is this okay to do/is it proper ?

[VideoHere]

folks, i'm here full voice exercising up to a b and i know this might sound bad, but it is very easy to do and it enables me to hit the b with such ease it's scary. i find myself gravitating towards this sound you are about to hear in terms of my body wants to do a b this way.

the "ooh".... it bounces off my patate and is so free to me and pingy.

again, it's easy and free but i'm not sure it's "correct" or proper, nor would it graph to reveal good formant tuning or bad.

that's what i really want to know.

steve, would you be kind enough to listen and graph me?

this "ooh" because i'm finding it becoming more automatic. if it's bad to do, i need to figure out how to reverse it. if it's good, i'll be as happy as a pig in.....

again, it's the "ooh" on the b that's the issue. i could sing this "ooh" all night long, but if it's wrong to do, i'd better nip it in the bud.

thank you in advance.

anybody else, please feel free to comment.

http://www.box.net/shared/jhjtvdmsn2

[Douglas]

<snip>

anybody else, please feel free to comment.

<snip>

Hi Videohere,

Since I am still working on training my ear, I ran your clip through RealTune on Reaper. It is reading your B as a B4 though I am assuming you were trying for a B5. :| I am sure that it could be wrong though, the pitch graph looks like it going up then there is a discontinuity and it shows up an octive lower. It sort of sounds lower to me tough too. I wonder if it has to do with the formants you were asking Steven about?

Anyway it is interesting and I guess I will have to keep a close eye on RealTune! I will be interested to see what the experts say too. Certainly an interesting learning opportunity.

Thanks for posting.

Doug

[akarawd]

folks, i'm here full voice exercising up to a b and i know this might sound bad, but it is very easy to do and it enables me to hit the b with such ease it's scary. i find myself gravitating towards this sound you are about to hear in terms of my body wants to do a b this way.

the "ooh".... it bounces off my patate and is so free to me and pingy.

again, it's easy and free but i'm not sure it's "correct" or proper, nor would it graph to reveal good formant tuning or bad.

that's what i really want to know.

steve, would you be kind enough to listen and graph me?

this "ooh" because i'm finding it becoming more automatic. if it's bad to do, i need to figure out how to reverse it. if it's good, i'll be as happy as a pig in.....

again, it's the "ooh" on the b that's the issue. i could sing this "ooh" all night long, but if it's wrong to do, i'd better nip it in the bud.

thank you in advance.

anybody else, please feel free to comment.

http://www.box.net/shared/jhjtvdmsn2

Hey Bob, I don't hear anything strange there - I'm a little confused though, is that an "oo" or an "ee" ?

In any case it's got body. I know you're waiting for Steven's opinion before you incorporate it in your singing

to avoid "bad" muscle memory but it'd love to hear it within the context of song.

I sincerely hope you've struck gold !

Best,

Thanos

[jonpall]

I think he was aiming for a B4, not a B5. It sounded good. I think you're very close to being able to master this. It sounded like you went from an Eh vowel to a vowel that sounded either like Uh or an O vowel. IMO, you may have modified it a bit TOO much as you went up in pitch and you may also have held your breath back a bit TOO much (i.e. the "hold" or "cry" from curbing) on the top note. So it sounded slightly strained. But I heard it quite clear that you CAN do this and are probably much closer to being able to than you think. And yeah, it would be cool to hear other people, like f.ex. Steven Fraser, chim in on this.

[Snorth]

B5 is one note away from C6 ^^ He was doing a B4.

[Steven Fraser]

folks, i'm here full voice exercising up to a b and i know this might sound bad, but it is very easy to do and it enables me to hit the b with such ease it's scary. i find myself gravitating towards this sound you are about to hear in terms of my body wants to do a b this way.

the "ooh".... it bounces off my patate and is so free to me and pingy.

again, it's easy and free but i'm not sure it's "correct" or proper, nor would it graph to reveal good formant tuning or bad.

that's what i really want to know.

steve, would you be kind enough to listen and graph me?

Bob, I will look at it, and graph it later today.

[Douglas]

B5 is one note away from C6 ^^ He was doing a B4.

Oh hi everyone,

I guess I have been so preoccupied with trying to hit high notes in "full voice" that I was assuming everyone else was too.

Sorry Videohere!

Doug

[jonpall]

Douglas, VIDEOHERE was hitting high notes with full voice. A B4 is freakin' high for males. F.ex. it's half step below the top note most operatic tenors (the male high C). A B5 is obviously much higher but it's actually fairly useless for male singers since they usually have no reason to anywhere NEAR that high. But I guess that 99% of men on this planet have a real hard time singing in a connected, full voice past even a G4 - like VIDEOHERE just did.

[Douglas]

Douglas, VIDEOHERE was hitting high notes with full voice. A B4 is freakin' high for males. F.ex. it's half step below the top note most operatic tenors (the male high C). A B5 is obviously much higher but it's actually fairly useless for male singers since they usually have no reason to anywhere NEAR that high. But I guess that 99% of men on this planet have a real hard time singing in a connected, full voice past even a G4 - like VIDEOHERE just did.

Hi Jonpall,

I certainly mean no disrespect but am confused. Reaper is saying that the B isnt the highest note in the clip. And again this may just be my confusion and difficulty with frequency determination software so please point me in the right direction. What is the highest note in the clip? Reaper says it is between an F#5 and a G5, which may be incorrect and perhaps reapers realtune could be reading overtones instead of the base frequency.

So from Reaper's realtune, the B we are speaking about is one of the lower notes in the clip. ( I wish I could post the pitch graph, I am trying to figure out how to take a screen shot of it.)

So from what reaper was saying the B was lower than the highest note he was singing which is what may be confusing me about what was going on.

And for the record, I am very grateful for the opportunity to participate in the discussion and I am hoping I didn't say anything that would be offensive. I think very highly of Videohere and am most grateful for his willingness to post clips and put up with my attempts to understand them.

Videohere, I am very sorry if I said anything that suggested otherwise, thanks again for posting your clip and sorry if I got it wrong.

I guess I just have more enthusiasm than brains.

Thanks so much.

Doug

[Martin H]

Doug,

Don't sweat it. It's a B4 in US notation or a B(H)1 in EU notation. :)

[jonpall]

Douglas, please continue writing comments! I think this software of yours must have been picking up overtones or something like you said and that started a whole lot of confusion :)

[VideoHere]

Hi Jonpall,

I certainly mean no disrespect but am confused. And again this may just be my confusion and difficulty with frequency determination software so please point me in the right direction. What is the highest note in the clip? Reaper says it is between an F#5 and a G5, which may be incorrect and perhaps reapers realtune could be reading overtones instead of the base frquency.

Thanks so much.

Doug

thanks for the help and replies folks. i apprecaite it.

doug, the "ooh" note (like is the word "cool") is a b4, one step away from a tenor high c. it's a toughfy. it's not enough to just nail it...i'm trying to hit it properly, with the correct use of formants. this "ooh" modification if done correctly enables an easier, less strenuous, access to that note.

don't feel bad man, when i started this forum, i didn't even know what a b4 meant! lol!!!.

[jonpall]

The note:

I just listened to the clip again. If you compare the high note to a guitar or a piano you'll find that it's a B4.

The vowel modification:

VIDEOHERE, I think you should try to modify the Eh more towards Uh as in "hungry", but not completely. It sounds like your not modifying optimally because the end vowel doesn't sound like it's between Eh and Uh. It sounds a bit like you go from Eh to O as in "woman" and you say that you're aiming to get to Oo as in "cool". I wouldn't go from an Eh vowel to O or Oo. Really, why would you want to do that? Those 2 vowels sound very different from the Eh vowel. Modifying slightly towards Uh as in "hungry" would be much better because it sounds much more similar to Eh.

Yet, in your favor, you are cutting the volume back a bit and adding that "hold/cry" from curbing so you're ALMOST doing what I think you want to do (having a full, resonant tone from top to bottom, yet not really increase the volume that much as you go up. In CVT it would be called going from overdrive to curbing, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not an expert on this).

The hold/cry:

You are also overdoing the hold a bit so it sounds a bit restrained, but that's normal when you're starting out with curbing/mixed voice experimentation and you'll figure out how to reduce the hold/cry a bit very soon.

[Mr Bounce]

Don't worry Doug, I too am a crappy singer and merely try to learn from some of the great people on this forum One of the greatest tools a singer can have is a keyboard within close reach.

Btw VIDEOHERE, I am not qualified to make vocal assessments, but I feel as if I can hear your jaw tightening on the lower 3 tones of the scale. A lot of grunty powerful "ehh." Maybe if you started from the top down, that might be an interesting way to learn that vocal configuration up there? Just my 2c

[Martin H]

Mr Bounce,

No you can't hear a jaw tightening. You can't hear bad constriction either. BUT You can ASK if he feels it that way. :)

[jonpall]

Then there is always the possibility that you actually wanted to have the B4 as an O vowel and in that case, I think you were pretty spot on except I'd try to reduce the hold a bit. But if you want the top note to sound like an Eh to the audience, then it would be better to modify it slightly towards Uh as in "hungry", IMO. If you did it by just the right amount, the audience will perceive it as Eh. I'm not really gonna say too much because there are many far more knowledgable guys on this forum than me and hopefully they'll make a comment here.

[Martin H]

jonpall,

Why don't modify it towards IH as in "bit" ? That's way closer to EH than UH.... :)

[jonpall]

Martin, there was a discussion about that in the CVT forum and some guys liked Ih more and some liked Uh more. I know what you're saying. But personally, I feel that Uh has a bit fuller sound :)

[Martin H]

jonpall,

But how about the integrity of the words? "Baby" becomes "Buhbuh"??? ;)

[Mr Bounce]

Mr Bounce,

No you can't hear a jaw tightening. You can't hear bad constriction either. BUT You can ASK if he feels it that way.

I know you can't "hear" but it just sounds like what it feels like when I ascend

Not trying to offend, just trying to speak technically and learn. Is there too much "weight"?

[jonpall]

Is Bibi any better? lol. I think you'll hear many examples of rock tenors choosing a "fatter" vowel over a "thinner" one. Of course you could also go for Eh itself - overdrive mode But I'm talking about a slight modification, not going completely to Uh (well not until maybe at D5 or higher), so using Uh for me is kind of a compromise between curbing and overdrive (even though it's completely in curbing). I stay in curbing, but use the most powerful vowel (in curbing). But if the word was f.ex. "me", I'd use the Ih vowel. And if it was the word "you", I'd use the O vowel. Uh is just the "fattest" curbing vowel, to me at least.

[Martin H]

Mr Bounce,

No offense taken my friend

Yes, but how can you conclude that a sound or a feeling that another person may be feeling or hearing is bad? (pssst....you can't)

And what is "too much weight" ?

:)

[VideoHere]

jonpall,

Why don't modify it towards IH as in "bit" ? That's way closer to EH than UH....

thanks guys, really, please don't hesitate on anything you say about it.

you see, it's feeling really nice and easy believe it or not, i'm loose and free but what's happening is my singing mechanism or whatever is developing a propensity to fall into an "ooh" up there (b4, not the notes below), and when i do, maybe the recording sucked, because it's only a windows notebook with my $20 logitech pc mic, but it's so freakin' easy it's got me feeling like "how can it be this free and easy in full voice. maybe that was a cop out trap i fell into.?"

see what i mean?

jonpall, you might be right...maybe i took the path of least resistance too severly with the ooh.

am i making any $%^& sense (lol!!!!!)

we need the "academic department" for this one...lol!!!!

[Martin H]

Jonpall,

Yes "BIHbIH" is WAY better than "Buhbuh" when it comes to the integrity of the word ex. "Baby":

http://www.box.net/shared/u8or7ndhyp

[jonpall]

Yes - if you modify the vowels COMPLETELY from Eh to either Ih or Uh, I see your point - Uh sounds more rediculous. But again, I was talking about modifying only slightly towards Uh and what I often do at the end of the modified vowel, is to sing the exact correct vowel for a split second. So it would be like BUUUUUUhEhBIIIIIh. And even that long Uh vowel would be somewhere between Uh and Eh - i.e. vowel modification, not vowel replacement.