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Is singing from top-down wrong?

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JackCee
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Hello everyone, recently I notice something weird, some songs I sing in the lower register are very fast, tons of consonants, using all the vowels, my voice almost totally blown out after - can barely enter head voice :(. During scales and sirens D2-D5 is not uncomfortable and my voice does not feel heavy but after singing this fast low song my voice is not flexible. Then I realize that in order for me to be able to enter headvoice from those low notes (around e2, f2, g2) I must be in a place that can do that. There is no exercise or trick to stop the consonants from hurting me, I am trying my best to do the song over and over till it feels fluid. However, I feel that if I do the song at C5, or D5 in falsetto (like mickey mouse, not breathy), then down to original key it helps bring the weight of my voice, it feels easier to go back into headvoice because I just came from there. Is this wrong? or worth doing to make fast low passages less straining on my voice?

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I honestly don't know what you're trying to express. From what I can make out I think you're misapplying top down from the sounds of it. I can take the mickey down into my speaking range with no effort or strain, from each point I can move into other weightier ways of singing from this non strained position.  

 

If you want some advice, the terms aren't a magic pill, focus on sounds that don't hurt, don't send you hoarse, over any term or technical idea and build on these foundations.

 

I can get pretty shouty up to about G4 without blowing my voice out, but it can be a bit fatiguing. When first introduced to fancy singing ideas (mostly SLS at the time), it encouraged me to strain, pinch, and so forth because I was more concerned with trying to force a 'mix voice' or a 'whatever voice' or other term than focusing on what was comfortable 'enough' for me to do at the time and building from there.

 

You need to keep your foundation functional, it doesn't need to be perfect but it can't be based on straining to make your voice into a term. It doesn't matter what things are called if they are currently working without blowing your voice out. Over time, you can explore the voice and find these other ways to phonate that might resemble whatever term X, Y, or Z program uses, but the very first order of business for any singer should be to keep the foundation solid, whatever it is. This is the thing that works, if it didn't work you'd be seeing a doctor. I made this mistake myself, and that's why I'm telling you now.

 

Now, I can do a lot of things with my voice, but it took time. I stopped viewing my voice in black and white terms of head voice or falsetto or this and that, and it's all just comfortable sounds that work, or are uncomfortable or overly strained sounds. I move all sounds towards the former. The terms themselves can be more damaging than just singing intuitively and listening to your body and letting things fall where they fall, but only if you place them as more important than your foundation.

 

It's ok to move slowly and expand all of the things you can do that work over time. If whatever you can currently do is less fatiguing to your voice than trying to force something that isnt' there, that method is currently healthier. It isn't a race, and sometimes a race will cause you more problems.

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Yea i was hesitant to say i didnt understand a thing just out of fear of coming across as dumb. But i guess it is kinda ambiguous.

But as i always say. Record a clip with your phone and post it. Best way for people to hear the issue.

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After singing a low song with many consonants occurring very fast I find it very difficult to sing above A4. Exercise and sirens are OK in lower voice. I tried singing much higher at C5 and lower again at F2 and it seemed to have helped. is this a correct way to use top-down? Words like "independent, straight-to-it, get-it-up" around F2 seem to cripple my ability to sing in upper voice. I can Humm there, siren there, open vowels fine.

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Sry but that never happened to me. I mean the consonant part. If i sing really heavy on the bottom then im having a hard time going high because i tend to pull chest then. But i dont think that conosoants are doing this, i think its more about oversinging the bottom than singing consonants lower.

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Hello everyone, recently I notice something weird, some songs I sing in the lower register are very fast, tons of consonants, using all the vowels, my voice almost totally blown out after - can barely enter head voice :(. During scales and sirens D2-D5 is not uncomfortable and my voice does not feel heavy but after singing this fast low song my voice is not flexible. I realized also why frisells top-down exercise didn't work for me; it is too far away from singing. The TVS quack and release I do is kind of closer to singing. Then I realize that in order for me to be able to enter headvoice from those low notes (around e2, f2, g2) I must be in a place that can do that. There is no exercise or shortcut to stop the consonants from hurting me, I am trying my best to do the song over and over till it feels fluid. However, I feel that if I do the song at C5, or D5 in falsetto (like mickey mouse, not breathy), then down to original key it helps bring the weight of my voice, it feels easier to go back into headvoice because I just came from there. Is this wrong? or something worth doing?

Holy (*auto edit*) I think I understand!

Dude, the reason it's easier to sing high first, modulate down and then back up is because your headvoice, which is likely to be a weaker coordination, sets a sort of a cap to your air pressure. If you start in chest you're likely to really beef it up, then suddenly the pressure is too much when the folds adduct to modulate higher. So practicing doing high notes first will make you sing more solid but you might squeeze your low notes unless you soften them.

This might not be what you're talking about but hey, a shot in a ditch.

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This might not be what you're talking about but hey, a shot in a ditch.

 

Yup, sound clip time. The second description didn't help me too much either but yours kind of makes sense. Consonants can increase air pressure/compression. So if you're overblowing or overcompressing they might become uncomfortable?

 

But sound clip time. Seriously.

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Holy (*auto edit*) I think I understand!

Dude, the reason it's easier to sing high first, modulate down and then back up is because your headvoice, which is likely to be a weaker coordination, sets a sort of a cap to your air pressure. If you start in chest you're likely to really beef it up, then suddenly the pressure is too much when the folds adduct to modulate higher. So practicing doing high notes first will make you sing more solid but you might squeeze your low notes unless you soften them.

This might not be what you're talking about but hey, a shot in a ditch.

 

 

Yea thats bassically what i meant. if you oversing the bottom you might go too hard toward the top and bassically have a hard time. But if you start at top you bring down that "mellowness" that is allowing you to go back up again.

 

Khass explained it better xD

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Hello everyone, recently I notice something weird, some songs I sing in the lower register are very fast, tons of consonants, using all the vowels, my voice almost totally blown out after - can barely enter head voice :(. During scales and sirens D2-D5 is not uncomfortable and my voice does not feel heavy but after singing this fast low song my voice is not flexible. I realized also why frisells top-down exercise didn't work for me; it is too far away from singing. The TVS quack and release I do is kind of closer to singing. Then I realize that in order for me to be able to enter headvoice from those low notes (around e2, f2, g2) I must be in a place that can do that. There is no exercise or shortcut to stop the consonants from hurting me, I am trying my best to do the song over and over till it feels fluid. However, I feel that if I do the song at C5, or D5 in falsetto (like mickey mouse, not breathy), then down to original key it helps bring the weight of my voice, it feels easier to go back into headvoice because I just came from there. Is this wrong? or something worth doing?

   JackCee wrote:

" I feel that if I do the song at C5, or D5 in falsetto (like mickey mouse, not breathy), then down to original key it helps bring the weight of my voice, it feels easier to go back into headvoice because I just came from there. Is this wrong? or something worth doing? "

 

 

This is the idea you are going for with the TOP-Down phonations.  Learning how to shed the weight. From the top down.

 

 

All lower notes should have SOME top resonance.

 

JackCee wrote:

"Hello everyone, recently I notice something weird, some songs I sing in the lower register are very fast, tons of consonants, using all the vowels, my voice almost totally blown out after - can barely enter head voice :("

 

  Too weighty to begin with. Too much sound in the throat?   

 

Other than that, leave a sample. :)

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Sorry for low quality guys, if I do this song 5 times in a row, I am unable to sing A4-D5 with good quality. http://www.mediafire.com/listen/zm2md4437542hh8/Truffle_Butter_(Freestyle)_jackcee.mp3 the song I am working on is slightly lower and much faster. It is easier for me to sing Old Man River Humming and lip bubbles is stuff that I have tried but to no avail, the rapid consonants and low pitch is leading to over-compressing my voice and eventually hurting me. Besides from the top-down singing I have tried a long "HAH" which in my lower voice has lead to less "grabbing" but reappears when I have to sing low and articulate fast. Honestly, thanks for everyone's help I really appreciate you guys taking the time to reply. I apologize again if my explanation is bad... if I say "walk up to the plate, and i bat it" in mickey voice and bring it down a few notes, then down some more, till the pitch, my voice feels more agile. The chest voice consonants is where I feel almost like 'hands clapping' instead of fluidity.

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On the Old Man River it sounds like you're really pushing it down there.

You need to work on your articulation as well, you sound a little sloppy on words, I apologise if I offend.

 

You need to remember to keep a ping in your voice when you sing down there or it gets muddy.

 

The rapping sounds fine to me.

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Sorry for low quality guys, if I do this song 5 times in a row, I am unable to sing A4-D5 with good quality. http://www.mediafire.com/listen/zm2md4437542hh8/Truffle_Butter_(Freestyle)_jackcee.mp3 the song I am working on is slightly lower and much faster. It is easier for me to sing Old Man River Humming and lip bubbles is stuff that I have tried but to no avail, the rapid consonants and low pitch is leading to over-compressing my voice and eventually hurting me. Besides from the top-down singing I have tried a long "HAH" which in my lower voice has lead to less "grabbing" but reappears when I have to sing low and articulate fast. Honestly, thanks for everyone's help I really appreciate you guys taking the time to reply. I apologize again if my explanation is bad... if I say "walk up to the plate, and i bat it" in mickey voice and bring it down a few notes, then down some more, till the pitch, my voice feels more agile. The chest voice consonants is where I feel almost like 'hands clapping' instead of fluidity.

So, don't sing that song 5 times in a row. Plus, I think, on Old Man River, you are singing out of your range, so to speak. That is, yes, you can make some of the notes but don't think that is all there is to your voice. Plus, you are singing that song with more force than the rap song. That is, it is not just the range of the song, it is how you are singing the song that is making a difference. Your whole attack is lighter in the rap song, and you are trying to sound profundo on Old Man River.

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