I have a massive break

[NoLongerAPotato]

I watched Lunte's video on twang in the head voice and how he takes falsetto into a full sounding tone. I can do it to a very slight degree but feel I'm improving. My main problem is that my falsetto is INCREDIBLY disconnected from my chest voice, jumping about an octave down as I go down, and never even trying to flip into falsetto as I go up. I simply stop being able to hit higher notes, like there's a ceiling. I'm wondering if I've already bridged into head voice and its just that my falsetto (Which goes to insane 6th octave notes) is never going to sound chesty like the twang video. I'll post some sound clips when I get a chance but any advice you have would be great.

[Owen Korzec]

If you can find Lunte's video on Lift Up Pull Back, that's what you want to work on right now. I like to think of it not trying to manage two voices but just using the same voice you speak with but thinning weight loosening tension and softening volume to go upwards (rather than the typical getting louder pushing squeezing more), that kind of paradigm shift of doing the opposite things to go higher will get rid of your range ceiling as well as the break problem, but the result will be too quiet to sing with at first. Over time and training you'll be able to get that same freedom you'll find in the soft volume, at louder volumes you can actually sing with. You will have to learn more techniques to build that volume too but just start with LUPB for now and work on getting it very smooth.

[VideoHere]

Before you go for fixes, readjust and reprogram your mindset.

 

As I always say the voice is like a genie...whatever you say to it, it will see to it that you get your wish.

 

Send us a sample. Sounds like to need tools to help you to release and learn to shift resonance as you ascend.

[ronws]

What Bob said. Also, accept, at least at first, that if you have a voice that is "heavy" in whatever range you have, it is more challenging to go light. It is NOT impossible, just takes more careful attention.

[Jeremy Mohler]

Sounds like the exact same problem I have; I am under the impression from these guys that you just have to keep working with your connected head register even if all you can do is extremely light phonation.  If I am correct in my understanding of this, in practicing this light head voice sound will become more and more comfortable and eventually grow to be accessed at volumes loud enough to bridge into it from chest voice without any changes in dynamics.

[Owen Korzec]

Sounds like the exact same problem I have; I am under the impression from these guys that you just have to keep working with your connected head register even if all you can do is extremely light phonation.  If I am correct in my understanding of this, in practicing this light head voice sound will become more and more comfortable and eventually grow to be accessed at volumes loud enough to bridge into it from chest voice without any changes in dynamics.

It's not quite that simple. This is where it's so important to get a really good teacher because self taught folks like you are reading stuff on here and not getting it and truth be told I've had several teachers try to teach it this exact way you're describing now and if the student doesn't understand some important things they will get caught in a never ending process of swelling their falsetto into a stronger falsetto but then it just gets louder not more intense.

Here's a video that might clear up some things

[ronws]

I wonder why Phil is not in here?

 

Anyway, listen to Owen, Cigarette. I am self-taught, though I have had some help from a classical coach and the benefit of Robert's largess in regards to 4 Pillars, and also, another friend who is actively studying opera singing at a college. I certainly don't know what I am talking about. When all else fails, if you can afford it, get a coach. And then, listen to him more than you would listen to me, for example.

[NoLongerAPotato]

I'm not sure that I can't already transition into head voice, as I can hit a D5 that is totally connected to the rest of my voice. My falsetto jumps by like an octave as I slide down into chest and I cannot for the life of me begin to connect it to my chest voice. I'm honestly just trying to figure out whether my falsetto is ever going to be "twanged" like Lunte does.

[Jeremy Mohler]

 I certainly don't know what I am talking about. When all else fails, if you can afford it, get a coach. And then, listen to him more than you would listen to me, for example.

 

Nah man, I hear what you are saying but I definitely appreciate your advice as well so thanks for that.

 

 

It's not quite that simple. This is where it's so important to get a really good teacher because self taught folks like you are reading stuff on here and not getting it and truth be told I've had several teachers try to teach it this exact way you're describing now and if the student doesn't understand some important things they will get caught in a never ending process of swelling their falsetto into a stronger falsetto but then it just gets louder not more intense.

Here's a video that might clear up some things

 

Yeah, I should probably refrain from giving advice at this point. (at least on topics I don't completely understand myself.)  I watched Phil's video and I hear where he clearly outlines the fact that you can't swell even connected head voice sound to full power just by training it alone.  He mentions that he introduces his students to practicing lightly if they have problems with carrying too much weight up but it only last for a month.

 

 So I wonder what his next step is for those students?  I kinda figured the combination of working lift up pull back technique and working with pure chest/vowel mods as high as you comfortably can would eventually allow you to find that pocket of resonance to truly achieve a full voice tone above your break.  But these are just my best guesses being self taught; i'll never understand why singing high is so counter-intuitive for some people while others (even those who haven't taken vocal courses and had proper training) can just do it. 

[NoLongerAPotato]

i'll never understand why singing high is so counter-intuitive for some people while others (even those who haven't taken vocal courses and had proper training) can just do it. 

 

I couldn't tell ya... I'm definitely blessed to have a ~3 octave range without any actual training. The tricky part of course is making that crazy range sound half decent, at which I struggle often haha

[Owen Korzec]

Nah man, I hear what you are saying but I definitely appreciate your advice as well so thanks for that.

 

 

 

Yeah, I should probably refrain from giving advice at this point. (at least on topics I don't completely understand myself.)  I watched Phil's video and I hear where he clearly outlines the fact that you can't swell even connected head voice sound to full power just by training it alone.  He mentions that he introduces his students to practicing lightly if they have problems with carrying too much weight up but it only last for a month.

 

 So I wonder what his next step is for those students?  I kinda figured the combination of working lift up pull back technique and working with pure chest/vowel mods as high as you comfortably can would eventually allow you to find that pocket of resonance to truly achieve a full voice tone above your break.  But these are just my best guesses being self taught; i'll never understand why singing high is so counter-intuitive for some people while others (even those who haven't taken vocal courses and had proper training) can just do it. 

Actually you guessed correctly.

Why some people struggle with high notes and some don't is a matter of nurture and culture throughout life - some people are raised in a way that introduces constriction into the voice (being told to shut up, quiet down, etc.) and have to train it out, others' singing is embraced and they are ones that consistently retain and develop their singing gift and get the head start. There are also some physiological aspects with how the voice builds too that play in (muscles of neck forming, voice change, etc.) but basically if we all kept singing our entire early lives without feeling like we had to stop doing it for periods of months/years, we would all be great singers by the ages we're at now...

That applies to the whole of singing - so in the end, problems with high notes is just one common symptom of a larger problem.

[Owen Korzec]

Also one other thing that I find many people training are failing to do (which puts them BEHIND the gifted folks who do this naturally) is intensely studying their favorite singers. The fear of imitation is one of many extremely prominent fears that keep singers from progressing greatly. The reality is even if you try to carbon copy a handful of singers you like, WAY before you could even manage to master an exact imitation you will arrive sooner at your own sound blending their influences (what every singer should strive for). So there is nothing to worry about on the imitation front except hurting yourself trying to do something your voice can't yet, and in that case, just be careful, or imitating only one singer, which is quite unnatural to begin with.

[NoLongerAPotato]

Imitation is one thing I'm not afraid of in the least. Being a baritenor definitely puts me in a place to imitate Maynard James Keenan and Peter Gabriel (two very different but equally awesome singers)

[Jeremy Mohler]

Cool advice Owen, I like your theory on why some people are limited from a psychological standpoint.  As to your other point I agree there as well; I definitely imitate quite a few singers but alas singing high is still tough.  I mean, I can tell I am consistently improving but I feel like I am just getting better at pulling chest and am waiting for the day where I suddenly come across an easier way to do fourth octave without having to use full chest or be in really quiet head voice.  I really need a proper coach but alas, my situation really doesn't allow for it so hopefully things work out over time.  

[VideoHere]

Folks,

 

Please understand...there is nothing wrong with pulling up chest voice or doing loud exercises and taking the chest voice up high.

 

Nothing. Because it's all one voice.

 

You need to go there!  Experience that block, that feeling of being stuck.  It's only then that you begin to understand that you need to narrow the voice and shift resonance and release the tone to go higher.

 

Support and the vowel is key to the process.  It's the vowel/vowel shade that let's you up.

 

This "light and right" is not the only way to the holy grail. There are times where you really need to sing loud and train those muscles that adduct your folds.

 

You have to learn to develop a release so that the chest voice rides up too.

[Danielformica]

there is something wrong if you don't have the coordination down. if you keep getting louder you will have a ceiling to your voice. its like any other skill take golf if you have horrible coordination and swing as hard as you can you won't be a very good golfer but if you get the coordination and as time goes by more power will come as you swing correctly. 

[Jeremy Mohler]

Folks,

 

Please understand...there is nothing wrong with pulling up chest voice or doing loud exercises and taking the chest voice up high.

 

Nothing. Because it's all one voice.

 

You need to go there!  Experience that block, that feeling of being stuck.  It's only then that you begin to understand that you need to narrow the voice and shift resonance and release the tone to go higher.

 

Support and the vowel is key to the process.  It's the vowel/vowel shade that let's you up.

 

This "light and right" is not the only way to the holy grail. There are times where you really need to sing loud and train those muscles that adduct your folds.

 

You have to learn to develop a release so that the chest voice rides up too.

 

I agree with what you are saying here for sure but in my personal case it's like this:  I've been trying to stretch my range by pulling chest for three years now and it just isn't working.  The "light and right" approach is a brand new course of action in my training as to see if it helps to get the feeling of bridging properly firmly in place.  As of right now, even with careful attention to shading the vowels to something like "O" as in "woman" + focusing on support sensations I still hit a distinct ceiling around the same spot every time.  I believe it's just different strokes for different folks, there are people that could benefit from dropping the light stuff and going full belt in their practice more often and vice versa.  I hope that comes across right, I am admittedly quite amateur with this stuff so feel free to correct my ramblings.  

[KillerKu]

I agree with what you are saying here for sure but in my personal case it's like this:  I've been trying to stretch my range by pulling chest for three years now and it just isn't working.  The "light and right" approach is a brand new course of action in my training as to see if it helps to get the feeling of bridging properly firmly in place.  As of right now, even with careful attention to shading the vowels to something like "O" as in "woman" + focusing on support sensations I still hit a distinct ceiling around the same spot every time.  I believe it's just different strokes for different folks, there are people that could benefit from dropping the light stuff and going full belt in their practice more often and vice versa.  I hope that comes across right, I am admittedly quite amateur with this stuff so feel free to correct my ramblings.  

 

You should try any sound that takes your interest, imo. If you try bringing backwards from a lighter phonation and it doesn't work. Then push chest again. Heh.

 

I pushed chest for 3 years or there about too. Personally I'm really glad I sat down with Eddie Kendricks in my singing adventures.

 

 

Such a cool tone. Even my personal favorite falsetto singing hero mixed resonances now and then though: Check out 1:55 you can hear a Stevie Wonder kind of timbre starting to appear into his trademark falsetto..

 

If I add more resonance to falsetto (it's kind of a yawnish hoot), support well, twang it up, and make it plaintive, it kind of does that. When I saw Daniel Formica do that 'hoo' thing as warming up his 'head voice.' kind of the Michael Jackson sound, it made sense to me.

 

So yeah, don't be afraid of the heavier or lighter sounds. Find whatever works for you.

 

Edit:

 

On a side observation, I often see singing instructors on youtube videos talking about falsetto, and as soon as they mention it they start heaving out air like comical amounts or making extremely pinched sounds as if the highest note in Staying Alive is the only way to produce a falsetto sound. And then they follow with like, 'well.... Falsetto does exist if that is what you want to sound like.....'

 

It sounds pretty unpalatable compared to like Al Green, Eddie Kendricks, or Daniel Formica. Is falsetto not something most voice teachers train? I know people can't master every style of singing on the planet and have to prioritize their interest. But you'd think you'd put your best foot forward when describing something. If I were to talk about 'full voice' I could make some pretty unpalatable full voice sounds and then make the most heavenly falsetto I could muster and it's not exactly a fair comparison.

[Jeremy Mohler]

Nice link, definitely my kinda tune hehe.  My personal favorite "falsetto" user is probably Smokey though.  

 

 

And also, I'm not sure why some people treat falsetto sounds in a kind of joking way when they describe it.  I definitely have seen examples of what you talk about in videos before as well.  I think it's important to treat all aspects of the voice with equal respect to their potential.  As you said, someone who sang in nothing but gorgeous head voice could make some barking sounds in "full voice" and go, "See, just doesn't sound good!"  Hahaha..

[VideoHere]

I agree with what you are saying here for sure but in my personal case it's like this:  I've been trying to stretch my range by pulling chest for three years now and it just isn't working.  The "light and right" approach is a brand new course of action in my training as to see if it helps to get the feeling of bridging properly firmly in place.  As of right now, even with careful attention to shading the vowels to something like "O" as in "woman" + focusing on support sensations I still hit a distinct ceiling around the same spot every time.  I believe it's just different strokes for different folks, there are people that could benefit from dropping the light stuff and going full belt in their practice more often and vice versa.  I hope that comes across right, I am admittedly quite amateur with this stuff so feel free to correct my ramblings.  

 

You have to train the head voice and get it stronger too.  If you keep trying to do it with chest voice musculature alone you'll never learn how to pare down and narrow. Get acquainted with vowels such as "aw" and "oo." These are vowels (throat shapes) which allow the voice to narrow, and release and carve.

 

Do some falsetto work and top down exercises which will teach the voice to overlap some of the chest voice range. You want to get the head voice to a strength where it's converging on chest voice and causing it to yield some of it's raw power over to head voice.

 

An exercise I do which I have found very helpful is a siren on the word "meow" but you elongate the pronunciation so you can hear how the vowels set you up to drop you into a headier coordination without losing some of the chest voice on the way up. Sing it on the loud side (full voice) without altering volume or moving to falsetto.

 

The "meow" needs to be dome nice and slow (about 8 to 10 seconds from beginning to end). Remember, it's "meow"..not "meah" and keep space in the back of the throat. 

 

Support well and don't do them more than a minute or so till you get used to them. Concentrate and hear those vowel sounds contained in this word and how as you pass through them, they instigate narrowing. Try them and let me know how it makes you feel.  Bob

[Jeremy Mohler]

You have to train the head voice and get it stronger too.  If you keep trying to do it with chest voice musculature alone you'll never learn how to pare down and narrow. Get acquainted with vowels such as "aw" and "oo." These are vowels (throat shapes) which allow the voice to narrow, and release and carve.

 

Do some falsetto work and top down exercises which will teach the voice to overlap some of the chest voice range. You want to get the head voice to a strength where it's converging on chest voice and causing it to yield some of it's raw power over to head voice.

 

An exercise I do which I have found very helpful is a siren on the word "meow" but you elongate the pronunciation so you can hear how the vowels set you up to drop you into a headier coordination without losing some of the chest voice on the way up. Sing it on the loud side (full voice) without altering volume or moving to falsetto.

 

The "meow" needs to be dome nice and slow (about 8 to 10 seconds from beginning to end). Remember, it's "meow"..not "meah" and keep space in the back of the throat. 

 

Support well and don't do them more than a minute or so till you get used to them. Concentrate and hear those vowel sounds contained in this word and how as you pass through them, they instigate narrowing. Try them and let me know how it makes you feel.  Bob

 

Man, I really appreciate you taking the time to share these great tips.  That goes for all of you guys who have been helping me out here but thanks especially for this post.