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Elvis
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I got a little confused lately with placing resonance.

 

I understood that as we ascend in pitch the resonance should be placed in a deeper place, namely toward the soft pallete and bassicaly not push it out of the mouth like crazy. 

 

But there is this thing when trying to do Quack and Relese onset and generally trying to use Twang in phonation the sound feels like its resonating between my nose and mouth, somwhere above my top teeth ( i guess that is called "mask" but not sure).

 

Now i dont get it if i stick with that forward placement above hard pallete or try to use twang but focusing sound further back (if thats even possible)?

 

Sry if this sounds stoopid i really dont know how to describe it better.

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Earlier versions of "Pillars" has more eh < > uh modifications in it, which is great for larynx work and feeling formant shifts... However, the updated "Pillars" makes an important point to not ONLY do this formula... you need to edge as well!  

 

Elvis see the three formulas in the "20 Minute Quick Routine" in The Foundation Building Routine in the back of the book...  The book is more current then the videos... Im starting a video production phase now and some of those videos will Edge more in the demonstrations going forward...  some of the new videos discussing this are in your lectures on the online vimeo system.

 

click here:

http://ondemand.thevocaliststudio.com

 

See 25.3 & 25.4

 

;)

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Earlier versions of "Pillars" has more eh < > uh modifications in it, which is great for larynx work and feeling formant shifts... However, the updated "Pillars" makes an important point to not ONLY do this formula... you need to edge as well!  

 

Elvis see the three formulas in the "20 Minute Quick Routine" in The Foundation Building Routine in the back of the book...  The book is more current then the videos... Im starting a video production phase now and some of those videos will Edge more in the demonstrations going forward...  some of the new videos discussing this are in your lectures on the online vimeo system.

 

click here:

http://ondemand.thevocaliststudio.com

 

See 25.3 & 25.4

 

;)

 

 

OHH that explains it. 

 

Thanks Rob!!!!

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Ever get a head cold with congestion behind your check bones? fill that area as you descend, I would still always keep the resonance in the nose and mouth, upper placement, just add more behind as you descend, like wise that would be heavy to take up with you, let go of it as you ascend, with practice you can grade to various degrees. You can keep it all the time, but unless your singing opera or you want a really dark sound, no need to.. it makes it harder to sing, because you need way more support and will make your passaggio more difficult.. this again is the way more Dramatic type voices get that darker firm sound. I don't think you need or want that if your doing rock, pop, metal.

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Elvis and Robert, I have some of the same questions.   I did watch the newer videos and there's great stuff there.  However I'm still a bit confused.

 

In the GVT and elsewhere, Pillars talks about 'deep' placement.   I think I have confused this 'deepness' with the darker sound of curbing vowels, which are backward resonant.

 

But I'm getting the point I think that deepness can just as easily be applied to edging vowels; deepness is a result of how much resonance you're getting by virtue of balancing all the components of the phonation. Do I understand this correctly?

 

A related bit of confusion for me is that in the demonstrations in the Foundation routine, the emphasis is on the edging vowel eh, and you talk about simultaneously getting a darker bluesier sound by dampening the larynx.     But this is not to be confused with curbing vowels, right?

 

Can you explain a bit more the shift in  your thinking that results in more emphasis on the edging vowels in training?

 

Thanks,
Greg

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In the GVT and elsewhere, Pillars talks about 'deep' placement.   I think I have confused this 'deepness' with the darker sound of curbing vowels, which are backward resonant.

 

Correct, this is not the same thing. Curbing vowels resonant in a backward position, generally speaking.  But when I refer to "deepness", I am referring the resonance that would be gained by having a combination of Forward and backward resonant vowels.

 

 

 

But I'm getting the point I think that deepness can just as easily be applied to edging vowels; deepness is a result of how much resonance you're getting by virtue of balancing all the components of the phonation. Do I understand this correctly?

 

Yes, absolutely. And btw... you can phonate an Edging vowel in a backward position and a curbing vowel in a forward position, it is just not in their nature.

 

 

 

A related bit of confusion for me is that in the demonstrations in the Foundation routine, the emphasis is on the edging vowel eh, and you talk about simultaneously getting a darker bluesier sound by dampening the larynx.     But this is not to be confused with curbing vowels, right?

 

The larynx should be, or its a good idea to dampen for all vowels. There is dampening on Edging vowels for sure!  The larynx dampening does two things:

 

1). It amplifies warmer harmonics.

 

&

 

2). It anchors and stabilizes the larynx for bridging and M2 singing. 

 

Notice, dampening is not bias to any particular vocal mode... although training with ^/uh is great for learning how to dampen early on. That is why one of the three vowel modification formulas in the new "Quick Hit 20 Minute Routine" is a curbing formula. In this new simplified routine, you have a strong edging formula, a curbing formula and a formula that combines both.

 

 

 

Can you explain a bit more the shift in  your thinking that results in more emphasis on the edging vowels in training?

 

Sure. I am always growing as a coach and singer. For about three years I was big on training what we would now call a "Curbing Vowel Modification Formula". I was the "Uh" man... lol... That has a lot of benefits, again; great larynx positioning, warm "boomy" formants, ease of bringing the passaggio, etc... However,... 

 

As I train to learn more about my singing, I realized as a singer... about the same time I was developing the acoustic modes about 2 years ago that... I needed more forward, hard palette resonance in my formants. The lack of more 'Red" or palette resonance created the following:

 

1). Too much weight around G#4+.

2). Hampered my ability to articulate lyrics better.

3). Neglected my twang compression strength.

4). Gave me a formant color that was not the best it could be.

 

These are all benefits you get from learning how to sustain Edging positions.

 

Fast forward to today, as you guys both know... we don't fixate on on singing vowel anyways... we understand that the singing vowels/formants are actually a stack of color... you need forward and backward resonance at the same time! So that is the path I am guiding with myself and students these days and the purpose of the formant tuning x/y graph that has the four vowels in the form colors... that is the point of that illustration.

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Man, thanks so much for the detailed reply!

 

Very interesting about edging vowels in the back and vice versa.   I just did this - it's at E4 approximately, and what I was going for was the following:

 

EH as edging, the EH as curbing, the OU (woman) as curbing and as edging.  Am I on the right track with this?

 

 

EDIT: I've just had a lightbulb moment.   In the new videos mentioned above,  you talked about edging vs curbing in terms of stylistic tendencies - rock/metal vs blues/jazz (being simplistic of course).   I'm thinking 'ok I want to be more bluesy, I 'get' vowel modification but it seems like it will be hard to steer everything towards curbing vowels'.    But I see now, it's not a matter of the vowels you use, it's how you make them.

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I'm being obnoxious and bumping this, because I would love to get a comment as to whether I'm understanding the curbing vs edging thing with 'wrong' vowels.

 

I'd like to tie this in with another thread where a poster asked for an analysis of Amy Winehouse, and ask a similar question about Paul Rodgers.   Certainly his sound strikes me as dark and bluesy.   Is he doing a lot of curbing, or ... ?

 

 

 

 

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