JackCee Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hi guys, my range is not that great, I can sing in head voice only up to E5 before I cannot get higher. I can use chest range up to F4. The interesting thing to me is that I can sing the same note in head voice and chest voice at multiple pitches below F4. I read in my studies that Manuel Garcia did this with his student, but in my CVT book it says it is dangerous to use falsetto below C5. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but is there any benefit to singing the same note in m1 and then m2 or is this unhealthy for the voice? How is this beneficial or harmful for male voice training? After doing this back and forth for a couple of minutes my voice feels awkward and confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khassera Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 in my CVT book it says it is dangerous to use falsetto below C5. I guess using excess air would be detrimental, but that would be the case in headvoice and chest voice too, so that's just another way to say don't use too much air. If you manage the air it's perfectly alright to use falsetto all throughout your range. I think "dragging headvoice down" should be a part of every singer's routine just to build confidence in allowing the head resonance to carry more weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexy Beast Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 in my CVT book it says it is dangerous to use falsetto below C5 They are talking about "flageolet"... whatever that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny82 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 It's still kind of unsure what the flageolet in CVT terms actually is. Martin H, who has a lot of knowledge about CVT, thinks that it is the same as M2. However, I'm not sure about that because it would mean that you should avoid M2 below your high C, which is especially not true for female classical singers. I think flageolet is a specific mechanism that can (but doesn't have to) happen when (and only when) you are using M2. It is kind of a sub-mechanism of M2. I also think that CVT is correct in saying that you should not use it in the lower and middle range and that it automatically kicks in from a certain pitch on. I think flageolet corresponds to the Estill term of "stiff folds". It is a situation where your vocalis muscle gets completely stiff and thus you are unable to use M1 anymore. Within the range where M1 is still possible for your voice (which for most males is up to Bb4-C5) you should not use a mode that actually prevents the use of M1. This is also the reason why you usually can prevent flageolet by just singing louder. Singing louder will keep your TA active and thus prevent the vocalis muscle from getting stiff. The standard intuitive "airy falsetto" in my opinion is in most cases not "flageolet mode", it is rather a mode that Estill would call "thin folds". Flageolet mode really has some kind of "stiffness" attached to its sound and also often has a nasal component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerKu Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm pretty sure CVT is talking about flageolet/whistle/whatever and that falsetto is 'neutral' in CVT terms. Anyway, the area above falsetto feels noticeably different for me, in that it is a narrow, less resonating, and stiffer sound. I find extended use of it tends to fatigue me more than other areas of the voice and that it often overly lightens my voice so I don't use it very much. My best advice to relieve any tensions would be to take neutral/falsetto into a relaxed upper speaking range (think how Michael Jackson talked) and then send it back up into bridge and above so it is resonant and free from tension. From there I find that a really nice position to work from. I really like the name neutral for this reason, as I find I can ease towards other phonations much easier with a home base reference note that is free from tension/straining etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hi guys, my range is not that great, I can sing in head voice only up to E5 before I cannot get higher. I can use chest range up to F4. The interesting thing to me is that I can sing the same note in head voice and chest voice at multiple pitches below F4. I read in my studies that Manuel Garcia did this with his student, but in my CVT book it says it is dangerous to use falsetto below C5. I am sorry if this is a dumb question but is there any benefit to singing the same note in m1 and then m2 or is this unhealthy for the voice? How is this beneficial or harmful for male voice training? After doing this back and forth for a couple of minutes my voice feels awkward and confused. yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Falsetto is neutral, IF you sing very very thin in falsetto you get into flageolet, so no CVT never made that claim So yes it's a pretty "dumb" question, reread the CVT material cause what you wrote here is just taken out of context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Neutral can be done in modal voice too... And, from the samples Ive heard so far on CVT, what they call flageolet is indeed M2 used out of place... The real "deal" of M1 and M2 is that they have limitations in regards to the amount of closure you can use, the lower you use M2 on the range, the lower the amount of closure you can possibly use. So the more intense qualities on that area will need to be done on M1, or else you can end up forcing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Neutral can be done in modal voice too... And, from the samples Ive heard so far on CVT, what they call flageolet is indeed M2 used out of place... The real "deal" of M1 and M2 is that they have limitations in regards to the amount of closure you can use, the lower you use M2 on the range, the lower the amount of closure you can possibly use. So the more intense qualities on that area will need to be done on M1, or else you can end up forcing.Neutral can be done in modal voice too... And, from the samples Ive heard so far on CVT, what they call flageolet is indeed M2 used out of place... The real "deal" of M1 and M2 is that they have limitations in regards to the amount of closure you can use, the lower you use M2 on the range, the lower the amount of closure you can possibly use. So the more intense qualities on that area will need to be done on M1, or else you can end up forcing. The thing CVT Calls flageolet or dangerous flageolet is the whistlevoice tension brought to low in the voice, falsetto can have this tension but it would usually not be called falsetto but a whiny cracky mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Fraser Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 IMO, use it in training if you have a specific goal and process in mind, but remember that you are building muscle memory. Garcia was right... Practice most of the time just the way you will perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khassera Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Practice most of the time just the way you will perform. I sing pretty narrow, and I was inspired by Jens' post on the other jävla finnar's heaven and hell thread to try the operatic kind of belt. I got a little crazy with it since I could sing much louder, so I just kinda let it goooo let it goooooo. I had a hard time resetting my voice to what I was doing earlier. Scary. Voodoo stuff, man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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