Proper singing volume

[JohnnyL]

Something I've asked in a different thread and still makes me wonder: I can now sound loud with very little effort (and without straining) but the loudness in which I sing makes my voice behave differently. 

 

Singing loudly makes me reach higher notes in chest voice easily - E4 and even higher... however I have less control when my chest voice reaches it limit and I can't really make a natural switch. I can prepare for one, try it a few times but it doesn't come all that natural. 

 

Singing more quietly makes transitions easy and they occur on much lower notes, it also makes my chest voice more airy, yet I don't feel my volume drops at all when I go into head voice (or falsetto, or whatever I'm doing).

 

I've notice it as singing to different instruments gets different volumes from me, so when I start singing in a lesson vs. home I naturally start singing differently and then realize that my voice behaves in a different matter. 

 

So I was wondering if there are any guidelines, stylistic consideration or any conscious choices that were made by other forum members regarding their volume of singing. Or is it weird even bothering about it? 

[ronws]

Makes perfect sense to think about this and there are thousand ways of describing it, or so it would seem.

 

Letting head voice control everything, falsetto in low, singing while maintaining resonance, bridging early.

 

To me, loudness is an overall volume picture, which can vary. When I speak, it is not very loud or forceful. When I sing, it can be quite loud and piercing.

 

We all get used to a certain alignment and production of volume and tone when we speak and we learn it mainly from our relatives, regardless of comfortable speaking pitch. I have watched a number of stupid driver videos and a big chunk of those are from Russia and the guys speaking, even if it is in russkya, sound like Dolph Lundgren's character in Rocky. "I must break you." Meaning they are used to a cavernous sound in their mouths, somewhat closed-sounding vowels, as opposed to americans, who's mouths open when speaking as if we are trying to each other as a meal.

 

Neither of which has to be permanent. It is just a habit, after all. I wish Igor Zlotov was here to both correct me and to show how he can sound american while being russian.

 

I am not eschewing "training" and training is what will change some habits for you. But to even get to that mental place of training, you have to change some mental things.

 

When you talk about being airy in chest, you will absolutely have to let go of the idea that such a feeling or sound is a bad thing. You need to experiment with that and let some flexibility in your voice, as you probably are in lessons.

 

Now, the hard part, carry that mental flexibility into your song practice at home. it is not just for the "lessons studio." The latter reminds me of guys who fight perfectly in a dojo in controlled conditions but get their butts kicked in the real world because they have separated the two in their minds.

 

Anyway, so, singing differently with some different instruments. I think it is also from whatever genre of song one is attempting. What if the lessons sound like something suitable for "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac and you go home to practice "Click, Click, Boom" by Saliva? A big difference is the lyrics. And apparent intensity.

 

"Well I saw my reflection in a snow-covered hill. And a landslide brought it down ..."

 

as opposed to :

 

"Just a kid with a pad and pen and a big imagination ...."

 

I would also add that it is easy to forget what goes into making a studio recording. Literally, a million dollars worth of equipment, 20 to 30 years of listening experience starting with an internship sweeping floors in someone else's studio.

 

Also what makes a difference is lyrics and where they fall in the melody. I can effortlessly breeze through one song and have a hard time with another song. By the same artist. This requires you to song map ahead of time. Determine before hand which vowel sounds work best for you and mark that on the lyric sheet so that when you sing, you break out of the habit of trying to speak the lines as if you were narrating and, instead, sing them as if you were an instrument. Because, while singing, you are an instrument.

 

Also, when you sing with an instrument, are you amplified as much as an instrument?

 

I have found that my control over my singing volume, and therefore my endurance, has increased now that I am not trying to sing acoustically over my Fender 85 amp, which will do 200 watts rms and rattles the floorboards if I go past 1, let alone all the way to "11."

[D.Starr]

[MDEW]

      CVI breaks down volume levels with the various modes(CVI terms meaning styles and type of singing) Neutral = softsinging low volume, Curbing = moderate to loud, Overdrive= loud, Edging = Very loud. And they go further into saying that as your volume increases/ decreases that mode will change on its own. And there is different support levels and vowels associated with this also.

     According to them there are rules to follow with different volumes....... If singing a song that is normally in Overdrive( loud) and you are trying to sing softer you have a better chance to crash and burn....Flip,Crack, get stuck and so forth.........if you do not change the way that you are singing for softer sounds...

    To sound different at different volume levels is normal and to make certain sounds you must use the proper volume for you voice.

[JohnnyL]

Thanks for the replies - so basically - it's a stylistic choice more than anything else, right?

[KillerKu]

Thanks for the replies - so basically - it's a stylistic choice more than anything else, right?

 

I'd say so. The position of the vocal tract (resonant space), amount of fold closure, air pressure, are all alterable. It's more important that balance is found in these relationships as they all have some affect on each other.

 

The end goal would be to find something healthy, as over compressing your vocal tract with too much air and closure can be fatiguing, and if you use too little air you can press the vocal folds and constrict.

 

Volume is a side effect, it alone isn't really a sign of something going well or not. Back in the day I could push chest to very extreme volumes. 

 

But if I use the right tract positioning with less air, I can get very loud today in a way that is not fatiguing. I think the more important thing is to maybe experiment with various volumes at various points in the voice as it can give you versatility.

 

I mostly listen for timbre though to be honest. In electronic mic music, quiet and loud end up 'sounds' at the end of the day. I like to make the sound that sounds most emotionally appropriate to me, the volume is often a side effect but mic proximity, compression, and volume alteration is done on all pop music. So you try to find a healthy way to express a sound that is honest with your goals, the ultimate volume may be less from a mic if you're 3 feet from the mic, vs 2 inches.

 

The mic allowing all of these various timbres to reach audiences is a big part of how modern pop music developed.

[Khassera]

Layne Staley apparently sang with his db levels up to eleven.

Mike Patton apparently sings with a very restricted volume.

Dio apparently sings quite quiet, contradictory to how he sounds.

I've started practicing keeping the volume very steady no matter what tonality I go for. I vary, sometimes singing with low volume, sometimes with a sh*t-ton, but always keeping the volume constant. So you can sing "loud" while singing soft, and you can sing gritty and "rock" while singing quiet. I think this recent "experimentation" has given me a whole new control over my voice.

[VideoHere]

I prefer to sing on the loud side.  I just seem to gravitate towards loud.  But I make sure that even within the loudness, I sing dynamically.

 

Interestingly, although I like to belt and wail, I'm not into screaming or super high singing.

 

Nothing is worse than a singer who has no concept of dynamics, (no changes to their volume or intensity).

 

Then you just bellow and freak everybody out...lol!!!

 

People will say you either transition early or transition late.  But both can be learned and integrated into your technique.  Both have their skillsets.

 

There is no "preferred" method.  Just because you transition late doesn't make you a chest puller.

[Khassera]

It's much easier to sing loud, I've found.

[Billy Budapest]

Louder=Easier - depending on what you want to do, but it'll burn you out over time. If I've got more than 2 shows in a row, I ratchet back the volume (make sure to start with show 1!) or else it kind of blows you out. If you warm up before each show, you'll probably be cool, but you'll notice that your warmups take longer (this is my experience, anyway).

[JohnnyL]

I don't feel a lot of effort when I'm singing louder. The only thing that's difficult for me is bridging or, if I'm missing a note to 'improvise' my way back. I have much more control when I'm singing at just about speaking volume (still maybe a little louder).

[Khassera]

I cannot recommend an acoustic monitor enough. Anything will do, even just cupping your hand against your ear.

 

 

I, however, have a bread box with a curved top. I take that top and hold it like a big telephone up to my ear, so the other end is just over my mouth. I know I sound like a fruit saying this, but just try it. I dare you. If you can't take it, meaning the volume is way too loud, then, maybe, you're practicing too loud. The mic's there after all, all the volume you'll ever need will come out of the mixtable. So dial it down and I guarantee you your control will increase. It'll feel really weird at first, but trust me, it works like a charm.

 

Just to seal the deal, here's a photo to show you what I mean.

 

Peace.

[Billy Budapest]

I don't feel a lot of effort when I'm singing louder. The only thing that's difficult for me is bridging or, if I'm missing a note to 'improvise' my way back. I have much more control when I'm singing at just about speaking volume (still maybe a little louder).

Singing louder doesn't require much more effort - but it takes a toll over a few days. If you're just doing one gig, you'll be fine most likely. If you've got more in a row, better to pace yourself. 

[VideoHere]

Billy, I have found you've got to have your support solid and consistent to sing loud and have stamina. 

 

When I support well, posture good, etc., singing louder shouldn't wear you out any more than singing at a lower volume.

 

The folds are getting some support from the support if that makes any sense. 

 

In fact, the airy, breathy stuff will wipe you out much faster. 

[Danielformica]

Singing airy and breathy will tire you out however singing too loud because you have to in order to hit the notes^ will cause problems as well. If you can sing an a4 loud you should be able to sing an a4 soft less volume same closure and support.

[Khassera]

Singing airy and breathy will tire you out however singing too loud because you have to in order to hit the notes^ will cause problems as well. If you can sing an a4 loud you should be able to sing an a4 soft less volume same closure and support.

I've always agreed with this but silently ignored it. Now I feel stupid for not having the integrity to knuckle down and work on producing a connected bright soft tone all throughout my range earlier. It's so much easier to get the tone I want now, for the first time I can actually choose what type of rasp I use, rather, I can experiment with different distortions without wiping out my high end.

[VideoHere]

Singing airy and breathy will tire you out however singing too loud because you have to in order to hit the notes^ will cause problems as well. If you can sing an a4 loud you should be able to sing an a4 soft less volume same closure and support.

I agree with you Daniel.

[Danielformica]

YOU DO !!!!!! Holy Smoly and the clouds parted and the heavens appeared!!!!   ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh(angelic voice)

[VideoHere]

YOU DO !!!!!! Holy Smoly and the clouds parted and the heavens appeared!!!!   ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh(angelic voice)

I just pooped!!!

[ronws]

I just pooped!!!

Great, now I have a mental image I need to get rid of ....