Jump to content

Rate this topic


Elvis
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hey guys! Im trying to get the hang of singing in head voice so i was wondering is this correct sound.

 

I wasnt able to do this a while ago and it was pure falsetto, but since i got Pillars alot of good stuff happened so i just wanted to see if this is a good direction in which im going.

 

Take not that it isnt really crazy full or great cuz im just getting used to this configuration. Its a bit uncntrolled and very "new" to me but its a new sound that is starting to take some shape compared to crazy chest pulling and falsetto.

 

I sang a phrase from Led Zeppelin's Black Dog that ranges from F#4-Eb5. First i sang the phrase in falsetto and then i used what im working on these days, a lil more full sound.

 

https://app.box.com/s/mxdgxlzcrc1u2j0n9lodzglns9dfn89p

 

P.S. when i say "correct" i mean full and not whimpy and falsettoish :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds great to me! As you said yourself, it is still not 100% under control, but if you don't feel it in your throat I think you are on the right track man. Congrats. Now you just need to practice, and practice... hehehe. Keep rocking Elvis!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, man! Definitely, you are on the right way to your head voice. There are two things. First, try to hold back the air when you go higher. Secord, pay attention to the resonance. Try to sing in such a way as if you were "inhaling" the head resonance (I mean, don't push, but try to make "a wall" of resonance on your face).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow guys thanks alot. Yea this doesent hurt or anything and its preety free sound But still kinda hard to execute right now cuz its still WIP. Yea Jugulator you picked up the main probleM and thats air managment. Its preety windy. Not as windy as falsetto but i cant keep this up on longer phrases. Gonna work on that.

Thanks guys for comments, it really motivates me when you guys tell me this is a right way to go  :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh man, you picked a toughy. Way to go.

 

When you're doing a song like this, you have to very mindful (as mentioned before) of not overblowing (too much air). This is one where you really have to control an instinctual tendency to overpower.  Resonance is the key.

 

I personally think when you do this live, you really have to nail it because the audience is so familiar with it and his voice that they block out anything but magic.  Plant is very challenging to do justice to and the audience knows it.

 

I've done it in the past and it's a bitch.  Also realize I don't think Plant ever got anywhere near the sound on the recording live.

 

And with that said, it's a perfect time to throw in a Lou G. cover of this tune....LOL!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does sound like too much air a little but the placement sounds pretty good for getting this sound. Can you try it right at the point before it distorts? I like the way Dan talks about learning it clean, and then learning it distorted.

 

When I recently did my 80s voice, I basically threw the kitchen sink at the voice, but there is an area prior to it distorting that sounds fuller than a typical falsetto.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer Gramm on that one. he sounds more expressive in his tone. 

 

The other guy sounds like he has the Spinal Tap vocal amp turned to 11 the whole song, where as Gramm seems to have more dynamics in both timbre and is working the song.

 

It's thicker, but that's kind of the problem I have connecting with it, is it doesn't vary with emotion or the story of the song.  It's like thickness for the sake of thickness. I don't know what he is trying to express except thickness of voice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer Gramm on that one. he sounds more expressive in his tone. 

 

The other guy sounds like he has the Spinal Tap vocal amp turned to 11 the whole song, where as Gramm seems to have more dynamics in both timbre and is working the song.

 

It's thicker, but that's kind of the problem I have connecting with it, is it doesn't vary with emotion or the story of the song.  It's like thickness for the sake of thickness. I don't know what he is trying to express except thickness of voice.

 

 

How about cockyness, self-confidence, domination? There are more emotions than the "blue" ones and the "happy" ones. Statement also has a role in music and art.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about cockyness, self-confidence, domination? There are more emotions than the "blue" ones and the "happy" ones. Statement also has a role in music and art.

 

I don't get those emotions from screeching high pitched sounds. I'd be terrified of a bass voice that threatened to kick my ass as chances are he's likely one big dude who could dominate me.

 

The high pitch screech sounds comparably weak to me. I don't think there is anything people can do to make it sound tough for me as it's just too high. I'm an evolved ape, when other apes sound big, they sound more intimidating. It's probably a primitive response. Generally, the higher it is, it sounds less threatening.

 

If I was in a fist fight, I would not use a soprano sound. If I wanted to appear confident in an interview, I wouldn't use a soprano sound. If I wanted to violate gender norms and make a powerful artistic statement by conveying something feminine, I might make a soprano sound.

 

Trying to keep the sound as thick as possible as it ascends can sound almost more insecure to me at times. Like someone is so dominated by gender norms and cultural expectations of what a man should sound like they might be afraid of sounding feminine as people might make fun of them if they do.

 

One of the best examples to me of someone that sounds extremely confident and cocky is Prince. He'll wear purple frilly outfits, makeup and all sorts of crazy stuff. He'll make any sound he wants with his voice with no fear. Wear makeup. If he was afraid of being made fun of, he couldn't do what he does. He has to be brave.

 

I don't think he sounds tough and dominating, like a bass. If he were to call me up on the phone and use the voice he uses on "Kiss" to say he know exactly where I live, was going to kill me, I'd probably laugh. If Robert Plant made the same phone call with that shriek thing, I'd be laughing too. If a big sounding guy, calls me up, and says he's gonna take domination to ultimate conclusion, like he means business. What did I do to get this guy so pissed off?

 

I'm not particularly interested in dominance. I don't think much good comes from it. War, death, poverty, oppression, but there is a sound I associate with it. It's not any kind of head voice I know. Maybe a highly deranged one, like a serial killer or someone who is extremely mentally unstable.  But that sounds more like they'd be losing control, and not necessarily in control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Back on topic, I took a shot here and showed different amounts of closure in between the initial falsetto and thicker last sound.

 

https://app.box.com/s/p50h46q78yxnj1awovgwf04kh3p0btrj

 

This is one of my main technical goals right now. Some areas are less stable than others. I feel like if I could get each area stable, I could sing almost anything I want to as I want to. White to black gradient instead of segments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get those emotions from screeching high pitched sounds. I'd be terrified of a bass voice that threatened to kick my ass as chances are he's likely one big dude who could dominate me.

 

The high pitch screech sounds comparably weak to me. I don't think there is anything people can do to make it sound tough for me as it's just too high. I'm an evolved ape, when other apes sound big, they sound more intimidating. It's probably a primitive response. Generally, the higher it is, it sounds less threatening.

 

If I was in a fist fight, I would not use a soprano sound. If I wanted to appear confident in an interview, I wouldn't use a soprano sound. If I wanted to violate gender norms and make a powerful artistic statement by conveying something feminine, I might make a soprano sound.

 

Trying to keep the sound as thick as possible as it ascends can sound almost more insecure to me at times. Like someone is so dominated by gender norms and cultural expectations of what a man should sound like they might be afraid of sounding feminine as people might make fun of them if they do.

 

I think higher notes can have a certain heroic or clarion quality that lower tones can't get though.  A great example would be this tune I like here here that tops at C#5 yet still retains most of the girth of your avereage lower fourth octave vocals.  I believe there are certain feelings that are better conveyed in certain ranges.  Of course, the possibilities of a human voice are endless so it's not such a black and white thing.

 

 

Now that is head voice thickness.  Jens, you should do a cover of this song one day.   ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think higher notes can have a certain heroic or clarion quality that lower tones can't get though.  A great example would be this tune I like here here that tops at C#5 yet still retains most of the girth of your avereage lower fourth octave vocals.  I believe there are certain feelings that are better conveyed in certain ranges.  Of course, the possibilities of a human voice are endless so it's not such a black and white thing.

 

 

Now that is head voice thickness.  Jens, you should do a cover of this song one day.   ;)

 

I can agree with that, but the bottom of the fifth octave is still within shouting range. And some of our ancestors likely had rallying battle cries in this range which is possibly where the heroic association may come from. The loudest, most energetic sound would be called by a war leader to be heard by an army without amplification.

 

A5 to C6?  What is it even trying to say? Which ancestor did this and to express what?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can agree with that, but the bottom of the fifth octave is still within shouting range. And some of our ancestors likely had rallying battle cries in this range which is possibly where the heroic association may come from. The loudest, most energetic sound would be called by a war leader to be heard by an army without amplification.

 

A5 to C6?  What is it even trying to say? Which ancestor did this and to express what?

 

Haha well yeah I agree then, but "Black Dog" is only up to Eb5 if I recall correctly so that's not so bad either.  But I get what you are saying about how can a voice sound masculine or "powerful" at pitches so far beyond what anyone would reasonably use in a real life scenario that required the voice to make a convincing statement.  There is really no place where a man is going to go above the fifth octave in that respect unless he is trying to be comedic.  

 

But this is singing though; all sounds are fair game.  If someone wants to sound like a woman, chimpanzee, dolphin, synthesizer, etc that's cool with me. Hell, I might even enjoy listening to it.  :ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haha well yeah I agree then, but "Black Dog" is only up to Eb5 if I recall correctly so that's not so bad either.  But I get what you are saying about how can a voice sound masculine or "powerful" at pitches so far beyond what anyone would reasonably use in a real life scenario that required the voice to make a convincing statement.  There is really no place where a man is going to go above the fifth octave in that respect unless he is trying to be comedic.  

 

But this is singing though; all sounds are fair game.  If someone wants to sound like a woman, chimpanzee, dolphin, synthesizer, etc that's cool with me. Hell, I might even enjoy listening to it.  :ph34r:

 

I do like Robert Plant. I can relate to many of his songs and the way he expresses them. I've heard plenty of sides of his voice, he doesn't aim for maximum thickness on every note and seems attempt to convey various emotions in his songs. I've heard from numerous people who believed he was probably gay back in the 70s due to his effeminate mannerisms both on stage and with singing. 

 

He doesn't strike me as a singer who was aiming for the highest thickest masculine sound he could get which is part of why I was curious on this subject. He sings about flowers in hair, pockets full of gold, stairways to heaven, The Lord of the Rings, praises Elvis, shrugs at heavy metal as if to say he's not responsible, praises love, peace, and rock n roll. He's one of the last guys I'd picture trying to do this thing.  He didn't have vocal lessons to my knowledge, so as best as I can picture his vocal development he was coming out of the hippie era, likely wasn't afraid of feminine sounds possibly due to cultural factors, and stumbled into some raspy head voice.

 

One of his concert quips is 'does anyone remember laughter?' Does this sound tough to you guys?

 

Back to high and thick. To be clear, I'm not saying singing as high and as thick as possible conveys 'nothing.' I just haven't been able to place what it conveys.The only thing I know is in my voice: high and thick feels like a stairway to 'heaven' where this would be heaven:

 

 

I think the point where this stairway turns into hell varies from voice to voice and listener to listener, but I don't think that's the one Plant was climbing. I think he just chased sounds that were meaningful to him too, could relate to, and expressed those sounds.

 

He didn't seem overly concerned with avoiding sounding or looking like a wimp while he pranced around like a fairy in women's shirts, tight pants and paraded a traditionally female haircut about like a mane. If anything, he could go too far sometimes. I like him, but I know people who won't listen to him, not because his voice is too thick and he's too intimidating, but because they think he sounds and presents himself like an annoyingly effeminate banshee. I would never argue with this, as it's really what makes him most interesting to me and where a lot of his charisma comes from and to my knowledge there really weren't many artists like him prior to his arrival. Lots of people imitated him, tried to get the banshee wail higher and thicker, tried to make the hair bigger, the pants tighter, etc, and very few interested me. It was how the voice fit into the persona and how he used it to convey things that most interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Makes gram sound like a kitten ;)

Jens - he is great on this. I like Lou's version too. Are both Lou and this guy using false fold distortion on the these? And is that the same kind that Robert uses or is Robert using creak? They both have great control over distortion in that range.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jörn is insane. I don't get how he's got a total handle on that tone, he can sing anything with it and he's still really free to do little runs here and there. And he's been doing that for quite a while. He did do Starfire with clean vocals when he was younger but I guess he sorta learned the distortion and never put it down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I might understand what the high thick timbre is conveying. Where it sounds most successful to me, is within kind of a mythological, fantasy, theatrical or over the top context such as in this genre here which survived the 80s hair metal thing.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_metal

 

Led Zeppelin covered this territory and were perhaps originators of it by tackling mythological and occult subjects, but Plant was predominately a rock n roll guy who would sing about sex and relationships just as much as anything. Black Dog is a sex song, kind of a primal, raw message so it sounds extra strange to hear someone relating it without the raw primal urgency.

 

The 'mythological banshee relating epic fantasy tales' has a context I can understand. It does sound odd to me in rock n roll or songs relating primitive, urgent, and flawed human emotions. But in a fantasy theatrical setting I can see how having mythological creatures telling stories can mean something else and has survived as an enduring art form.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jens, Lou's seems more soulful.

 

Jorn is great too, but comes across more one dimensional.

 

But you're more of a metal guy than me anyway lol!!!

 

And what song and genre is most synonymous with relating lust and sex:

 

 

Both Lou and Plant have some Marvin in them. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jens, Lou's seems more soulful.

 

Jorn is great too, but comes across more one dimensional.

 

But you're more of a metal guy than me anyway lol!!!

 

I prefer Lou's version too and I enjoy metal vocalists.  Sometimes I get the same feeling as you though Bob.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Elvis, I like your post here... and I really like your approach. The way you chose to use Falsetto to establish your placement first, just to get oriented and then engaged your intrinsic anchoring musculature, is a REALLY smart way to go about trouble-shooting vocal problems inside of M2.

 

You may not realize this, but you created a little "work flow":

 

1). Establish Placement and Pitch.

 

2). Engage Intrinsic Musculature and Tune.

 

In a small way, that it reminds us of the Messa di Voce Onset a bit... which utilizes Falsetto vocal mode as a means to do a similar thing... Makes me proud, your training smart.... seems you have been learning some good training techniques...  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what song and genre is most synonymous with relating lust and sex:

 

 

Both Lou and Plant have some Marvin in them. :D

 

Yes, and these are bottom up singers. These are shouting, belty, screamy kick ass singers who evolved into masters of vowels (and they probably didn't even know it). 

 

Listen to this animal (and I mean that in a good way).

 

 

and here...sick! 

 

That's M1 baby, pure and oh so not simple!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...