Is this more of a Belty or Heady Configuration? (Samples included)

[Jabroni]

I was practicing some head tones today and found that I have no issue going up through F5 with this configuration.

 

To me, it sounds like more of an M1/Belty configuration. If it is, then I find it interesting that I can go up through F5 win this way and I can't get passed A#4 with consistency in a more heady configuration. Or maybe it's just the vowel I'm going with?

 

What I usually end up doing is shading the vowel to more of an "uh" anywhere between G4 and A4/A#4.

 

No constriction or choking at all... very free and open. Just wanted to see what the community though about it.

 

3 files in the playlist here:

 

[ronws]

You answered your own question. Try another vowel.

 

In the mean time, it doesn't matter if you had the adduction you personally identify as "belting." If it sounds like belting, then it is "belting" for listening purposes. It is all an aural illusion. "It's a kind of magic. That no one else can see ..."

[gno]

Good examples.  A male can't go much past C5 in M1 and usually the switch is lower.   That is M2.  The degree to which the tone sounds like belting (strong harmonics)  is the amount adduction.  A strong adduction can really help M2 sound like M1.  The A#4 is right in the middle of the tricky part of the tenor range.  F5 is way above and can actually be easier to deal with.

[Jabroni]

Good examples.  A male can't go much past C5 in M1 and usually the switch is lower.   That is M2.  The degree to which the tone sounds like belting (strong harmonics)  is the amount adduction.  A strong adduction can really help M2 sound like M1.  The A#4 is right in the middle of the tricky part of the tenor range.  F5 is way above and can actually be easier to deal with.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Modifying vowels would help lessen the adduction? I know most people start with a lighter config and then learn to add more mass and belt, but for me it seems like it's the other way around... unless those tones aren't "belty" and I'm not identifying them correctly.

[Jabroni]

You answered your own question. Try another vowel.

 

In the mean time, it doesn't matter if you had the adduction you personally identify as "belting." If it sounds like belting, then it is "belting" for listening purposes. It is all an aural illusion. "It's a kind of magic. That no one else can see ..."

 

Thanks for the feedback... I'll try some other vowel mods.

 

ronws, could you elaborate a bit more on this? I'm not quite sure what you mean by "aural illusion".

[ronws]

Thanks for the feedback... I'll try some other vowel mods.

 

ronws, could you elaborate a bit more on this? I'm not quite sure what you mean by "aural illusion".

aural, meaning what you hear.

illusion, meaning that the effect is not always what you think it is from. Like, what I said in the sentences surrounding that. Though I might be wrong. For all I know, you can tell the difference between a belt and anything just by listening. That is, can you tell how someone is doing a sound just by listening to them?

[gno]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Modifying vowels would help lessen the adduction? I know most people start with a lighter config and then learn to add more mass and belt, but for me it seems like it's the other way around... unless those tones aren't "belty" and I'm not identifying them correctly.

 

This is a big subject.  Modifying vowels help align the lower formants.  It shouldn't lessen adduction though.  I first learned the M2 switch at loud belting volumes.  I've spent the last year or two re-learning this in a light coordination though.  I believe it is important to learn this at any volume, and this brings in another set of variables.  

 

Due to what Martin calls "Acoustical Overload", louder volumes require certain vowels like "ah" to be modified.  Whereas with really light volumes, the vowels don't need to be modified as much.  Learning the M1 to M2 switch without an audible break or going from chest to head (which is changing from a deeper vibration to a shallow vibration while keeping the same adduction) is a different thing than Vowel Modification.  Although Vowel Modification plays an important role.  If you are singing loud and modifying correctly, the switch to M2 is pushed higher and it seems easier to maintain adduction.  At least it was for me.

 

What helps keeps the adduction when singing light is twang or narrowing the epiglottal funnel.  Twang clusters the upper harmonics which make them louder keeping that "chest" voice sound, as well as creating a "back pressure" which helps keep your folds together (adduction).  It is really tricky as it is very easy to overdo adduction, giving you a pressed sound.  It is a balance - just the right amount of adduction - that we are looking for.  And for most singers it takes A LOT of practice to learn this balance.

[Jabroni]

This is a big subject.  Modifying vowels help align the lower formants.  It shouldn't lessen adduction though.  I first learned the M2 switch at loud belting volumes.  I've spent the last year or two re-learning this in a light coordination though.  I believe it is important to learn this at any volume, and this brings in another set of variables.  

 

Due to what Martin calls "Acoustical Overload", louder volumes require certain vowels like "ah" to be modified.  Whereas with really light volumes, the vowels don't need to be modified as much.  Learning the M1 to M2 switch without an audible break or going from chest to head (which is changing from a deeper vibration to a shallow vibration while keeping the same adduction) is a different thing than Vowel Modification.  Although Vowel Modification plays an important role.  If you are singing loud and modifying correctly, the switch to M2 is pushed higher and it seems easier to maintain adduction.  At least it was for me.

 

What helps keeps the adduction when singing light is twang or narrowing the epiglottal funnel.  Twang clusters the upper harmonics which make them louder keeping that "chest" voice sound, as well as creating a "back pressure" which helps keep your folds together (adduction).  It is really tricky as it is very easy to overdo adduction, giving you a pressed sound.  It is a balance - just the right amount of adduction - that we are looking for.  And for most singers it takes A LOT of practice to learn this balance.

 

Thanks for the detailed post. Very informative.

 

In your opinion, do my phonations sound "pressed"?

[Owen Korzec]

I personally don't believe in Ron's aural illusion thing anymore. I have found that some people perceive resonance as power and some find it meaningless unless they can hear actual fold depth in the sound - which does affect resonance, but you can't get a "fold depth" sound without having actual fold depth, and therefore, it IS the intrinsic musculature to be dealt with. The funny thing is you have to train it along with good vowel tuning anyways...everything about singing is a paradox

Anyways,

Your examples are M2. This is the released, resonant side of your voice. If you want to sing notes up in this range, it's hard to hear in this particular recording, but i THINK you would need more twang compression to get the intensity across. It is something I have put off working on within that range because to me, balancing the F4-C5 range is more important to train to COMBINE belty and heady qualities and then from there you can learn to vary it in either direction but from a "one voice" place, not having to decide between limited, separate configurations. Could you send a clip of what you tend to do around F4-C5?

Your phonations aren't pressed Jabroni, it just sounds, based on how this high range sounds, like there may be some things to be worked out around your passaggio. My high range used to sound very similar to yours does now and at that time I had a kinda fat break in my passaggio so I want to make sure you are not experiencing the same thing.

[Jabroni]

I personally don't believe in Ron's aural illusion thing anymore. I have found that some people perceive resonance as power and some find it meaningless unless they can hear actual fold depth in the sound - which does affect resonance, but you can't get a "fold depth" sound without having actual fold depth, and therefore, it IS the intrinsic musculature to be dealt with. The funny thing is you have to train it along with good vowel tuning anyways...everything about singing is a paradox

Anyways,

Your examples are M2. This is the released, resonant side of your voice. If you want to sing notes up in this range, it's hard to hear in this particular recording, but i THINK you would need more twang compression to get the intensity across. It is something I have put off working on within that range because to me, balancing the F4-C5 range is more important to train to COMBINE belty and heady qualities and then from there you can learn to vary it in either direction but from a "one voice" place, not having to decide between limited, separate configurations. Could you send a clip of what you tend to do around F4-C5?

Your phonations aren't pressed Jabroni, it just sounds, based on how this high range sounds, like there may be some things to be worked out around your passaggio. My high range used to sound very similar to yours does now and at that time I had a kinda fat break in my passaggio so I want to make sure you are not experiencing the same thing.

 

Owen, thanks for the feedback. I agree that the F4-C5 range is where most singing is done, so these E5-F5 notes would be more for "scream" effects than anything.

 

When you're referring to the passagio, is that E4? Because I have no issue bridging through E4 up to A4/A#4 and the tone sounds the same throughout. The issue is getting passed A#4 with that sound, where is where I have to go with a much more heavy vowel shading (what you hear in the clips, a fairly distinct change in timbre).

 

I'll be sure to post a clip, maybe it's a slight change that I'm not picking up on. I agree about adding more twang... I don't hear enough "sharpness" in the tone.

[Owen Korzec]

No, I mean sorting out the a4-c5 passagio which involves doing the e4-g4 area the right way as well. They are interconnected. If you get above g4 but can't get up to c5 smoothly that is one passagio issue of many possible problems but that ones common and i maybe you have it. you probably need to learn to release excess throat tension and thin out the voice better in other words you need to add flexibility to your vocal strength in order to get a balance. Both areas the e4-g4 and a4-c5 (roughly speaking here) bridges need a reliable balance of fullness and release that will work on any song you throw at it.

Its not easy I've been working on it for years!

[Jabroni]

No, I mean sorting out the a4-c5 passagio which involves doing the e4-g4 area the right way as well. They are interconnected. If you get above g4 but can't get up to c5 smoothly that is one passagio issue of many possible problems but that ones common and i maybe you have it. you probably need to learn to release excess throat tension and thin out the voice better in other words you need to add flexibility to your vocal strength in order to get a balance. Both areas the e4-g4 and a4-c5 (roughly speaking here) bridges need a reliable balance of fullness and release that will work on any song you throw at it.

Its not easy I've been working on it for years!

 

I think that's what it comes down to. Let me see if I can get a couple of sirens recorded.

 

EDIT: Here's the link. Thanks a lot for the feedback. I tried to do some octave sirens from G3-G4, G#3-G#4, A3-A4 and A#3-A#4.

 

[gno]

Jabroni - no I don't think it sounds "pressed".  

 

Your examples are Overdrive vowels in M1 at loud volumes. You are going up to about A4.  Owen is right - you need to start thinning the folds to be able to enter M2.  You are carrying too much weight up, too high.  Although there is nothing wrong with that kind of weight - it is not harmful - but it will be more difficult to bridge into M2.

 

Try the Seth Riggs exercises 14 through 19 and see if you can do those - google them.  It teaches the switch from M1 to M2 at lower volumes but with full adduction.

[Jabroni]

So the G4-A4 siren that I did isn't even in M2? I didn't even realize that. I'm surprised because the weight felt fairly light and released.

I'll give the Seth Riggs exercises a shot, thanks.

[Jens]

Very good work jab! Thats how it's done

[Jabroni]

Very good work jab! Thats how it's done

 

Thanks Jens... I practiced a bit last night on the Seth Riggs exercises (basically seems like the "buzzing"/semi-occluded phonations) and I recorded a couple of them: I tried a couple of "onsets" right into the note. What I noticed were 3 things:

 

1) When going with this really light (almost cry/fry) buzzing, I really felt a much more notoceable break in the E4 region, probably because I was doing it in a much lighter mass.

2) After listen to my recordings, I was surprised at how loud they sound. My mouth wasn't open: I was only "buzzing", but it sounds almost like an onset.

3) The buzzing almost felt like falsetto, but had enough "twang" to keep a loud and connected sound.

 

I think I'm doing them correctly... if I can work on this light mass and eventually work them into my onsets and sirens, I tihnk this would help with the lighter config.

 

Here are the samples (In one of them I was praticing the difference between the falsetto sound/feeling and the connected one)

 

[Jens]

Why not take this out on a couple of songs and see what happens?

[Jabroni]

Why not take this out on a couple of songs and see what happens?

 

I could give "The Talisman" by Iron Maiden a shot... that would be a challenge for sure.

[SickXamedhi]

Awesome thread, Jabroni. This will help you and a a few other guys as well.

To me, when talking about briding it is a lot easier when using CVI terms, like Geno does. The fact that saying Overdrive indicates a "shouting quality the higher we go" is very useful. The term alone can tell you if you are in M1 or M2. 

I found my headvoice thanks to some SLS excersices that involved vowels like OH and EE, and I later found when reading CVI material that those vowels encourage a Curbing coordination.

The coordination you now found, with the buzzing excercise will lead you to great singing in the high range. Much like Bruce Dickinson does, as ron says, the aural illusion is very important. The tone can make people think it is heavy, but in reality it is not. And with distorsion over it if you can use it, it will be pretty much chest for everyone haha

[ronws]

I could give "The Talisman" by Iron Maiden a shot... that would be a challenge for sure.

Oh yeah! Now that would be cool. Or "The Trooper."

[gno]

Jabroni - the Riggs stuff you were doing correctly from chest to head keeping the addiction when ascending. That's a great practice. You should try #15 though 17 now with the 1.5 octave arpeggios ascending and descending. This will help that same coordination on the way back down from M2 to M1. Trying to keep the same bright tone throughout the entire exercise. Even though you are switching between M1 and M2 you can keep the tone the same by keeping the adduction the same.

[ronws]

Jabroni - the Riggs stuff you were doing correctly from chest to head keeping the addiction when ascending. 

"Might as well face it your addicted to love ..."

[Jabroni]

I have an update: was practicing some of the lighter M2 head tones with different vowels... these are scattered as far as range goes, some are in the low 5th octave, others are around F5-G5. There's a siren in there too.

 

Does this sound correct? The upper 5th octave screams sound pretty good.

 

Also, is this M2 config is supposed to come into play around the E4 bridge? It seems very early to lighten into M2 around E4.

 

[gno]

Yeah it sounds like you're doing it right. The siren shows that you need work on the M1 - M2 transition. If you get that better you'll get even more adduction in M2.

[Owen Korzec]

Jabroni you need to work on bridging the most right now. Referring to your newer siren example, I highly recommend you don't modify to uh at the passaggio point, it is tripping you up because you are overcovering to get that vowel shading which makes the voice stuck and then it has to flip to get higher. So instead try modifying to "aw" as in "claw" (but think a slightly more operatic darker sound to it but with a similar open throat feeling to a wide and bright "ah" as in "father" or "ae" as in "cat") at the middle and continue shading the vowel darker toward "ouh" as in "book" at the top, again still keeping that open throat feeling of an "ah" or "ae". Look in the mirror and make sure your embouchure isn't shifting at all. Lastly, right at the point where it wants to flip, you'll have to support like hell and get used to relaxing the throat above that support and then you'll find you can simply keep going and let your voice thin out naturally as it gradually runs out of weight to pull up instead of having to feel like you're mentally switching registers to get out of a heavy M1.
 

Also if you find the sirens too hard you may find more success with bridging and connecting 2A, but going from each note to the next like mini-sirens.

This is all stuff that helped me a lot with bridging.