Sound Colors / Dampened Harmonic

[carp]

I'm trying to come to a better understand of the sound/feel of the dampened harmonic vs other sounds/sensations. I'm working with Pillars and trying to use the concepts and terms as laid out there.

 

The link has me doing some basic sirens from G3 to D4.   The first is with what seems to be is in the direction of the dampened sound - darker, dopey maybe.  The 2nd is I guess could be described as 'edging'; its much more metallic.  When executing the second there is much more sensation of resonance in my head, and the sound is more cutting.  Also not particularly pleasant.  

 

Am I interpreting / feeling this correctly?

 

 

 

A related questions - its my understanding that the 'singer's formant' is not the same as the 'dampened harmonic'.  If this is correct, is the 2nd sample (what I called edging) at all representative of the singers formant?

 

 

Thanks,
Greg 

[KillerKu]

I'm not an expert, and hopefully Rob can chime in since it is his program, but I do believe you are including more twang in the second sample. It also seems like your resonance is shifting to more more nasal place.

 

As a quick fix for getting a twangy witchy position. I find saying 'nya nya nya nya' like a witch can be helpful. Tongue high and wide, right, Rob should be helping you a lot with Twang. But the important thing to understand about hat is the 'n' consonant will be nasal by necessity, but when you go into the 'ya' section you can change the sound color to include more pharyngeal resonance as per taste.

 

You can even say like 'nyook' like book, or 'nyoke.' It it is easiest to find twangy thing on a nasal sound, but it is ultimately like an ingredient. And later you'll be able to add and remove it to other sounds a bit.

 

When twang is isolated is isolated as much as possible in my voice it sounds very ugly indeed. Don't worry about it sounding pretty, but overall my non expert opinion is you're going in a good direction and sounds like Rob's program is steering you pretty well.

[carp]

Thanks Ku for the thoughtful reply.   You're right, the NYA really brings it out.  Interestingly, I can't do the NYA thing above about F4.  I mean I can make the sound, but not get any twang going.    

 

When I go to what I'm thinking is the dampened position, it's hard to maintain the resonant sensation,   Maybe that's normal, or not?

 

Also when I go to the dampened, I have a hard time keeping my teeth showing.  Rob emphasize the fangy bite as part of a good embouchure.  I keep my mouth open, but my lip pulls over my teeth. 

 

I've got a lesson with Rob soon so look forward to exploring these things further.

[KillerKu]

Can you do a non breathy falsetto ish sound yet? You might try nya - ing into that for a bit.

 

If you are having trouble finding this sound, if you say a vowel really fast. Like Uh oh! And then gradually extend the length, many people find it.

 

You could experiment with sliding that non breathy falsetto ish thing down. I found that really helpful for me.

 

I m ade this to help MDEW, so ignore the dying cat joke section in the beginning (or at least don't follow the advice, heh)

 

https://soundcloud.com/killerku/how-i-sing-young-elton-john

 

but at about 1:28 I begin with a 'here kitty' voice that is light but not super breathy. While training you can practice sliding this thing down imo if it just stops at the bridge. You can even nya into that voice. It can just help you learn to release the voice rather than keep pushing.

[carp]

Yes I can do non breathy falsetto.   I talk to my dogs that way all the time     Actually I think I can do a pretty good EH at A, with a wind & release or dampen and release onset.    And I can siren up to A4.   But when I try a Q&R or the NYA at A4, I'm not able to get smooth complete closure.

 

I'll try the descending thing.   Descending is generally more difficult for me all around.

[KillerKu]

Yes I can do non breathy falsetto.   I talk to my dogs that way all the time     Actually I think I can do a pretty good EH at A, with a wind & release or dampen and release onset.    And I can siren up to A4.   But when I try a Q&R or the NYA at A4, I'm not able to get smooth complete closure.

 

I'll try the descending thing.   Descending is generally more difficult for me all around.

 

The sirening thing is normal. I can siren up to like an E5. Give me a guitar in my hands and make me sing and I am lucky to get an A#4 and start thinning more and more. Make sure you siren all vowels or at least modifications of them when that time comes.

 

Oh, one more thing, really immerse yourself in Rob's program there. Knowing Rob, eh probably has things structured in a good order for you that can accelerate your growth. So don't throw my suggestions in the trash, but make sure you put extra focus on his program. Rob's a pro.

 

I'm not a huge range guy, so I often focus elsewhere, but someone like Rob knows how to help a lot more than I would with more expertise and teaching experience.  So also take your time and don't rush things too much. There's a certain amount of things that just need some time. You'll get good places.

[carp]

Thanks for the comments. I'm doing exactly that.    I have terrible pitch issues still at this point, so can hardly be said to sing, but even discounting that, I haven't had much luck yet applying the sounds from the exercises to actual singing.      I'm mostly working on what Pillars call The Foundation Building Routine.   I've learned from my guitar-playing efforts that putting in the time on fundamentals is really important, especially if things don't come naturally to a person.  And they don't  to me.

 

Re sirening high - I run pretty hard into the second passagio at A4.  But I'm not worried much about that at this time.

[KillerKu]

Re sirening high - I run pretty hard into the second passagio at A4.  But I'm not worried much about that at this time.

 

Non breathy falsetto slide can actually be really useful for that. It can help with release. I know if I push chest like to the absolute max I could barely get an A4 once in a blue moon.  Exploring the bridge from the top makes it so you can release.  It was very important for someone like me, hahaha.

 

Another cool thing is when I reach that super high area, I can just use a turbo variant of that sound that is less and less connected.

 

 

If you listen there is a pretty intense section towards the end (2:50) I'm singing some pretty intense A#4, but then I release some into lightly connected C#5, and then release completely into an F#5.

 

Once you can control the amount of release somewhat in the voice, you can lighten the timbre towards that non breathy falsetto thingy. It will remove 'walls,' but you won't sing like Dio. Good thing you have Rob's program. Still it's better than having a wall, right?

[Robert Lunte]

I'm trying to come to a better understand of the sound/feel of the dampened harmonic vs other sounds/sensations. I'm working with Pillars and trying to use the concepts and terms as laid out there.

 

The link has me doing some basic sirens from G3 to D4.   The first is with what seems to be is in the direction of the dampened sound - darker, dopey maybe.  The 2nd is I guess could be described as 'edging'; its much more metallic.  When executing the second there is much more sensation of resonance in my head, and the sound is more cutting.  Also not particularly pleasant.  

 

Am I interpreting / feeling this correctly?

 

 

 

A related questions - its my understanding that the 'singer's formant' is not the same as the 'dampened harmonic'.  If this is correct, is the 2nd sample (what I called edging) at all representative of the singers formant?

 

 

Thanks,

Greg 

 

I'm trying to come to a better understand of the sound/feel of the dampened harmonic vs other sounds/sensations. I'm working with Pillars and trying to use the concepts and terms as laid out there.

 

The link has me doing some basic sirens from G3 to D4.   The first is with what seems to be is in the direction of the dampened sound - darker, dopey maybe.  The 2nd is I guess could be described as 'edging'; its much more metallic.  When executing the second there is much more sensation of resonance in my head, and the sound is more cutting.  Also not particularly pleasant.  

 

Am I interpreting / feeling this correctly?

 

 

 

A related questions - its my understanding that the 'singer's formant' is not the same as the 'dampened harmonic'.  If this is correct, is the 2nd sample (what I called edging) at all representative of the singers formant?

 

 

Thanks,

Greg 

 

Hi Greg,

 

Sorry it has taken me a while to loop back to you... 15 hour days and I just dug through 56 emails... 

 

I believe you and I have a lesson booked soon, correct?

 

Do you have your Training Media Interface and Mobile Edition all working?

 

In regards to your question...

 

The "Dampened Harmonic" is a term I came up with to describe the amplification of F1/H2 formant tunings and in particular, the warmer, darker tone you get with a subtle larynx dampening maneuver. This is NOT the same as the Singer's Formant. The Spetra Graph signature of the Singer's Formant would is more applicable to Classical singing.. there is more then one formant Greg... the "Singer's Formant" is a special formant tuning / Harmonic signature that creates a sound color consistent with Classical and it amplifies really well... its quite a lovely thing, but it really isn't the formant tuning that you would be focusing on or concerning yourself with as a pop, contemporary , rock singer... 

 

Listenting to Your Files:

 

G-D Siren:

 

The 1st Sound is MOST CERTAINLY not what you want to be doing. Your larynx is WAY, WAY, WAY too low... just simply ask yourself Greg... is that a sound color you think sounds good?  Is that color that is "sonorous" and you can imagine being able to "pull" up to very high frequencies?  I think even at your level, it is clear to you, that that sound is not going to work... thus, your physiology behind that is wrong.

 

Pull your larynx up big time and focus on amplifying your upper palette.. YES!  focus on Edging vowels "eh", "a" (cat)... .. which your 2nd sample was "kinda" closer too.. but still needed work.  If you have to choose between the two, go with the 2nd one that has brighter harmonics and a larynx that is not shoved so "dopey" low... 

 

Actually somewhere in between the two is where your needing to get to... You want BOTH an amplified dark harmonics and bright harmonics.  You need the "treble" and the "bass" in your formant tuning... in your lesson, I have visuals and tools to help you with this.

 

View the larynx dampening videos and frankly... many others in "The Four Pillars of Singing' and notice that my "dampened harmonic" is not that dopey sounding.. and notice it also has a balance of palette , bright harmonics at the same time. 

 

Get off the Dampen & Release onset... its not correct anyways and you have to pull your larynx up... 

 

I want you to train the Quack & Release onset... and Wind & Release Onsets with a very wide, embouchure... lift your top lip... expose your canines.. and just start doing... 

 

"hey"! and "Yeah" and "Yah" onsets.. these will compress your glottis nicely and release you into these primary edging vowels, forward to the hard palette.

 

If you listen to my dampened onsets on this video... its not dopey... its just subtly warmer... 

 

 

Notice that there is strict work flow to these onsets and sirens... get a good onset 1st Greg... then proceed to the siren / workout... but only after you have tuned a great onset... which includes warm and bright harmonics simultaneously... !  Palette & Larynx/Pharynx resonation... 

[Robert Lunte]

 

 

Also when I go to the dampened, I have a hard time keeping my teeth showing.  Rob emphasize the fangy bite as part of a good embouchure.  I keep my mouth open, but my lip pulls over my teeth. 

 

Train to lift and show your canines!!!  NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!        I don't "emphasize" the horizontal embouchure with canines... I demand upon it... this is not really an option.. especially as a beginner. 

 

[carp]

Thanks for the replies Rob!

 

I wasn't digging the tone of the first sample.  It was darker for sure, but not very bluesy or generally appealing.  It's helpful to explore the extremes of sound and sensation.

 

I'll check out those videos of yours again (I have several times, but I'm not as perceptive at this stuff as I want to be)  and listen for those colors.  And we'll talk about it today I'm sure.

 

And canines canines canines all the way.

[Robert Lunte]

Remember all you guys....  A Greatly Tuned Formant ALSO Sounds Great Aesthetically... thats not just new age bullshit, its true... its one of the magical things about singing... when it sounds good to the ear, the physics of the voice is also in balance... more or less... at least in regards to what new students should be tuning and listening for early on... at least my students.  If it sounds like a "dopey pooper" then that is probably what your physics and configuration is as well...