Jump to content

Rate this topic


Simpan24

Recommended Posts

  • Administrator

I am pretty sure this is how 90% of all of our favorite singers learned how to sing..

That doesn't mean that it was easy to figure it out. For every rare talent that figured this out by the school of hard knocks, how many threw in the towel and never figured it out and gave up?  The argument is that with some basic understanding about how the voice works, some techniques and good training content, you don't have to rely on chance, luck, and what you were born with entirely... I can learn to play guitar pretty damn good if I just hack on the thing and go with my instincts long and hard enough.. but what if I took some lessons from a local pro to show me how to hold the neck, kicked my butt practice scales, practice with a metronome, understand the modal scales, etc... ? 

That some people clearly did not have today's contemporary vocal training programs to work from is not an argument for any lack of validity.  I remind you that vocal training programs such as mine, Kevin's, Ken's, etc... is a relatively new phenomenon in the art form. And I have to say, very welcome... nothing wrong with educating yourself and learning how to do things... working smart, not just hard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  You can get wrong ideas stuck in your head when working on your own, Even if you are diligent and practice every day. I am over 50 and though I have not practiced Simple Man everyday for 6 months, I have had over 3 months accumulated time of singing it and I still cannot sing that blasted A4 like Ronnie Van Zant sang it. It either falls flat or sounds girly. Skynnyrd should not sound girly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not saying not to learn if you are hitting a wall but it seems as though he was just trying to hit an A4 and I just said why not try some singing first then worry about what note you are hitting. And yes there are many contemporary programs to learn from our there. As a matter of fact Seth riggs first program (singing for the stars) helped me a lot when the cassettes were given to me back in the 90's..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  You can get wrong ideas stuck in your head when working on your own, Even if you are diligent and practice every day. I am over 50 and though I have not practiced Simple Man everyday for 6 months, I have had over 3 months accumulated time of singing it and I still cannot sing that blasted A4 like Ronnie Van Zant sang it. It either falls flat or sounds girly. Skynnyrd should not sound girly.

​Well, dang it, that leaves me out.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

​Well, dang it, that leaves me out.

 

​   It would still work with you, You have a consistent tone from bottom to top. With me it is like Dylan singing the low notes and Aretha Franklin jumping in for that one word.

"Be a Simple KIND of Man"...........That might work...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  You can get wrong ideas stuck in your head when working on your own, Even if you are diligent and practice every day. I am over 50 and though I have not practiced Simple Man everyday for 6 months, I have had over 3 months accumulated time of singing it and I still cannot sing that blasted A4 like Ronnie Van Zant sang it. It either falls flat or sounds girly. Skynnyrd should not sound girly.

​I understand where you are coming from MDEW, I feel your pain "amigo". I used to have the same problem in the exact same spot (A4), also with Iris, in the chorus, another A4. I just could not understand at that time why I had so much trouble singing those parts when I could sing a B4 or C5 in other songs... This is why we need to learn and practice how to achieve a "one voice", bridging the chest and head resonance, and avoid straining and pushing the chest resonance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That doesn't mean that it was easy to figure it out. For every rare talent that figured this out by the school of hard knocks, how many threw in the towel and never figured it out and gave up?  The argument is that with some basic understanding about how the voice works, some techniques and good training content, you don't have to rely on chance, luck, and what you were born with entirely... I can learn to play guitar pretty damn good if I just hack on the thing and go with my instincts long and hard enough.. but what if I took some lessons from a local pro to show me how to hold the neck, kicked my butt practice scales, practice with a metronome, understand the modal scales, etc... ? 

That some people clearly did not have today's contemporary vocal training programs to work from is not an argument for any lack of validity.  I remind you that vocal training programs such as mine, Kevin's, Ken's, etc... is a relatively new phenomenon in the art form. And I have to say, very welcome... nothing wrong with educating yourself and learning how to do things... working smart, not just hard. 

​Yeah I have to agree here.  Of course we hear about all the rare talents that pushed through self-taught and grew to be some of the best voices of all time.  However, what we don't hear is all the young guys who destroyed their voices approaching singing in the most unhealthy, unproductive way and ended up blowing their voices out before they were even in their 30s.  Well, I guess we do hear about one of them... Robert Plant. :D  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched Roberts video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Iep8ySElZ0 this one i am practicing on now the onset quack and release. Its really helpful. I knew i shouted and i was pulling chest voice too high so it sounded awful. I am practicing my head voice now it still sound too quiet and too airy but im not giving up. The only problem i have with the sirens is that my mental picture is that the frequency goes high and low instead of picture it near and far. But is falsetto the only way i can go into head voice?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched Roberts video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Iep8ySElZ0 this one i am practicing on now the onset quack and release. Its really helpful. I knew i shouted and i was pulling chest voice too high so it sounded awful. I am practicing my head voice now it still sound too quiet and too airy but im not giving up. The only problem i have with the sirens is that my mental picture is that the frequency goes high and low instead of picture it near and far. But is falsetto the only way i can go into head voice?

Early on probably. But you will soon get stronger. It doesent take long to learn and get the sound you want but it takes alooot of time to master it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  You can get wrong ideas stuck in your head when working on your own, Even if you are diligent and practice every day. I am over 50 and though I have not practiced Simple Man everyday for 6 months, I have had over 3 months accumulated time of singing it and I still cannot sing that blasted A4 like Ronnie Van Zant sang it. It either falls flat or sounds girly. Skynnyrd should not sound girly.

​M, ...it's a G4#

I used to do this tune...may I suggest you try this:

Sing "kind of" but choose which one of these two feels the best on you....you gotta go up top more narrow..."kind-a" will lock you up.

either "kind-uh" or "kin-erh"...sing the "erh" but from a mouth set up of an "oo." Give them a try. Here's an acapella track.

http://www.iafd.com/title.rme/title=Femme+Fatale/year=1984/femme-fatale.htm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

​M, ...it's a G4#

I used to do this tune...may I suggest you try this:

Sing "kind of" but choose which one of these two feels the best on you....you gotta go up top more narrow..."kind-a" will lock you up.

either "kind-uh" or "kin-erh"...sing the "erh" but from a mouth set up of an "oo." Give them a try. Here's an acapella track.

http://www.iafd.com/title.rme/title=Femme+Fatale/year=1984/femme-fatale.htm

 

​WHAT?  :o...... THEY TUNE DOWN A HALF STEP FOR THAT  :blink:..   Those cheaters :angry:    Just playin'  :rolleyes:

I suppose I could dedicate one guitar for singing that song. They could be singing a half step interval between "Simple" and "Kind". I will have to check into that.Playing guitar in standard tune The chords are C, G, Am ..... That would put Simple at G4 and Kind of would be A4 to G4.   If that really is a G#4 and they are doing a bluesy slide up a half step that would explain why I sound so messed up.

    Thanks for the tip....either "Kind- uh" or "Kind-erh"

   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

I watched Roberts video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Iep8ySElZ0 this one i am practicing on now the onset quack and release. Its really helpful. I knew i shouted and i was pulling chest voice too high so it sounded awful. I am practicing my head voice now it still sound too quiet and too airy but im not giving up. The only problem i have with the sirens is that my mental picture is that the frequency goes high and low instead of picture it near and far. But is falsetto the only way i can go into head voice?

 

​Simpan... regarding the auditory imagery of how to perceive frequency... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the blast you are hearing on the A4 or g#4 is not a blast but the right resonation 

" People have different ways of processing information, plus the fact of different sources of information have their own means of expressing that information.

You will not truly know something until you experience it."  From Another post I made on a different thread.

   Any tips for experiencing that right resonation? :)

 

 

    Great Video Robert, you posted your video while I was writing. You have answered my .question and a few others

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am practising the onsets now and one i really liked was the quack and release onset. I now its hard work and all. But im getting there. This is me starting the onset.

 

​Nice twang bro, I wish I could get that kind of resonance into my head voice.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That doesn't mean that it was easy to figure it out. For every rare talent that figured this out by the school of hard knocks, how many threw in the towel and never figured it out and gave up?  The argument is that with some basic understanding about how the voice works, some techniques and good training content, you don't have to rely on chance, luck, and what you were born with entirely... I can learn to play guitar pretty damn good if I just hack on the thing and go with my instincts long and hard enough.. but what if I took some lessons from a local pro to show me how to hold the neck, kicked my butt practice scales, practice with a metronome, understand the modal scales, etc... ? 

That some people clearly did not have today's contemporary vocal training programs to work from is not an argument for any lack of validity.  I remind you that vocal training programs such as mine, Kevin's, Ken's, etc... is a relatively new phenomenon in the art form. And I have to say, very welcome... nothing wrong with educating yourself and learning how to do things... working smart, not just hard. 

​Yeah I have to agree here.  Of course we hear about all the rare talents that pushed through self-taught and grew to be some of the best voices of all time.  However, what we don't hear is all the young guys who destroyed their voices approaching singing in the most unhealthy, unproductive way and ended up blowing their voices out before they were even in their 30s.  Well, I guess we do hear about one of them... Robert Plant. :D  

I agree 120% with what Robert said. For 5 months I had a teacher who all we did was sing songs. He wasn't a big believer in exercises and kind of just hoped that we would figure things out. Never happened. I really did improve, but considering where I started it's not really saying much. I didn't learn much about support, resonance, etc etc that one would learn through a program and a quality vocal coach. I finally decided to get a quality vocal coach and program and haven't looked back. 

@Jeremy, even some of the best voices have suffered vocal damage many times over: Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Adele, Steve PerryPerryand like you mentioned Robert Plant among other singers. Now I know touring can be incredibly demanding and their schedules were probably very hectic but being the best doesn't mean that one shouldn't invest in quality training. Even visiting with a high caliber vocal coach a few times a year could save vocalists from life long damage to their voices. Talent can take you to many great places, but it can't always keep you there. Just my 2 cents. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

​Nice twang bro, I wish I could get that kind of resonance into my head voice.  

​Jeremy, nice effort... but I want to clarify for you and any viewers... this is NOT a TVS Q&R onset... if that is what you are trying to do, its not correct. That doesn't mean that you are not getting some benefit from this... namely, compressing you vocal folds and getting some strength and coordination from that, but... there is a way to do this sort of thing a lot more accurately and efficiently. You really shouldn't just "hack" through your onsets or use your "best guess" for it... really know what your doing and why when it comes to onsets.

Do you have "The Four Pillars of Singing"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jeremy, even some of the best voices have suffered vocal damage many times over: Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Adele, Steve PerryPerryand like you mentioned Robert Plant among other singers. Now I know touring can be incredibly demanding and their schedules were probably very hectic but being the best doesn't mean that one shouldn't invest in quality training. Even visiting with a high caliber vocal coach a few times a year could save vocalists from life long damage to their voices. Talent can take you to many great places, but it can't always keep you there. Just my 2 cents. 

​I completely agree with you as well.  Some guys like to power through it and go the 100% self-taught method because they feel it will make singing too formulaic, or they might lose some of their inherit vocal characteristics by getting proper technique coaching.  However, I'm in the boat that says that is mostly bullshit because the "inherit vocal characteristics" I was self-teaching myself would have destroyed my voice if I didn't start getting some tips and researching the voice to some level.  Some guys get lucky and can be completely self-taught and have an amazing output of music but it seems it comes at the cost that not everyone who goes the self-taught route: 1. makes it to a professional level at all. 2. know how to maintain and take care of the voice they've developed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Hmm, are you talking to me?  It was Simpan24 who attempted the quack and release onset.  I don't claim to know how to properly execute it nor would I try without actually consulting The Four Pillars program.  I was just quoting his clip.

​Sorry Jeremy, I was confused... I have a million things flying at me right now... 

How do you like the new forum interface?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...