Relative pitch problems continue

[etekiller]

So I've been training my ear-voice coordination for a few weeks now. I am able to hit notes when singing to piano keys (sometimes I have to "bend into" them, but it's almost instant and I don't have to bend that much, just a little bit). I am able to sing intervals when they're being played on a piano too.

 

This, however, didn't help me with singing songs on pitch. I find it extremely hard to hit the right note while singing some songs. And I don't mean that it's out of my range, it's easily in my range, I sometimes even overshoot greatly.

 

When I listen to the original version of a song (with artist's vocal track) then it's pretty easy for me to hit the notes. Really, as if I recieved +1000 singing skill points every time I sang with the artist. While singing to instrumentals I sometimes can't even begin the song correctly. I am right away off pitch. I checked with AutoTune, while singing with the artist - it's a bullseye, when I am singing to an instrumental - I miss some notes.

 

Why am I able to "nail" notes while singing to a piano, but completely fail while singing songs? It makes no sense whatsoever. This does not seem to be a problem with my technique because when I sing with an artist's vocal track I simply nail the notes too.

 

What could I be doing wrong?

[MDEW]

     Work with the melody of a song that is giving you trouble.

play the melody on the piano and sing with it, then sing without the piano....Kind of back and forth between the two.Vowels have their own "Pitch" and tongue postion....also the tension of the vocal folds can be different between vowels on the same pitch. So you may nail an "EE" every time but but go sharp or flat with an "UH"....... When you think about it their are many variables that can pull you off pitch.....That is why the need to practice with all vowels.

    Find the vowel that works best for you and Sing your pitch with that vowel first and cycle through the other vowels.......Some different schools may also have you cycle through the vowels in a specific order to work out the calibration of vowels.

   Keep the same pitch...."Eh" "EE" "Ah" "Oh" "OO".....UP a pitch......."Eh" "EE" "Ah" "Oh" "OO"..........Repeat as necessary.

[etekiller]

Okay, thank you. I will now incorporate those tips into my training.

[KillerKu]

Hold out one note on the piano (say a C) then intend to hit a G with your voice (or any different note). Then hit the G afterward to 'check' how close you were. Relative pitch is very useful as a 'metric' stick.

 

You need a Point A and a point B to measure. If you keep repeating point A but never create a point B it will be a longer, more difficult, and slower journey. So keep Point A roted to a single note on the piano, and make point B with your voice a different note. Most songs are in a 'key signature.' Consciously or subconsciously setting the root pitch to the resolving tone (tonic) is easier than trying to constantly move the foundation.

 

Think of it like you're measuring the height of a building to see how high a window is. The ground would be the reference point A, and the window would be reference point B. If you keep moving point A (the ground) it's tough to learn how to go from a 'fixed' position.

 

Hope that helps. I had to learn this the hard way too.

[ronws]

Vocal exercises are often on one vowel, either open or semi-occluded. 

 

Singing involves lyrics, which are changing consonants and timing.

 

But one of the answers to the problem is vowels. Clean up the vowels and the notes clean up. It is easier to write that than it is to make it effective. Even I still get tripped up by improper vowel usage.

[KillerKu]

Vocal exercises are often on one vowel, either open or semi-occluded. 

 

Singing involves lyrics, which are changing consonants and timing.

 

But one of the answers to the problem is vowels. Clean up the vowels and the notes clean up. It is easier to write that than it is to make it effective. Even I still get tripped up by improper vowel usage.

 

Yup use all vowels in your exercises. But you can also practice switching vowels and dip thongs.

 

Ate, eat, eyes, oats, oops

At, ebb,  in, on, up

 

air,  ear, fire, oar, are  (the R ones can trip people up)

 

book, cook, etc (not one of the primary but is still different from ooh)

 

You can use all vowels on a scale, all vowels on a siren. All vowels on a song. I was having problems with 'share' in a song awhile back. When I sang it breathy, it was perfectly in tune, and when I gave it more overtones, it started sounding funky. Still not sure what to do about that.

[m.i.r.]

Even when I first started singing I had pretty dead to balls pitch, just from the instrumental back ground. Well I knew the note to hit, maybe the actual physical process of hitting was surely an issue early on ha ha ha. Big voice and not enough compression equals mister flat lol. So I never got the experience of starting from true scratch singing.

However, as killer said saying the name of the note out loud. For some reason that helps me a ton if I get out of whack or something. Or if I need a starting point and there is no source of pitch around.

If I want an a4, I know its in my mix and the general feeling of a4. So in my mix I say A in the tone I think is an a, I will usually be dead on the money. However, if I just try to pull a A out of my ying yang, may be a bit sharp or flat. Dont know why it works but it does.

Also as mdew said, singing along while hitting the notes on the piano is a big help as well. On a melody thats giving you issues. Remember, its all muscle memory. Even the people born with perfect pitch, sure they can tell you the note, doesnt mean they can sing it.

So work with the piano, and memorize what all the feelings of different notes feel like. Once the muscle memory is there, you will not over shoot the notes near as bad. Opera singers go almost completely off of feel, as between everything going on and their own voice. Its very difficult to pick everything out hearing wise, since there is no actual monitoring.

[Sexy Beast]

etekiller,

 

Here are some exercises I use:

 

- Vocal exercises on simple patterns. Something like: 1-2-3-2-1 (C D E D E in C-major) or "Do a deer" if you're familiar with "the sound of music". You can do something like this: First play the pattern on the piano, sing it (without piano), check yourself if you need to and move to an other key. You can sometimes play the pattern while singing it but the goal is to keep that to a minimum!

 

As you get better with this try give yourself just a starting note on the piano and see if you can sing the pattern.

 

Once you know this pattern well try and learn other simple patterns. The idea is that you build memory for different patterns - this will help you sing in pitch because those patterns are already in the songs that you sing.

 

- Play a simple chord on the piano (minor or major) and try to sing just one note from the chord. Check yourself. If you can't find a correct note, play one and then sing it over the chord. You don't need to know if you're singing the root, 3rd or 5th just sing what you hear! This is a good ear training exercise. When you sing melodies most of the time you will be singing into a chord meaning the melody note will be in the chord.

 

If this is easy try and sing 2 notes, etc...

 

- Pick an easy song with an easy repetitive melody and put it into audacity or something. Play the first phrase a couple of times and really listen. Sing the phrase acapella first then sing it with the original singer to check yourself. Repeat until you know this phrase perfectly then you can move on to the next one. Once you know the next one try them both together, etc...

[etekiller]

WOW. These tips are AMAZING, guys. It's really a very technical insight into training that I was looking for. I love all the technicality, I absolutely enjoy training when I know exactly what to practice and why.

 

Hold out one note on the piano (say a C) then intend to hit a G with your voice (or any different note). Then hit the G afterward to 'check' how close you were. Relative pitch is very useful as a 'metric' stick.

 

You need a Point A and a point B to measure. If you keep repeating point A but never create a point B it will be a longer, more difficult, and slower journey. So keep Point A roted to a single note on the piano, and make point B with your voice a different note. Most songs are in a 'key signature.' Consciously or subconsciously setting the root pitch to the resolving tone (tonic) is easier than trying to constantly move the foundation.

 

Think of it like you're measuring the height of a building to see how high a window is. The ground would be the reference point A, and the window would be reference point B. If you keep moving point A (the ground) it's tough to learn how to go from a 'fixed' position.

 

Hope that helps. I had to learn this the hard way too.

 

Yes, I remember you telling me to practice this way, I've been doing it for a couple of days, I am very strict about it and I practice it every single day . I understood everything you said, thank you very much!

 

 

Vocal exercises are often on one vowel, either open or semi-occluded. 

 

Singing involves lyrics, which are changing consonants and timing.

 

But one of the answers to the problem is vowels. Clean up the vowels and the notes clean up. It is easier to write that than it is to make it effective. Even I still get tripped up by improper vowel usage.

 

Great, what you and MDEW said is what I was suspecting to be my biggest problem. Now I am pretty sure that this is the case. Thank you so much .

 

 

Yup use all vowels in your exercises. But you can also practice switching vowels and dip thongs.

 

Ate, eat, eyes, oats, oops

At, ebb,  in, on, up

 

air,  ear, fire, oar, are  (the R ones can trip people up)

 

book, cook, etc (not one of the primary but is still different from ooh)

 

You can use all vowels on a scale, all vowels on a siren. All vowels on a song. I was having problems with 'share' in a song awhile back. When I sang it breathy, it was perfectly in tune, and when I gave it more overtones, it started sounding funky. Still not sure what to do about that.

 

Hmm, maybe I will write a song with my own melody and incorporate tough words in it. This could be a "workout song" for every day, I suppose . And by the way, maybe I could give you a tip for that "share" word, I had a similar problem. I added a little bit of vocal fry to the phrase during transition and it was easier to keep the same pitch between breathy and chesty. Maybe that will help .
 

 

Even when I first started singing I had pretty dead to balls pitch, just from the instrumental back ground. Well I knew the note to hit, maybe the actual physical process of hitting was surely an issue early on ha ha ha. Big voice and not enough compression equals mister flat lol. So I never got the experience of starting from true scratch singing.

However, as killer said saying the name of the note out loud. For some reason that helps me a ton if I get out of whack or something. Or if I need a starting point and there is no source of pitch around.

If I want an a4, I know its in my mix and the general feeling of a4. So in my mix I say A in the tone I think is an a, I will usually be dead on the money. However, if I just try to pull a A out of my ying yang, may be a bit sharp or flat. Dont know why it works but it does.

Also as mdew said, singing along while hitting the notes on the piano is a big help as well. On a melody thats giving you issues. Remember, its all muscle memory. Even the people born with perfect pitch, sure they can tell you the note, doesnt mean they can sing it.

So work with the piano, and memorize what all the feelings of different notes feel like. Once the muscle memory is there, you will not over shoot the notes near as bad. Opera singers go almost completely off of feel, as between everything going on and their own voice. Its very difficult to pick everything out hearing wise, since there is no actual monitoring.

 

Yeah, one thing I never knew was - how do people who can reproduce exactly what they hear feel before, during and after hitting a note? Is that like playing a very well known piano part, where your fingers seem to be "thinking on their own", or does it involve more conscious control?

 

 

etekiller,

 

Here are some exercises I use:

 

- Vocal exercises on simple patterns. Something like: 1-2-3-2-1 (C D E D E in C-major) or "Do a deer" if you're familiar with "the sound of music". You can do something like this: First play the pattern on the piano, sing it (without piano), check yourself if you need to and move to an other key. You can sometimes play the pattern while singing it but the goal is to keep that to a minimum!

 

As you get better with this try give yourself just a starting note on the piano and see if you can sing the pattern.

 

Once you know this pattern well try and learn other simple patterns. The idea is that you build memory for different patterns - this will help you sing in pitch because those patterns are already in the songs that you sing.

 

- Play a simple chord on the piano (minor or major) and try to sing just one note from the chord. Check yourself. If you can't find a correct note, play one and then sing it over the chord. You don't need to know if you're singing the root, 3rd or 5th just sing what you hear! This is a good ear training exercise. When you sing melodies most of the time you will be singing into a chord meaning the melody note will be in the chord.

 

If this is easy try and sing 2 notes, etc...

 

- Pick an easy song with an easy repetitive melody and put it into audacity or something. Play the first phrase a couple of times and really listen. Sing the phrase acapella first then sing it with the original singer to check yourself. Repeat until you know this phrase perfectly then you can move on to the next one. Once you know the next one try them both together, etc...

 

Yes, chords are EXTREMELY difficult for me to sing to. I can hear when I nail them, but there is not enough muscle memory to sing to them correctly. Thank you for that tip and the pattern info, I love it.

 

I absolutely love those responses, I didn't expect to get that much information, thank you so much.

I've got one more question - should I be practicing from the bottom to the top of my range? Or should I stay within a "very comfortable" zone? I ask because I had an appointment with a teacher, and after giving me a few tips she told me that I have a range of 4 octaves (up to A6, but at that point my voice stops being stable, so I suppose that G6 is the highest "normal" note for me) and that it might be hard to train that whole range at once. Is that true? Does a higher range mean more training? My speaking voice is at F3.

[Sexy Beast]

 

I've got one more question - should I be practicing from the bottom to the top of my range? Or should I stay within a "very comfortable" zone? I ask because I had an appointment with a teacher, and after giving me a few tips she told me that I have a range of 4 octaves (up to A6, but at that point my voice stops being stable, so I suppose that G6 is the highest "normal" note for me) and that it might be hard to train that whole range at once. Is that true? Does a higher range mean more training? My speaking voice is at F3.

 

If you have trouble with pitch that should be your first concern.

[etekiller]

Okay, but should I practice pitch on my whole range right away, or be mostly concerned with notes that are closer to my speaking voice?

[Sexy Beast]

In your easy speaking range first.