New video on Trust

[Danielformica]

Hey guys here's a new video on trust with a little Ed Sherran and Marvin Gaye..

 

[Jeremy Mohler]

Cool, thanks man.  Keep em coming, nice to hear your tips. 

[Elvis]

This is why IMO "how to sing like" videos from teachers are preety beneficial in deciding what teacher/proggram im gonna follow. Showing his ability to sing different styles and what not that im into helps me cement the trust in them. 

 

ill take you Daniel for example. If u went gu gu gu gi gi gi and have not show some of those singing clips, i would probably be like "meh he's just doing some stupid sounds and some silly siren's, i dont want to be alerting the neighours about fire, i wanna SING"...but showing me your ability to sing, i start trusting you that this Gu gu gu exercise actually works.

 

Ive seen TONS of vocal coaches on the internet who just talk endlessly on end, and while i feel im learning smething i dont actually trust them enough because i havent hear them sing.

 

This happened to me with Brent Manning. Maybe SS is awesoe and BM is best in the world, but when i finally heard him sing, i wanst impressed at all. Thats what actually drove me away and then i found some other vocal coach who i really liked.

 

Bassically what im trying to say, TRUST has to be EARNED. And the only way im gonna trust someone is that they prove me they are trustworthy. In singing, for me, that would be showing some credential, and the best credential in singing, is to actually sing.

[ronws]

This is why IMO "how to sing like" videos from teachers are preety beneficial in deciding what teacher/proggram im gonna follow. Showing his ability to sing different styles and what not that im into helps me cement the trust in them. 

 

ill take you Daniel for example. If u went gu gu gu gi gi gi and have not show some of those singing clips, i would probably be like "meh he's just doing some stupid sounds and some silly siren's, i dont want to be alerting the neighours about fire, i wanna SING"...but showing me your ability to sing, i start trusting you that this Gu gu gu exercise actually works.

 

Ive seen TONS of vocal coaches on the internet who just talk endlessly on end, and while i feel im learning smething i dont actually trust them enough because i havent hear them sing.

 

This happened to me with Brent Manning. Maybe SS is awesoe and BM is best in the world, but when i finally heard him sing, i wanst impressed at all. Thats what actually drove me away and then i found some other vocal coach who i really liked.

 

Bassically what im trying to say, TRUST has to be EARNED. And the only way im gonna trust someone is that they prove me they are trustworthy. In singing, for me, that would be showing some credential, and the best credential in singing, is to actually sing.

I don't know that videos showing how to sing like another singer are as helpful as a video or two showing the strength of that training in different genres. But also, it is more important that you,the student, become an awesome singer than the teacher to be super-famous. 

 

In fact, go ahead and name a big time singer who went on to teach it instead of singing until they died or became so old they can't get around, anymore.

 

Now, go ahead and name a vocal teacher you heard about as a member of general population before searching for such things. And actually, what Daniel is saying that you really need to pick a direction and stick with it. Trust that the method will get you to where you are going and don't constantly barrage your teacher with "well, what about this guy" and then drop your teacher because he doesn't engage in the shoot-out.

 

But you raise a good counter point. What if you become dissatisfied with a current teacher or the instruction is not getting you to where you need to go? And who are you to judge that? Who would I be to judge that?

 

So, you don't like the way that BM sings and that's okay. Was the instruction now, all of a sudden bad or not worth it? I am not confronting you, I think these are valid questions to ask.

 

Is the singing ability of the teacher an indicator of the validity of his teaching?

 

Or the style. Robert Lunte likes to sing prog and has absorbed some of the west coast accent. Are we to assume that his instruction is only good for that genre and that following it will may you sound like you are from the Pacific Northwest?

[ronws]

Also, I think that singing has some basic rules and each genre can benefit from style coaching. That is, you can lighten like Daniel does in the video and use that in any genre but you have to trust your teacher that the exercise will get you there even if it is not right this second in the age of instant gratification.

[Elvis]

Also, I think that singing has some basic rules and each genre can benefit from style coaching. That is, you can lighten like Daniel does in the video and use that in any genre but you have to trust your teacher that the exercise will get you there even if it is not right this second in the age of instant gratification.

Ok to answer some questions.

I specifically said that BM might be the best of the best but it just doesent move me to trust him.

2. Singing ability is deffinatlly ,for me, a factor. Why would i trust a teacher that his method is great if he himself has a bad singing voice. Isnt it logical that if the proggram works, he would also be able to use it for himself?

3. If a teacher can sing in many different styles. To me that shows he can pick out just from hearing a singer, what kind of physiological configuration he uses AND knows how to employ them. Which for me is a sign that a teacher is knowledgable and is able to troubleshoot problems in my voice by hearing me.

Also i wont name any succesfull singer who started coaching, but im sure with simple googling skills you can find a few.

Also ask yourself. Would you listen to my advices blindly about singing before you are introduced to my abilities or would you take them with a grain of salt?

i just think of something. When Daniel isbtalking about the relationship.

Arent you first attracted to a female for her looks and then proceed to learn more about them? Same thing for teacher. You see him sing great, you get hooked and proceed to learn more about him. If u like them then u create a relationship, if not, your off to another coach/girl.

This is just my opinion, dont get mad :)

[ronws]

Ok to answer some questions.

I specifically said that BM might be the best of the best but it just doesent move me to trust him.

2. Singing ability is deffinatlly ,for me, a factor. Why would i trust a teacher that his method is great if he himself has a bad singing voice. Isnt it logical that if the proggram works, he would also be able to use it for himself?

3. If a teacher can sing in many different styles. To me that shows he can pick out just from hearing a singer, what kind of physiological configuration he uses AND knows how to employ them. Which for me is a sign that a teacher is knowledgable and is able to troubleshoot problems in my voice by hearing me.

Also i wont name any succesfull singer who started coaching, but im sure with simple googling skills you can find a few.

Also ask yourself. Would you listen to my advices blindly about singing before you are introduced to my abilities or would you take them with a grain of salt?

i just think of something. When Daniel isbtalking about the relationship.

Arent you first attracted to a female for her looks and then proceed to learn more about them? Same thing for teacher. You see him sing great, you get hooked and proceed to learn more about him. If u like them then u create a relationship, if not, your off to another coach/girl.

This is just my opinion, dont get mad

I think you misunderstood me. But it is kind of heart-warming to see you defiantly refuse to answer a challenge. Okay, you don't have to do any of that, and obviously won't. by the way, the answer is you won't find it. And I was talking about names that would have been known before Google, like maybe when I was a kid or a young man. I know it's a shock but there existed a world before google. But even then, teaching singers were simply unknown, behind the scenes.

 

I also agree that I would expect a singing teacher to be able to sing but there are a few examples of singing teachers who can no longer sing and for some of them, teaching singing was a passion that they could share with others.

 

You see, I agree with you, that a teacher should be able to sing. But it is not necessarily a requirement, as some are good at teaching, if they are no longer able to sing well. But if you could, as I am a bit confused and you might know more than I do, can you clarify how the sound of a singing teacher validates or invalidates their teaching. Are you saying that if the teacher has sound that is "weak" then it is result of his own teaching? And weak in comparison to what? Again, I am not being confrontational, I am not trying to pick a fight. Or, you could forget I asked if this is all going to get you mad.

 

And, for what it is worth, I don't particularly like the two live videos people show of BM singing but he put out a good album and I also don't think it means that his singing instruction is invalid. For, he has associate teachers who sound mighty fine, to me.

[Elvis]

I think you misunderstood me. But it is kind of heart-warming to see you defiantly refuse to answer a challenge. Okay, you don't have to do any of that, and obviously won't. by the way, the answer is you won't find it. And I was talking about names that would have been known before Google, like maybe when I was a kid or a young man. I know it's a shock but there existed a world before google. But even then, teaching singers were simply unknown, behind the scenes.

I also agree that I would expect a singing teacher to be able to sing but there are a few examples of singing teachers who can no longer sing and for some of them, teaching singing was a passion that they could share with others.

You see, I agree with you, that a teacher should be able to sing. But it is not necessarily a requirement, as some are good at teaching, if they are no longer able to sing well. But if you could, as I am a bit confused and you might know more than I do, can you clarify how the sound of a singing teacher validates or invalidates their teaching. Are you saying that if the teacher has sound that is "weak" then it is result of his own teaching? And weak in comparison to what? Again, I am not being confrontational, I am not trying to pick a fight. Or, you could forget I asked if this is all going to get you mad.

And, for what it is worth, I don't particularly like the two live videos people show of BM singing but he put out a good album and I also don't think it means that his singing instruction is invalid. For, he has associate teachers who sound mighty fine, to me.

Ron dont get me wrong. This is not confrontation, just 2 ppl sharing opinions.

To answer you. People who cant sing ANYMORE but teach, can also prove they used to know abd that is enough for me.

2. Whenbi said "how to" videos i didnt mean to say they sound exactly like them but instead employ the same technique like him.

3. Whats weak and strong i dont know. But i do know that if u give comparissonvi can find out. If teacher says Robert Plant uses XY technique then proceed to demonstrate the technique in a convincing manner i would trust him that he knows whats what because he just showed me.

Also ronws...this is all basedbon the assumption that singing is a skill that can be learned by anyone that posses basic requirements (ability to hear frequency differences and can phonate)

If singing is inherited by birth and people cant actuallybsing anyway they want too... then i retract everything i said... butbi believe that singing is a learnable skill.

Edit: im on my mobile phone so excuse my grammar errors

Edit2: ron i refused challenge because i know only 1 and his name is a bit conttoversial here but herebit goes.

Ken Tamplin..i listebed to alot of 80s metal and i was an avid fan of his before i even wanted or liked to sing. And imo he is one of the few vocal coached who i can trust as his prowess is exactly in the style i want to sing and hebis able to back up his claims with ALOT of famous singers who studied under him. Let the gamesvbegin!

Im gonna regret my "edit2", but what the hell ;)

[KillerKu]

In retrospect, almost everything I've encountered about voice has some context, but I think understanding context is very important. If you bounce around here and there without context it puts you at risk.

 

That's one of the things that is most missing in a lot of the material I encountered, even in books. Having a one on one relationship with a teacher would give you a great context for anything you're doing. That example of giving the student an exercise on doing something light and then having them come back pushing it is perfect.  

 

The only thing I would advise people universally is to not manipulate your body when singing like with your hands.   Specifically, just to be on the safe side, I wouldn't hold your tongue out while singing with your hand. Maybe manipulating the body with your hands helps some people, but I have nerve damage in my tongue now and it's possible it is related, but I'll never know. I honestly believe you can learn to sing any style with no external mechanisms involved in singing. 

 

So if you find a good teacher or program:

 

1. Make sure you understand 'why' you are doing it

2. Make sure you understand 'how' you are supposed to do it

3. Sing it as instructed (volume, lightness, range, vowels, etc)

4. Listen to your body, if it feels wrong, it is wrong

 

Above all else, 'just sing.' I've made a lot of progress after my setbacks and a big part of has been a less urgent attitude to 'fix' things that aren't broken. I was scared out of my mind after encountering material that said I'd ruin my voice forever if I kept a shouty kind of config, which led me into that state of mind daniel is talking about where I was bouncing around everywhere trying to find a solution and doing all sorts of things I shouldn't be doing. It was during that time I got the health problems.

 

I've found progress goes faster if I just chill with a very casual attitude towards singing. You relax, you don't worry, and you don't hurry. You just sing. I've made way more progress than I ever pictured and most of the time it's not a magic trick. It's just, chilling out, working on things and letting things come.

[ronws]

No regrets, Elvis, you answered the challenge. Although, I would also add that knowing of Ken is a bit more of a musician thing. That is, a true music fan such as you will have heard all bands, including the christian bands he has been in.

 

Another one I can think of is Jim Gillette, from Nitro. But even in the late 80's, you saw his ads if you read Guitar World magazine, for example. I think the format was cassette tapes and VHS. That is when I first heard of him. Then, again, come to think of it, there were not a lot of "known" teachers in any instrument. So, that is a hard question to answer. So, I guess familiarity with known teachers is relative to one's field of study.

[KillerKu]

Elvis, a teacher that can sing many styles (you are interested in), demonstrate them, and teach them might be ideal. However, 'teach' is still a crucial word.

 

Singing is internal and involves a lot of intuition and sensations. Being able to sing something does not mean you can teach something. It really helps to know anatomy, physiological function as it relates to singing, music theory, acoustics/resonance, and such as they relate to vocal placement, in addition to what it 'feels' like for oneself, and maybe as importantly what it 'might' feel ilke for others when they sing something. 

 

It's why even if you or I can sing something, it doesn't always mean we are best equipped to teach it, as the ideal teacher would have all of these capabilties 'and' be able to transfer them in a way that is understandable, concise.

 

Being able to manipulate internal mechanisms of the body doesn't mean you can necessarily teach it. So that's basically the split right there.

 

Now, i really like Daniel's way of viewing voice. In some ways his approach is similar to what I do in a more refined way of lightening the voice. I even saw a 'nook' vowel kind exercise (without the k) that looked really really useful for finding a middle kind of voice without pressing, straining, holding, or whatever:

 

 

Almost everything he says in every video lines up perfectly with what I've learned in my voice, although personally I have a preference to roar and wail with heavier voices than he demonstrates in my lower range which is comfortable for me. However those sounds have pitch limits and lightening is a great way to keep going. I haven't trained with him, but he is probably a good example of someone that can sing these various styles and teach them.

 

Just be sure, that doesn't mean everyone who can sing all of these styles would be a good teacher. So take care not to be seduced by a voice alone.

[Elvis]

No regrets, Elvis, you answered the challenge. Although, I would also add that knowing of Ken is a bit more of a musician thing. That is, a true music fan such as you will have heard all bands, including the christian bands he has been in.

Another one I can think of is Jim Gillette, from Nitro. But even in the late 80's, you saw his ads if you read Guitar World magazine, for example. I think the format was cassette tapes and VHS. That is when I first heard of him. Then, again, come to think of it, there were not a lot of "known" teachers in any instrument. So, that is a hard question to answer. So, I guess familiarity with known teachers is relative to one's field of study.

Well with this i agree completely :)

[MDEW]

     Thanks for the Vid Daniel,

     I thought you would go in the direction of "Trust your Voice" to break the habit of stopping yourself from progress by holding back or being afraid of damage or something like that. Most of the exercises or Videos that I have seen on the internet pretty much say the same thing to one degree or another whether it is Jazz, Opera Grunge, Metal.........when it comes to exercises or training.  The singers all sound different.

    I think my view of technique is different from what I have found on the internet.....Which also leads to why people would search from teacher to teacher and want to review their singing. Technique to me would be HOW to make those sounds........What it is that is different from the Style of  Jackie Wilson and say Dean Martin or Frank Sinatra.

   There is a certain sound that came from Southern Rock singers that is different from metal singers on the same pitches. Same goes for Opera.

   What does this have to do with the subject at hand?   The training is the same regardless..... The exercises lead to the same goal...... It does not mean that the teacher is no good because he sounds Metal and not Southern rock or progressive or Italian or North Western US. Trust in the Teacher and the exercises.

  Until you get some kind of understanding you will not have the knowledge to judge the teacher.

[Danielformica]

The thing I'm trying to get across in the video is if you have a teacher or a program or book yet you don't trust it so you keep going on YouTube thinking there is a secret you are doing yourself a disservice and not learning to the capacity you could be. Anything you have ever learned well in your life has been because you immersed yourself in it and trusted it. Think of your first language you didn't question it and you learned it just fine. trusting will allow you to have a clear mind so you learn faster and more proficient.

[Elvis]

The thing I'm trying to get across in the video is if you have a teacher or a program or book yet you don't trust it so you keep going on YouTube thinking there is a secret you are doing yourself a disservice and not learning to the capacity you could be. Anything you have ever learned well in your life has been because you immersed yourself in it and trusted it. Think of your first language you didn't question it and you learned it just fine. trusting will allow you to have a clear mind so you learn faster and more proficient.

Yea but i have 4million ppl speaking it and prove that it serves its purpose.

And when avarage salary in croatia is 400$, as a self sustaining student who lives alone i will rhink twice before i payy 200+$ for anything

[KillerKu]

The thing I'm trying to get across in the video is if you have a teacher or a program or book yet you don't trust it so you keep going on YouTube thinking there is a secret you are doing yourself a disservice and not learning to the capacity you could be. Anything you have ever learned well in your life has been because you immersed yourself in it and trusted it. Think of your first language you didn't question it and you learned it just fine. trusting will allow you to have a clear mind so you learn faster and more proficient.

 

I definitely have trust of you. But I wouldn't go so far as trusting any book or teacher you find either. But if people are on this forum, they have the resources to find someone who is likely good.   

 

I do feel some affinity with Bob sometimes on the whole light is right thing. I would like to learn to sing more like you over time with control, but off cam do you ever sing with more weight? You have great timbre, and you sound passionate, but as a singer, I like both the sensations as a singer exertion and the sound of weight.

 

You said you were classified as a baritone, but I comfortably make weightier timbres. Is it a sound preference, or is it more of a specialization thing? Like keep the instrument in coordination?

[Danielformica]

Killer being classified only matters much in classical or choral. You can sing any type you wish your sound will depend slightly on the shape of your instrument like a horn or guitar or drum. The various distance of the larynx to the back of the throat, the mouth shape, the palate, tonsils. I'm sure all these things which direct the sound waves differently contributes to your sound. And with manipulation I can sound heavier or lighter. Sometimes this manipulation will come with a cost like any extreme sounds and sound of not being natural to your voice. But thats style and what a gig calls for.

[Elvis]

elvis did you know these 4 million people when you were 3 years old? That's my point you trusted unconditionally so the immersion of the language came easy. That's all I'm saying. If you didn't the road to that language would have been dragged out. Because your thinking well what if this language is right or this one. Singing isn't rocket science there are not many things different in technique, in style yes you can sound and do things to make crazy sounds but legit vocal technique does not vary.

My cognitive funtions were not developed to an extent where i could make a sound judgement, but i had a parent who had ebough experience in life to make decisions for me.

As for vocal technique. IMO it does vary. If it wouldnt we would have come to a consensus for everything, instead we have 1milkion terms for 5 differeNt stuff.

And while i agree the basics are the same, i believe that there is so much more to vocal technique than the statement "everyone teaches the same thing, but terminology is different"..

Also im not trying to argue with you im just stating the fact that if vocal coaches cant come to a consensus why would we students of singing come to one.

There is so much inconsistency that its absolutely a challenge picking the right course.

Maybe not for you, but for me it is.

[Danielformica]

I understand your frustration. Bit of advice look past the terms and just listen to the sounds closely. And I'm sure you will find your path Elvis. I mean with a name like Elvis how could you not 😄

[KillerKu]

Killer being classified only matters much in classical or choral. You can sing any type you wish your sound will depend slightly on the shape of your instrument like a horn or guitar or drum. The various distance of the larynx to the back of the throat, the mouth shape, the palate, tonsils. I'm sure all these things which direct the sound waves differently contributes to your sound.

 

I pretty much agree, outside of maybe singing a voice type too low for us. You can fry or growl, but likely will never be a convincing bass if there isn't space. I don't even think I'd be classified a true baritone, at best a light one.

 

But there are resonators, like the pharynx can be altered in shape (openness tends to create a woofier sound), and certain vowels like 'oh' are lot weightier. You mentioned you have a bit of a top down approach. It sounds really good, but it's light and bright all the way down.

 

Since you sing in a lot of different vocal styles already, I was curious about weightier ones for say a Sinatra esque crooning style. Obviously I don't expect you to carry Tom Jones up to a D5 or whatever he does. I just wonder what you'd sound like.

[Elvis]

I understand your frustration. Bit of advice look past the terms and just listen to the sounds closely. And I'm sure you will find your path Elvis. I mean with a name like Elvis how could you not 😄

You hit the nail on the head. Im probably frustrated with the whole situation that it clouds my judgement. For what is worth i completely agree with your video Daniel.

[Robert Lunte]

The thing I'm trying to get across in the video is if you have a teacher or a program or book yet you don't trust it so you keep going on YouTube thinking there is a secret you are doing yourself a disservice and not learning to the capacity you could be. Anything you have ever learned well in your life has been because you immersed yourself in it and trusted it. Think of your first language you didn't question it and you learned it just fine. trusting will allow you to have a clear mind so you learn faster and more proficient.

 

 

Yes. The point of Daniel's video was that you need to commit to one program or teacher and "trust" that individuals guidance... at least long enough to really work the program and ideas. I think he is hitting at a phenomenon that happens in the student community where people bounce around, from teacher to teacher... usually because, they feel that they are not getting results they think they want. In my experience, this is typically not because of the good teacher's issues... this is usually because the student doesn't practice. 

 

Lets just be honest and cut to the chase... a lot of people, especially younger guys... don't want to work, don't want to train and even if they do, they expect their voices to make radical changes in a few weeks. Im hear to tell you, it doesn't work that way for 9 out of 10 people. It is never my older clients from me and Daniel's generation ... it is Always younger guys that feel that they want it all, now and they are entitled to it.. and if "the teacher can't make them do it"... as if its up to the teacher to do it for them, it must be the teachers fault.  Complete bullshit and lack of accountability ... look in the mirror and honestly ask yourself... are you practicing? Are you training the techniques AND singing.. are you doing both?  Techniques to build strength, coordination and tune the ear... singing to apply it to the art?  If your not doing both of these things... if your not training at least 4-10 hours a week 3-6 days a week in the beginning, your just another YouTube viewer that expects things to happen easy... singing doesn't work that way for most people. It didn't work that way for Daniel, it didn't work that way for me and it doesn't work that way for 9 out of 10 people.

 

You can argue with me on this point until you blue in the face, but this is precisely what I do every day, 30 hours a week. I happen to have an expert perspective on what people's capabilities are and are not... and insights on accountability. I know what it takes.. and most people, especially younger students... tend to not have what it takes to do the work required.  I digress a bit here but... that is part of the problem that Daniel is eluding to.

 

If Daniel or me or any good coach says, "... practice this.. do it this way... and do it for 6 months".. then you need to do it before you cut rope and go to another program... or jump on a forum and complain about it. 

 

Accountability people... accountability... Trust and Accountability go hand in hand... before you can have trust in your teacher or program, you have to have accountability. 

 

Here is a video I recently produced that hits on some issues that I think are important when choosing a coach. A great coach doesn't HAVE to have all of these things going for them, I'm only saying, these are important details on a resume to look for. 

 

[Elvis]

Correct Robert. Beautiful post. But there is a catch. I personally want to know if i will choose wisely when deciding the proggram i want to use because i dont want to waste that kind of money and that kind of time into something that its broken.

That said you know Robert that i picked 4 pillars as a proggramm of choice esspecialy with the new bottom up training. My post just reflect my opinions in a general matter without taking anyone into account.

They dont say "no pain, no gain" in vain

[Robert Lunte]

This is why IMO "how to sing like" videos from teachers are preety beneficial in deciding what teacher/proggram im gonna follow. Showing his ability to sing different styles and what not that im into helps me cement the trust in them. 

 

ill take you Daniel for example. If u went gu gu gu gi gi gi and have not show some of those singing clips, i would probably be like "meh he's just doing some stupid sounds and some silly siren's, i dont want to be alerting the neighours about fire, i wanna SING"...but showing me your ability to sing, i start trusting you that this Gu gu gu exercise actually works.

 

Ive seen TONS of vocal coaches on the internet who just talk endlessly on end, and while i feel im learning smething i dont actually trust them enough because i havent hear them sing.

 

This happened to me with Brent Manning. Maybe SS is awesoe and BM is best in the world, but when i finally heard him sing, i wanst impressed at all. Thats what actually drove me away and then i found some other vocal coach who i really liked.

 

Bassically what im trying to say, TRUST has to be EARNED. And the only way im gonna trust someone is that they prove me they are trustworthy. In singing, for me, that would be showing some credential, and the best credential in singing, is to actually sing.

 

Elvis... your reply here indicates that you are gravitating to the obvious... the obvious is... if you can sing, you can teach. Its a very easy thing to conclude, it is an intuitive idea. And as my video above points out, I do agree with the idea that, if you can sing, you have some additional insights and experience that can be helpful for students... there is certainly merit to that and it is very important.

 

However... it simply is not the whole story.  We have gone over this a million times on this forum... SINGING AND TEACHING ARE NOT THE SAME THING.  They are two different skill sets. I have managed teams of voice teachers... once for TC-Helicon for their Voice Council project and currently today, as the leader of the TVS Certified Instructor Program... and Im flat out telling you.. the ability to sing, does not guarantee that you can teach. And the ability to teach, does not guarantee that you can sing. It would be nice and orderly if that were the case... it would seemingly make the decision for what voice coach to work with easier, but it isn't the reality of the situation.. I have seen people that sing like God.. that will blow your socks off... but they can NOT teach themselves out of a paper bag. I have seen this many times... they can't diagnose singers, they fail to hear the problems in the voice when they are presented it, and they stumble and fumble about in trying to explain what a student should do.. they don't have the ears to diagnose and they don't have the ability to communicate effectively to help people the way they need to be helped.

 

I have been in many voice teaching sessions as an observer and had to literally say, "... Stop. Let me take over from here..."... because the teacher I was observing was missing clue after clue... was failing miserably on what to tell the student to do. Was failing miserably on what was really going on with the voice.. and I had to intercede because the student just paid $100 and was not getting the help they paid for... This, from people that were trying hard to be "teachers", but were in need of a lot more experience and understanding... that could sing your socks off. 

 

If we hang out hat on your assumption here.. the we have to assume that... Chris Cornell can teach you how to sing... or teach you how to train to get stronger about your voice. We would have to conclude that Sam Smith can teach you how to train your voice to get stronger for singing. Right? There is absolutely no evidence what so ever that suggests that Chris Cornell can teach you how to train your voice to get stronger for singing, or Sam Smith. 

 

Now that is the reality of the situation, so you can convince yourself otherwise if that is easier for you to digest, but its not the way the world of voice teaching works. Teaching requires experience TEACHING, knowledge of how the voice works (some of that stuff that you think is boring and not important), techniques for people to train to get a desired result (training content, homework, a practice plan for someone to follow), an ability and gift for using metaphors to explain abstract ideas, ears that can "hear" the problem... and great teaching requires patience and empathy.  If there is a challenge with BM its this... he is a good coach, has great ears, a decent singer (if you hear the right stuff... there is some content I have heard that I enjoyed...), but the content of the SS program is lacking in my opinion. It fails to give students the techniques and content they need to build strong musculature for M2 development... twang, belting, M2 development work is lacking... generally speaking.  But if you want to use BM as an example... don't judge his ability or his program too heavily on his singing, judge him on his teaching/program. 

 

Another case in point.. Catherine Sadolin.. the founder of CVI... A GREAT program!  An awesome book that really has explained a lot about how the voice works, has helped a lot of people, (including me...) and they teach teachers every day in Denmark. Very successful... but, we never hear Cathrine sing?  Perhaps thats unfortunate, but here again, the merits of the CVI program are not totally contingent on Cathrine Sadolin's ability to product a bunch of "how to sing like" videos.

 

If all all things are equal; program, training content, ideas, etc... then YES, go with the guy that can sing... because you get more insights from that.. .but its not the only thing.  I understand that if someone can sing, that builds trust for you. I get that... and that is reasonable... and that is probably the main reason why voice teachers should sing... because it build credibility.. that is the main benefit. But the skill set of training people how to get stronger with their voice is a different skill then singing. Students need more then, someone can sing a tune. 

 

BTW... you want to hear me sing?  Here you go.. but Im not big on "How To Sing Like" other people... The main reason for that is, when I sing, I want to sing like me. I want to sing my songs.. I prefer to sing originals... I just get more satisfaction out of that. A few "how to sing like" other people videos is ok for youtube presentations and good for business I suppose... but as a vocal artist, I want to sing originals. I want to be an artist.

 

 

YouTube Playlist:

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SoundCloud (Originals):

 

But my point is... my ability as a teacher and the results my students get are not dictated by whether you like these performances or not. This has little to do with my ability to guide you as a student of vocal training techniques. It does help and it gives me insights as a teacher OF COURSE... Im not saying it counts for nothing, but teaching is a different thing. 

 

There are 3 Kinds of Voice Teachers:

 

1). Those that can sing and can teach. 1st preference.

2). Those that can't sing, but can teach. 2nd preference.

3). Those that can sing, but can't teach. 3rd preference... run like hell. 

 

BTW... I will say this... Daniel is a great singer and a good teacher as well.  I know this first hand... so I don't want to dilute Daniel's presentation here... he is a good guy and a great teacher... he would be in group #1, in my opinion... and so would Ken... and I think so would I... but don't discredit the #2 people too quickly... 

[Elvis]

Robert again this wasnt aimed towards you. Check again commebt under your Child in Time cover and ull see that o commented morevthen a month ago that im a fan of what you do and decided to work with pillars.

And actually i heard Ken Tamplin before i heard of you, but when i did hear of you i decided to buy pillars.

What im saying, singing and teachin are different skills.

But can you be a history proffesor if u dobt know anything about history?