that is thinned yet is not overly pressed against one another (too much friction). So the edges stay thin like head voice but the body of the folds are thick; at least as thick as is possible considering they have been stretched longer than a low pitched sound.

Tuning the vowels with different resonant shapes helps with the whole ability to keep an open throat, good vibrations, and amplification thus keeps constrictions from collapsing the whole delicate balance.

Gee I just went back and read all this and it sounds a bit geeky. Oh well, I’m not going to rewrite it.:P

[VideoHere]

Well I'll weigh in with my most likely faulty assumptions, but I think “pulling up chest” is another way people describe "pressed phonation". In other words too much weight (TA activation) for the pitch and air flow. This imbalance causes rigid vocal folds which induces even more constrictions in the throat and ultimately strain and discomfort.

I think you can have a chesty “sounding” pitch up high, but it requires a controlled balance between stretching the folds(CT) and thickening them (TA) that is in balance with the air flow. So you can create an even and smooth vibration along the edges of the folds that is thinned yet is not overly pressed against one another (too much friction). So the edges stay thin like head voice but the body of the folds are thick; at least as thick as is possible considering they have been stretched longer than a low pitched sound.

Tuning the vowels with different resonant shapes helps with the whole ability to keep an open throat, good vibrations, and amplification thus keeps constrictions from collapsing the whole delicate balance.

Gee I just went back and read all this and it sounds a bit geeky. Oh well, I’m not going to rewrite it.

agreed..the trick is to stay open and relaxed for me anyway.

[Steven Fraser]

Well I'll weigh in with my most likely faulty assumptions, but I think “pulling up chest” is another way people describe "pressed phonation". In other words too much weight (TA activation) for the pitch and air flow. This imbalance causes rigid vocal folds which induces even more constrictions in the throat and ultimately strain and discomfort.

I think you can have a chesty “sounding” pitch up high, but it requires a controlled balance between stretching the folds(CT) and thickening them (TA) that is in balance with the air flow. So you can create an even and smooth vibration along the edges of the folds that is thinned yet is not overly pressed against one another (too much friction). So the edges stay thin like head voice but the body of the folds are thick; at least as thick as is possible considering they have been stretched longer than a low pitched sound.

Tuning the vowels with different resonant shapes helps with the whole ability to keep an open throat, good vibrations, and amplification thus keeps constrictions from collapsing the whole delicate balance.

Gee I just went back and read all this and it sounds a bit geeky. Oh well, I’m not going to rewrite it.

Quincy: I thought it was spot on.

[Quincy]

Thanks Steven!

It's nice to get confirmation about understanding this process better because there are so many missing pieces to the puzzle. Coming from you means a lot.

[Steven Fraser]

Thanks Steven!

It's nice to get confirmation about understanding this process better because there are so many missing pieces to the puzzle. Coming from you means a lot.

Quincy: You are welcome. This whole deal, the interrelationship of adduction, registration and breath energy is one of my core areas of pedagogic focus. For many years, I lived this problem with my own singing. I am very familiar with the way the body responds to the various imbalances, and the limitations in vocal range that result.

Its one of the things that motivates me as a writer, too.

Keep up the good work.

[Steven Fraser]

Hello, I've been struggling for a very long time with G above middle C. It's my passaggio I think, although I can break into falsetto before it. Anyways, I could reach it sometimes but it was always strained. After learning support and raising the uvula (open throat) I can reach it without strain but only by sliding up to it and in the vowel AH as in 'far'.

http://www.box.net/shared/9bg7kc22vg

Now how can I sing it without having to slide up to it. I can't reach it in most vowels. Is it even possible to make your passagio an easily sung chest voice note?

Morid: I am going to make some specific recommendations for exercises you can do to help with this, and along the way, explain what they are designed to do, and the circumstances they are designed to address.

As I have written elsewhere, In my experience the single most range-limiting factor for male voices is the supply of too much breath energy. The muscles of exhalation are massive and strong, and the vocal bands are tiny by comparision. For most men, the first skill to be learned on the way to bringing the muscle actions of these two groups into balance is to learn how to exhale slowly, and without providing any resistance in the throat, tongue or lips to this airflow. This desire, to exhale slowly, automatically brings the diaphragm into action as a control over the strongest forces of exhalation.

The exercise to practice this is stunningly simple: Take a moderate abdominal breath with the mouth easily open, jaw relaxed, and simply breathe out slowly... say, to a (mental) count of 10. Cup your hand 1" in front of your lips, and feel the warmth and moistness of this breath. After a few repeats of this, take in more air while inhaling, and repeat with the slow exhale to a count of 15.

With a few more repeats, you are likely to begin to be come aware of the bodily sensations that go with this balanced breath action. During one of the repeats of the exercise, push in gently at the level of your belly-button... you will feel gentle firmness of action, but not rigidity.

Adding sound. In the middle of one of the slow exhales, 'say' the syllable 'ay', a few times in a row clearly but softly, while maintaining the sensation of the slow exhale. The desire to say the syllable is all that is required. This is the 2nd skill, to onset (start) phonation while performing the very slow exhale.

Once you have done this a few times this way, then do a slide up a bit, and then back down, without deliberately expending any additional energy.

As you become more familiar with the associated sensations, increase the pitch range of your upward slide, without making anyattempt to increase volume. If there are blips, pops or a crack, repeat and go more slowly through that part of the range.

Repeat the exercises for about 15 minutes a day for 10 days or 2 weeks, to familiarize yourself with the sensations of this breath management.

More to come.