Iron Maiden "Run To The Hills", please critique

[Olem]

Hello!

Please ignore the fact that i sing out of time. I sang with the original song in my ears and later found out that the backing track was a little slower, i will try this song again in a few days and then sing after the backing track. To get the Dickinson sound was difficult, i tried very hard to get a strong hold in the chorus. I also sang with MLN, but skipped that because i thought it sounded a little weak. Maybe i am way out of line, that´s why i ask for your opinions. What do you think, how do my vocals sound here?

http://www.box.net/shared/tbvvsjgvae

[Snax]

I had to stop listening during the first chorus as it kind of fell apart right there. I think you will do well with this song if you spend some time on breath support and singing in a strong "mix" voice. I don't know what other term to use than "mix" but it would give you more range without pulling chest as you are doing. You have a good tone and the potential to sing it well so don't worry too much. That is a damn tough song to pull off even for singers with the range to do it. I look forward to hearing it again after you have trained your voice in those passagio areas.

[Stan]

It's hard to sing a song originally sung by a God. I can't blame this guy. Olem, it was a good attempt... but it lacked power, emotion, and convincing. The chorus was out of tune, and seems to be really difficult to pull off...as you're cracking at that point. Just like Snax says, you do have a good tone, but you need to work on supporting and STOP pulling chest! Just keep training the voice, and you'll nail it in no time!

[Douglas]

Hi Olem,

I am just learning to sing so, please take what I say with a grain of salt.

I think having the timing off makes it hard to tell how well you are singing since the harmony doesn't sound right. That said, you might find it easier to get it in MLN rather than curbing.

Would you be willing to post just the chorus? perhaps in MLN?

Thanks for posting your recording and the opportunity to comment.

Doug

[Snax]

Ah yes, curbing is the term I should have used instead of "mix". Bruce has a very intense curbing that has a ton of power. It's really tough to criticize anyone who attempts to sing like one of the most powerful chesty sounding belters ever!

[ronws]

I listened all the way through. And, Olem, I hope you don't mind, I sang along, starting at the bridge. You were in chest way too high on the chorus. The chorus is head voice, with crying or curbing, as Mike stated. And the top end note is nearly pure twang. I thought your timing was fine. But, as Mike said, I know you can sing this song. Actually, this song is a good example of not trying to bridge passagio. Bruce skips it entirely. It goes from baritone to high chest then flips during the chord change of the chorus to head voice with curbing or crying. With about a teaspoon of twang.

[Olem]

Thanx for your replies, guys!

Well, i am pulling chest to get a fuller, more chesty, tone and i know it´s not a good thing to do, besides it´s not sounding so well either. The thing is, i can´t go to head voice before A4 without getting a tiny falsettoish tone. I have practised alot around passagio, but i guess i am doing something wrong and maybe i have to contact a vocal teacher. Well someone was asking for a chorus in mln (metal like neutral), so i´ll post two examples with head voice or falsetto, whatever you want to call it. Please, tell me what you think. In my opinion it´s not very connected.

http://www.box.net/shared/qit3fqj8g7

http://www.box.net/shared/mxrg8tqr2m

[akarawd]

Hey Ola

Your mln examples sound much better but they are not supported.

I understand you feel you need to pull chest voice up to make it sound "meatier" and I used to do that for years but it got me nowhere.

If you check this forum about "bridging", "connecting early" , "changing from one mode to another" etc etc you'll find what does the job for you.

You've got to learn to trust your head voice - you'll be amazed at how much can be achieved.

The more you work on singing in curbing throughout the entire range - which is what I guess god Bruce does - the better results you'll get.

Getting a vocal coach is always a good idea but there's absolutely nothing wrong your voice - in fact I hear enormous potential - it's just your way of using it.

Thanos

[jonpall]

It's very simple. You sound great in the verses - really great! But you haven't learned yet how to bridge or connect your chest voice to your head voice (sorry about the curse words) and therefore you didn't hit the correct pitches (like you DID do very well in the verses). This is something all singers have to learn, unless they just stumble upon it as children so welcome to the club and just know that tons of singers have learned this and you can, too! So get yourself a vocal program or a vocal coach and start putting in the hours Cheers, man!

[Snax]

The thing I had to learn for myself about singing in head voice as opposed to pulling chest is that you have to trust that your voice can still sound powerful. The sensations of chest voice are strong and when you go into head it can feel (to you) that all the power is gone from your voice but it's not to the audience's ears.

You just need to learn and understand how to support that head voice with breath control and also how to place it in your head so as to maximize your resonance. Then you'll sound really powerful without much effort at all compared to the way you sing it now.

Take a listen to my recent post where I sang Victim of Change by Judas Priest. Scroll down the thread to where I posted an updated version of it. Most of that song is in my head voice but it sounds really powerful and resonant. It took me time and patience to learn how to do it the right way but the payoff is worth it my friend!

[Douglas]

Hi Olem,

Please remember that I am just a voice student.

I liked the MLN version better and wonder if you might not make that sound a lot like Bruce with more support?

Because you are using the term MLN I am going to guess you are familiar with CVT. Lots of folks that have studied pedagogies that use the term "mixed voice" like Singing Success and Speech Level Singing use mixed voice to describe what would be Overdrive->Curbing-> Neutral in CVT as they go from lower pitch to higher pitch. This could put what they call mixed voice in the neutral territory and specifically MLN territory on the high notes. Of course I do not mean to put words in anyone’s mouth and those who use the term mixed voice are best qualified to define it.

I have been listening to Run to the Hills a few times and I think maybe the high notes are MLN. There have been some discussions on other boards and lots of people think it is curbing but I am not convinced. Either way though it is debatable. Remember in the high part of the voice MLN can be loud. Some other participants may disagree, but even if he isn’t using MLN you still could, and I think it sounds better that way when you are doing it.

Anyway it might be worth a shot, it wouldn’t hurt working on it that way for a bit.

Thanks so much for letting me comment.

Doug

[Olem]

so the next task will be to find the mixed voice or curbing. By the way, i am not sure i know the notes for the chorus. Could someone help me with that. C5 to E5 or something?

[Douglas]

so the next task will be to find the mixed voice or curbing. By the way, i am not sure i know the notes for the chorus. Could someone help me with that. C5 to E5 or something?

Hi Olem,

I am happy to share what the sheet music from Musicnotes says, though it may not be the key he is actually singing it in. Also there is a convention that mens voices are sometimes writen as an octave higher than they are sung. If someone has more insight into this I would love to hear about it. Anyway here are the notes as writen.

Run G5

to B5

the C6

hills, A5

run G5

for C6 slide to B5

your B5

lives B5

I should also mention that there is a coda which is higher.

I hope this helps some.

Doug

EDIT: and there is another part of the chorus too, hopefully it is straightend out in the posts below ;)

[jonpall]

If C5 is the male high C, then it should be like this:

Run G4

to B4

the C5

hills A4

Run G4

for E5, then D5

your C5

lives D5, then A4, then B4

[Douglas]

Hi Jonpall and everyone,

There are two ways it gets sung though right?

The first from jonpall

Run G4

to B4

the C5

hills A4

Run G4

for E5, then D5

your C5

lives D5, then A4, then B4

Then the next (allowing for the octave convention)

Run G4

to B4

the C5

hills, A4

run G4

for C5 slide to B4

your B4

lives B4

Would you agree with this Jonpall?

Thanks so much.

Doug

[jonpall]

For the chorus.

[Douglas]

For the chorus.

Oops sorry I edited my question to make it more clear. Aren't there two ways Bruce sings it as depicted above? And sorry for editing my question right when you replied. You were to quick for me!

Thanks so much.

Doug

[Olem]

Thanx, for your help, guys, i really appreciate it.

[DJDeth]

Hey Dude,

As some of the other guys mentioned, you have great potential. It's nice that you approach this song - it's damn hard to imitate Bruce in his prime. Keep it up!