basslord1124 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 All right, 4-5 months ago I re-joined my father's band (I used to play in it when I was younger). I play bass as well as harmony vocals and just recently lead vocals on a few tunes. As time goes on I will probably be doing more lead vocals. My issue is that anytime I have done lead vocals with the band I can barely hear myself. Things were a little better the last night we played but still a little rough for me. I would feel much more comfortable singing leads (and probably perform them better) if I could hear myself better. But I got some things working against me...1) this is actually the first time singing leads in a full band situation. I have sang lead stuff in church with no problems but that was on a smaller scale. Usually acoustic instruments (guitar/piano) small room, small PA, etc. Now I've got full volume band behind me, drums, electric guitars, etc. And that's quite the change for me when I'm used to singing in more low volume situations. 2) PA ...my dad is the one who set up the PA for the band.Now I don't claim to be a pro on running a PA but I know I have corrected some issues here and there when dad is running the PA. I think he tries his best for the time he can spend on it and makes it passable for at least what the audience hears. With that in mind I think the monitor mix suffers b/c both the drummer and myself can't hear anything out of the monitors. I'm going to address that with him to see if we can fix that. I know when I have sang leads the past few times we played, I actually am hearing the mains moreso than the monitors. So anyways, that's my situation. I am hoping once the PA issue is fixed it might get easier. But also if anybody here has some thoughts/ideas/suggestions in terms of singing with a full volume band that is a newbie to it, I'd really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Either turn up the volume on the monitors or turn the amplifiers down on the instruments. The position of the monitor will make a difference also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basslord1124 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Pic has been uploaded. I may upload a more personal one later. Thanks for the reply MDEW, we play on Saturday's so this next Saturday I'll see about getting the monitors turned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Homer Rocks.......Ummm Guitar........DOH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 In addition, per Scott Grove and others, when you sing, get your mouth right up to the mic with it pointed right at your teeth. From the side or a foot away doesn't work. Your guitar strings are very close to the pick-ups. Treat your voice the same way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 In addition, per Scott Grove and others, when you sing, get your mouth right up to the mic with it pointed right at your teeth. From the side or a foot away doesn't work. Your guitar strings are very close to the pick-ups. Treat your voice the same way. Very good point Ronws.... Even on Videos of Professional singers they usually show people using the microphone WRONG. That is the director and photographers fault. To let the camera see your face. People get the wrong idea of how to use the Microphone. Half an inch away and you loose clarity and volume. If you sing from the side it will not pick up your voice. Use your own Microphone and practically put your lips on the thing while you are singing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basslord1124 Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 In addition, per Scott Grove and others, when you sing, get your mouth right up to the mic with it pointed right at your teeth. From the side or a foot away doesn't work. Your guitar strings are very close to the pick-ups. Treat your voice the same way. Very good point Ronws.... Even on Videos of Professional singers they usually show people using the microphone WRONG. That is the director and photographers fault. To let the camera see your face. People get the wrong idea of how to use the Microphone. Half an inch away and you loose clarity and volume. If you sing from the side it will not pick up your voice. Use your own Microphone and practically put your lips on the thing while you are singing. Awesome, thanks for the additional tips there guys. That's actually something I was not doing. When I have done recording I'd back off from the mic some...like perhaps a half inch or an inch or so. And I was keeping the same distance while we were playing live too. I'll definitely get closer next time. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Another thing to point out......Do not cover the front of the microphone with your hand like you see in some videos......That only creates feedback.....If holding the microphone in your hand....do not wave it around....Feedback....Do not let the microphone point to any speakers......Feedback....... The microphones should be BEHIND the PA speakers...........Monitors face you from the front and the microphone from the back of the mike not from your side. The monitors should never be in front of the PA speakers.......Feedback...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 another reason for not cupping the mic capsule or right near the head. A cardiod or directional mic actually has tuned ports at the base of the capsule. This allows to delayed signals from room noise and room echo to come and cancel out phases and keep the mic unidirectional. If you cover these tuned ports, they cannot cancel phase for you and you have just turned the mic into an omnidirectional that will pick up everything and make you sound weird, at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted April 22, 2015 Administrator Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks for helping him out guys... Thanks for uploading a pic, I think the Homer pic is great! Your getting good advise here... I would point out that you sound like you need "Live Sound" engineering advise, not only the PA gear... Not sure who had live sound engineering experience here... but you might try James Lugo, who is an audio engineer. He is one of our moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted April 22, 2015 Administrator Share Posted April 22, 2015 another reason for not cupping the mic capsule or right near the head. A cardiod or directional mic actually has tuned ports at the base of the capsule. This allows to delayed signals from room noise and room echo to come and cancel out phases and keep the mic unidirectional. If you cover these tuned ports, they cannot cancel phase for you and you have just turned the mic into an omnidirectional that will pick up everything and make you sound weird, at the least. This is an interesting point... as you guys may have noticed, I have been using a mic grip for years ... and you can see me doing it in my videos as well... that I call "The Cradle Grip"... its main purpose is really ergonomics, its a comfortable way to hold the mic. I did a video on two grips for microphones, including "The Cradle Grip", you can view below... But to the point, I sometimes get comments from people that say that this is not going to work and creates feedback and this and that... it seems to be the "gut", conventional response to my grip... but honestly, I NEVER get feedback with this "cupped" position, nor do my students who use it. The grip doesn't cover the diaphragm, it does hug the side of the mesh, but I have not found that this position creates feedback at all. It does however, "cup" the sound a bit, which I I have always felt was a benefit.. it tends to make microphones "boom" more... You can't even say, "lower frequency"... it has to be described as "boom"... and I like that! A lot of hand held live mics are thin and tingey ... Die hard live sound guys and people that know a lot about gear will scold me on this... but, it just doesn't make any mic feedback? Cupping the side of the mesh is NOT the same as covering the diaphragm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Good Point Robert, and you have used the microphone enough to know Not to cover the diaphragm and your fingers are what are on the mesh not your whole palm. The grip I am refering to is the one where you see people hold just the ball. Usually the thumb and middle finger are right on the mid point of the Ball where the two halves come together. When they sing the forefinger and thumb are usually touching their face above and below the lips. Basically the hand is covering everything that counts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Robert Lunte Posted April 22, 2015 Administrator Share Posted April 22, 2015 Oh ya, "screamo" guys do that... thats not what Im doing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 What about a solution for in ear monitoring? I'm not sure what setup you are running, but at rehearsal with my band I used a monitor channel from the mixer for the guitars into a small behringer mixer. And a line out from my vocal pedal into another channel on the small mixer. Then I use very isolating earphones from the small mixer - works both as earplugs and I can myself set the balance between guitars and vocals. If we would be playing live a lot more I'd invest in a wireless system, but for rehearsal it works great. Saves my voice when I can hear what I'm doing... Earplugs are Shure Se215, stays really well in my ears (use them for running with music in my ears too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Lugo Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 A really important thing is to like your monitor level before you start the night. Also a lot of tips on here already are good. Playing in a loud band, eating the mic is pretty much a given. My upper lip never leaves the mic unless I’m belting. Also if you’re using wedges make sure it far enough away. Sometimes if a wedge is right up on you it does’t have a sufficient angle to hit your ears, so basically your knees can hear your voice perfectly. lol But honestly the main thing is if you singing placement and resonance is on point you should be able to sing pretty much in key even if you can hear yourself. Just be careful not to over sing to compensate for the fact that you can’t hear yourself to well. Have faith that it’s getting out there and just have fun. Sell the sizzle! Also on a side note regarding in ears. If you think you may want to go that way try them first. Not everyone likes them and for a lot of people it can hurt your performance by isolating you to much and it kills your vibe. I tried them and they didn’t work for me, killed my guitar sound for me, so I just bought a killer floor monitor and a nice passive pair of high end ear plugs (-15db). A lot of people like in ears too so you have to find what works for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronws Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 A really important thing is to like your monitor level before you start the night. Also a lot of tips on here already are good. Playing in a loud band, eating the mic is pretty much a given. My upper lip never leaves the mic unless I’m belting. Also if you’re using wedges make sure it far enough away. Sometimes if a wedge is right up on you it does’t have a sufficient angle to hit your ears, so basically your knees can hear your voice perfectly. lol But honestly the main thing is if you singing placement and resonance is on point you should be able to sing pretty much in key even if you can hear yourself. Just be careful not to over sing to compensate for the fact that you can’t hear yourself to well. Have faith that it’s getting out there and just have fun. Sell the sizzle! Also on a side note regarding in ears. If you think you may want to go that way try them first. Not everyone likes them and for a lot of people it can hurt your performance by isolating you to much and it kills your vibe. I tried them and they didn’t work for me, killed my guitar sound for me, so I just bought a killer floor monitor and a nice passive pair of high end ear plugs (-15db). A lot of people like in ears too so you have to find what works for you. And that is how I would do it. Wedge far enough in front to be pointed at my ears, and plugs with some dB cut that keeps pitch accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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