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Elvis

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Aww you guys and your girly vocalists ;)

 

LOL... right?  Girly Guy singers... its popular these days... 

 

 

Actually this is good singing... but, it's kinda... ?  Uhm... Well, lets just say its not brother Bruce!!! When men used to be men!!!

 

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Bro if you were jealous of my new avatar you could just come at me like a man you don't have to bring John Lennon into this. :D

This is what plays in My head When i see your way over the top beautiful avatar

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;)

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This is what plays in My head When i see your way over the top beautiful avatar

">

;)

 

That is a low blow dude what the hell!  LOL, I thought we were friends!  You're killin me smalls.  One does not simply say another man reminds them of that song, that's an evil thing you've just done there.  :)

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Here is a good example of a good video that doesn't tell the whole story.  A beginner watches this and ends up possibly hurting themselves.

 

Assuming you have those notes available in your range to begin with, he doesn't mention that you shouldn't go anywhere near this stuff until you have warmed up to the point where you feel more height and lift and more openness. You have to warm up till you feel a timbre change.

 

Only you can figure this out for yourself.

 

You also need to have your support and your whole mind & body ready to do this kind of singing.  

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I know someone posted this at some point somwhere in TMV. This is a pretty good clip on singing with a heavier tone in the headvoice. I think Ken sounds a bit darker than Plant though.

 

I agree, his tone has a deeper resonance to my ears.  I think Ken is indeed a really great example of thickness in head voice though for sure.  

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Here is a good example of a good video that doesn't tell the whole story.  A beginner watches this and ends up possibly hurting themselves.

 

Assuming you have those notes available in your range to begin with, he doesn't mention that you shouldn't go anywhere near this stuff until you have warmed up to the point where you feel more height and lift and more openness. You have to warm up till you feel a timbre change.

 

Only you can figure this out for yourself.

 

You also need to have your support and your whole mind & body ready to do this kind of singing.  

 

I'm big on this issue too, Bob. I'll never know if my issues were related to rushing a bunch of weird singing stuff into my voice or not, but I'm always thinking about how if someone jumps into some singing concept they don't understand completely intellectually and they don't have the cooordination apply physiologically.

 

They think watching some video is going to give them some magical way of flicking some switch somewhere. The most common result is forcing. It takes time for things to develop, even for prodigies. That's part of what I dislike the most about this how to sing like X. There is always this vibe like there is instant gratification. Like you aren't going to be busting your ass training and then one day, you might be able to approximate something similar to X.

 

It's way safer for a voice to take its time, keep track of what you can currently do. Keep that healthy and stable. Becoming X overnight. Just a bad idea.

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I'm big on this issue too, Bob. I'll never know if my issues were related to rushing a bunch of weird singing stuff into my voice or not, but I'm always thinking about how if someone jumps into some singing concept they don't understand completely intellectually and they don't have the cooordination apply physiologically.

 

They think watching some video is going to give them some magical way of flicking some switch somewhere. The most common result is forcing. It takes time for things to develop, even for prodigies. That's part of what I dislike the most about this how to sing like X. There is always this vibe like there is instant gratification. Like you aren't going to be busting your ass training and then one day, you might be able to approximate something similar to X.

 

It's way safer for a voice to take its time, keep track of what you can currently do. Keep that healthy and stable. Becoming X overnight. Just a bad idea.

 

Yes, warming up (and enough of it) often gets overlooked or skipped over.  It can take quite a while sometimes to get to that released and openness so, so  important..... important to also gauge your true training progress!!

 

How can you tell where you're at until you reached that point first?  A lot of singers think the warm up and the workout are the same and they are not always.....

 

I can take a good 45 minutes or more to get fully ready to sing......and that's not always in a row, it could be in spurts throughout the day....

 

Then you have the talking you might have done throughout the day which can either hasten or hinder a good solid warmup...phlegm to knock out...fun, fun, fun, lol!!!

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Here is a good example of a good video that doesn't tell the whole story. A beginner watches this and ends up possibly hurting themselves.

Assuming you have those notes available in your range to begin with, he doesn't mention that you shouldn't go anywhere near this stuff until you have warmed up to the point where you feel more height and lift and more openness. You have to warm up till you feel a timbre change.

Only you can figure this out for yourself.

You also need to have your support and your whole mind & body ready to do this kind of singing.

"This kind of singing" should e approached just like Ken says in the video. What he says is that the trouble arises from trying to carry the mass of a heavy chest voice into the higher register. He specifies not to do that. So whatever warmup anyone does (I don't think singing "whole lotta love" like this qualifies as warm up, so let's assume people warm up according to their preferences), that should be enough to warm up to singing like whatever. After all, it's about the balance. Again: watch how he demonstrates how to NOT do it, a part nobody ever seems to get when watching his videos since that seems to be the part everyone misses.

It's not about trying to sing like Ken does, it'd about learning how to do what he does with yout voice. And it's not really informative to say "Don't go out of the gate as a raw beginner and sing Symphony X." I think that's just common sense.

I really like "how to sing like ..." video titles. "This is how you sing like freddie mercury." then sing like freddie mercury. :D People get pissed because "it's not a proper teaching video." It isn't. It's a video on how to sing like freddie mercury. :D The comment section is there, anyone can tell him to piss off and how he's not sounding anything like freddie.

I posted the video as an example of what I see as "head voice thickness."

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyLLBd1FTIU

 

      It is pretty neat to see the similarities and the differences of approach(term wise and examples) when applying technique.

I don't think people really understand the idea of the "How to sing like" videos. I don't thnk they were ever meant to be "Training" videos or exercise tips.

More along the lines of how and when to apply some of the things you were training.  What your training can do as opposed to how to train.

    You will also notice that they are usually "How to sing like" NOT "How to SOUND like". There is a difference. None of this is to be carbon copies of any singer.

   Even in this thread of Headvoice thickness it has been mentioned that the "Thickness" mainly comes from one type of distortion or another but has not been demonstrated HOW to train the distortion or What Type of distortion or a safe way to Apply the distortion. We have had examples of some but not How to do it.

    Of course this has taken me a while to type out so maybe someone has while I was typing this.

 

  I may have crossed threads with that other Headvoice thickness thread that is going on now.... but the point remains the same.

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I know someone posted this at some point somwhere in TMV. This is a pretty good clip on singing with a heavier tone in the headvoice. I think Ken sounds a bit darker than Plant though.

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Hehe sounds more belty to me actualy :) anyways the video should be called how to sing led zeppelin like David coverdale ;)

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Ken mentions some very important thing in the end. If you want to sing the head voice powerful you have to back down in the middle range, kind of a compromise. I'm always struggling with this because I really like to make "epic" D4's and E4's. But then it gets really complicated to do anything above the G4 with power behind it.

 

Very good if you can change this approach from song to song. If you ever heard what Adam Lambert did on "Born to be Wild" you may notice that sometimes you just need powerful middle voice notes or it sounds weird depending on the song.

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Ken mentions some very important thing in the end. If you want to sing the head voice powerful you have to back down in the middle range, kind of a compromise. I'm always struggling with this because I really like to make "epic" D4's and E4's. But then it gets really complicated to do anything above the G4 with power behind it.

Very good if you can change this approach from song to song. If you ever heard what Adam Lambert did on "Born to be Wild" you may notice that sometimes you just need powerful middle voice notes or it sounds weird depending on the song.

Same thing with me. If i sing with some power in middle range i completely block out anything above G4. Not that i can sing very higher than that but still it limits me there.

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That is what happens when you don't have the resonance pocketed... Lighten the mass, bridge early... or nail your resonance. 

 

As I tried to explain, Ken's video is mostly about onsets, at least the first half on the Led Zeppelin tune. The point that we don't want to push for high notes is not the main point... we all already know that. It wasn't Ken's lesson... The points he makes that are interesting are, the onsets... the compressed position (Q&R) and the open glottal position (W&R). This is a lesson about onsets, and anyone who recognizes that, is getting the most value from it. If you don't recognize that, your missing the main point.

 

Heavy mass, light mass, medium mass, what ever... his point is, you can control the mass, or more specifically... get a good "entrance" to your placement, among other things, if you know how to compress or open the glottis at... THE ONSET. Which is precisely my point in "4Pillars" as well... but I have gone deeper and defined what they are, what they can do for you, when, why and how to use them. 

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That is what happens when you don't have the resonance pocketed... Lighten the mass, bridge early... or nail your resonance.

As I tried to explain, Ken's video is mostly about onsets, at least the first half on the Led Zeppelin tune. The point that we don't want to push for high notes is not the main point... we all already know that. It wasn't Ken's lesson... The points he makes that are interesting are, the onsets... the compressed position (Q&R) and the open glottal position (W&R). This is a lesson about onsets, and anyone who recognizes that, is getting the most value from it. If you don't recognize that, your missing the main point.

Yep. The onsets are the one thing that probably brought me the biggest proggress.

And i agree. If you dont start the nite here the correct way, this song can eat you up

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... Yes Elvis... I guess my previous response was based a bit out of frustration because, although that is REALLY what Ken is talking about, I didn't particularly feel it was all that clear. I was just trying to actually support Ken's message by clarifying the points he is trying to make. "Do it like this"... is just not as clear as actually knowing what it is your trying to explain. That is not a slight on Ken, he is great... Im just trying to help you guys here and give you a lesson, in a lesson...

 

Ken's lesson is, whether he is completely aware of it or not is, "... pay attention to your onsets... and here are a few onsets that help me to get into the right position for this song"... which is a great lesson... my lesson in the lesson is, "... here is actually what you call those onsets, here is what, where, when and why you would use them... and really get to know your material... be able to "name" things. Be able to point at it and say, 'that is a 'Q&R' onset, characterized by hyper compression of the glottis... not, "kinda whine like this". I'm challenging you guys to really know what things are... "4Pillars" is really good at teaching that... 

 

I would challenge you guys to listen for different onsets in other singers... when singing, the onsets will fly by really fast, so you have to listen closely... but if you try this, you will see that you can hear people using primarily... Q&R, W&R, T&R, D&R & A&R onsets ALL THE TIME... These are the 5 TVS Onsets that we see in singing regularly, the other three, C&R, Messa di Voce and P&R are more specialized and are only seen in training.  

 

That may be boring as hell to you, but I think its interesting... particularly when you begin to see patterns and consistencies between what you are training and what happens when singing. When you see that connection, it validates the idea.

 

Ok, Ive made my point... Just being a teacher here guys... thanks for putting up with me...

 

Elvis, how are things going since our session together?

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Elvis, how are things going since our session together?

 

Robert i cant thank you enough for providing the service to me. Its been going great and ill soon make a cover in which i will demonstrate what i learned.

I finally found out the sensationf of Edging or placing resonance forward, really helped me sound more convincing in my head voice as opposed to the clip in the original post of this thread, I still cant control it they way i would want it but for that it takes time ;)

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Ya! I am happy to hear that!  Yes, the forward resonant vowels are more tricky.. takes more work and practice then kinda ... sitting back into the curbing vowels... keep going... but remember... you need BOTH resonant positions at the same time.. not really one or the other.. both.

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