Advice on the Best at-home Voice Training Method?

[avagaudet]

Hey There all you Modern Vocalists!!

I have questions about all those voice training programs that are out there, and I could really use some advice!

I have been looking for a more structured practice method to use at home to change up my practice routine and keep my chops up.... I've seen a lot of good reviews for "Singing Success" and "Sing with Freedom" they both look good, but I'm not sure it they are worth the money?

Anyone out there use either one of these? What do you think?

Does anyone have another suggestion for a DIFFERENT CD/DVD/Program that is good??

I'm basically looking for a new, structured, practice method that will strengthen my upper register, expand my range, etc....

ANY advice or reviews would be great! THANKS GUYS!!!!

AVA*

www.avagaudet.com

http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profile/AvaGaudet

[Marcus]

It depends a bit on what you're after, concerning style and so on.

I think everybody should at least read through Complete Vocal Technique by Cathrine Sadolin, it's a very good read about the voice. I haven't been doing the excercises overly much, but I learned a lot from it when it come to overall knowledge of the voice and how it works. And when I have more time for technique practice by the end of this year I will buy the updated version and start practicing more with effects like distorsion and rasp.

I've been using James Lugo's program Vocal Asylum (cd/dvd program), wich is basically an excercies program to sing along to. It focuses a lot on rock technique and made me develop my upper register (I've added about an octave to "full voice"). I warmly recommend it if you are into rock or metal singing.

Singing Success is fairly good, I've been doing some excercises from it as well. It's more of a pop type of voice you will develop with this program. If this is what you are going for, then by all means give it a try. It's basically the same thing as Singin For The Stars (Speach Level Singing) by Seth Riggs, and I know the later one have a lot of the excercises on youtube. So you could check out those excercises as well, at least to get a picture of what approach this is.

Hope this helps!

[avagaudet]

Very Helpful, THANKS!!

I'm primarily a Pop singer, but I do a lot of Musical Theater and my heart is in R&B/Soul..... I would love a program that supports that stylistically as well as technically....

I'll def go check out youtube for those videos!

Any LADIES out there using any of these programs??

A*

[ronws]

The first book I read was back in late 1987. It was called "How to Sing Olympically" by Graham Hewitt. I had been inspired by the song "Sweet Child o Mine" by Guns and Roses. I wanted to expand my range and power. Boy, howdy, did I. But, unlike my inspiration from Axl Rose, I sought, and still seek, the cleanest tone I can manage.

TVS is originally marketed to vocal athletes, singers who want to sing hard rock and heavy metal with a large range. In fact, I would say it's not uncommon for a person singing in this program to have at least a 3 or 4 octave range by the time they have developed. While someone might say "how does hard rock and heavy metal fit into theater and pop?" Remember that Robert Lunte studied with the same instructor as did Geoff Tate of Queensryche. And Lunte can do a theater piece, such as the youtube posting of him doing "Gethsemane" from "Jesus Christ, Superstar." And, as for Geoff Tate, if a person doesn't think "Queen of the Ryche" wasn't theater, then they are missing out on a key understanding of that music. Watch Ronnie James Dio with the sound off. His moves on stage are operatic. From the stances, to the arm movements, accentuated by large and flowing sleeves, to show movement and emotion to even the nose-bleed seats in the back of the hall.

Brett Manning's own performance style is in some ways theatrical though it doesn't show so much in his lessons and tutorials.

Anyway, those are some ideas.

[kalapoka]

Singing Success will be very good for developing a pop/RNB voice. There are specific exercises towards the middle-to-end of the program which are geared towards the vocal stylings of RNB, like trills and blues runs etc.

Recommended.

[jonpall]

I recommend the CVT book, "Raise your voice II" by Jamie Vendera, "The rock 'n' roll singer's survival manual" by Mark Baxter and "Singing for the stars" by Seth Riggs.

[Douglas]

Hi avagaudet,

First I have to echo Marcus and say that the Complete Vocal Technique book by Cathrine Sadolin is amazing, and I highly recommend it however, it is actually a little short on exercises (but you should get it anyway because it is great! ).

For exercises, I found Brett Manning's Singing Success and Mastering Mix to be very helpful, but the physiology and anatomy are a bit off. They are very focused on "mixed voice" and on pop but they are not cheap. I would say, for most, although I liked them, they are not a very good value because of the price. If you have the extra money though, they may be worth checking out. Also, if you are not just starting out Mastering Mix has nearly all the exercises that Singing Success has (it is even more expensive though).

I hope this helps some.

Doug

[tubagod]

"raise your voice" is the only one i still use and ive tried all of these.

[Robert Lunte]

You may be interested in checking out my system, The Four Pillars of Singing... it has sold in 90 countries around the world and focuses on range extension, extreme singing techniques and extensive head voice development.

It offers 22 DVD video tutorials of myself and other top students demonstrating the vocal workouts, something you dont get from other systems, where you never or rarely hear the instructor actually sing. So its not just a book and an audio CD, you get DVD content as well. Another thing that is great about TVS, if I do say so myself, is these vocal workouts and techniques are not the same old stuff you have seen before.

Here is my web site: www.TheVocalistStudio.com

You may be interested in downloading this document to see what other students have said.

https://thevocaliststudio.box.net/shared/static/kk091v24y0.pdf

Here is my bio:

https://thevocaliststudio.box.net/shared/static/uo5rlu09i0.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBpydHcaXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va4eB00J6eQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNfpeHE6Wls

CVT is good and I think James Lugo is helpful as well. I do not recommend SingingSuccess or SLS products. There are concepts in those systems that are obsolete and can steer you down a path of frustration.

[VideoHere]

i recently purchased a downloadable lesson from sss and it has somewhat helpful. but i have to say customer service was sub par. forgetting to send a file after payment all the way up to no reply to questions.

[ronws]

Thanks for posting those, Robert. The bio interview was neat. But I really enjoyed the second one with the 16 hour intensive. I could get what you were driving at. Making essentially what is a lighter tone with more twang but it sounds stronger than the belt the student was doing. The difference was night and day. With your twang, you were able to bring in distortion that he was almost able to do. Anyway, way cool.

Makes me want to win the Texas Lotto so that I can retire from electrical work and visit Seattle any ole' time I feel like it.

[markgrubb@gmail.com]

AVA

I have studied SLS / SS, Bel Canto, and at The Vocalist Studio. SLS is heavy on the marketing. Many elements of SLS is taken from Bel Canto (classical / legit), thus many elements are 'legit'. My experience with SLS included singing with a lot of tension in my extrinsic muscles as I tried to maintain a neutral larynx. Bel Canto was drastically more productive for me, but the school I studied at followed a Classical training or academic training mentality of not only does it take four years for a voice to mature, but the timeline for seeing improvement is one that extended the length of time my then long time acquaintence Robert Lunte told me it should take.

Originally I put off training with Robert because his rates then were much higher and I reasoned it must be better to train with a teacher in person than over Skype. However, in confiding to Robert my frustration with the amount of money I had invested and the years I had studied and practiced, he took a step forward and as a friend encouraged me that I deserved better. Robert offers the TVS pedagogy and believes in it (he studied much of it under Maestro David Kyle and has developed it himself and with amazing TVS Pillars over many years). I made a deal with Robert that I would try The Four Pillars of Singing with two conditions 1) I would see significant / drastic improvement in 90 days and 2) he offered the lessons at the rate he offers today (which is much cheaper than it should be). My end of the deal was I must practice.

After training with Rob I sing over 5 octaves with NO strain, and I can sing over this full range on demand and without getting tired for hours. I sing in full voice (not a falsetto timbre in both head register and whistle / flageolet register). My singing future / the future of my voice was sincerely changed drastically in the first two skype lessons I took with Robert.

There are other great pedagogues and teachers. I am happy to share with you some names and products. I own a significant majority of the vocal CDs / DVDs / systems from all around the world. There are a couple of these systems (and I mean only a few) that I believe are very successful at training the voice properly and quickly (you are training muscles, it does require time and proper practice / practicing properly) and teachers I know that they are knowledgable and caring about your voice and you as an individual.

A few words from Maestro Kyle, "Good speech is half sung, but good singing is not half spoken" "Visualize you are already what you want to be Act as if you are that and you will become it". Maestro Kyle taught 100s of the NY Met voices. My experience and the following quote suggest to me that singing and speaking are VERY different. If you do get to know Rob then you will know someone that not only trains your voice, but gives you the tools to translate / bridge the gap between singing scales and singing / performing on a stage.

Consider voices like Randy Loran and Jason Lucas / Hasson Chopper. These are TVS Pillars. Make sure the school you train at is producing artists that can execute what the school teaches. Lastly, a lesson I learned from spending thousands of dollars on systems, equipment, lessons is Skype lessons with a great teacher are lightyears ahead of taking lessons in person with a mediocre to poor teacher. There are no substitutes for proper instruction and practice. I hope there is something in this post helpful to you. God bless!

[markgrubb@gmail.com]

I haven't been on the forums for a long time, so I am not sure how much Robert has shared about Pillars 2.0. Thus, I am not sure how much liberty I have to share details. I can tell you this is a game changer. It is easier and cheaper to imitate than to innovate. TVS brought video tutorials to vocal training then you started seeing it in other systems. Pillars 2.0 again brings innovation you don't see in other systems. The Four Pillars of Singing by Robert Lunte ...

To finish an earlier thought I didn't write out, I want to recognize Robert for empowering my voice and he is a true friend for life.

[Kevin Lam@Enthuse]

To add something, not only Robert is a true friend of life and a amazing vocal coach.

He is someone who live with passion. If you read his posts on forum and watch his video clips over these 3-4 years, you will find he always want "renovation".

In short, he always makes improvements no matter on teaching, inventing new singing methods, and even on speaking skills and body language, HD DVD in the future pilliar 2.0 etc!

[markgrubb@gmail.com]

In response to another post in this thread, trills and runs are stylistic embellishments that are INDEPENDENT of the pedagogy / system of teaching technique.

Since I tend to flame SLS / SS in attempt to save others from repeating my experiences with it, I would like to clarify this is no reflection on Brett Manning. Every interaction I have had with Brett has reinforced to me he is an honest and talented man.

[Robert Lunte]

Hey.. thanks Mark... Yes, Pillars 2.0 is going to be great. I am flat out.. putting every ounce of my talent and sweat equity in it. I am trying to make it so completely full of value and features that it will be amazing. I am going the extra push on all fronts on this... and its keeping working 7 days a week...

... thanks for the kind comments fellas... I truly am driven by my passion to innovate and help people continue to succeed. Pillars 2.0 is a product that is going to offer content and features that have never been done before. I want to fill in the gaps, I want to do what hasnt been tried before. I want to turn B&W TV into color... I dont know if I will succeed in it being this innovative, but I am trying... regardless, it will be super cool...

BTW... those of you that are interested in training TVS techniques and are considering to purchase "The Four Pillars of Singing", if you purchase the 1.5 version today to get started, Ill send you version 2.0 for a special deal. You dont have to purchase 2.0 fully, it will be an "update" investment and it will be very reaonsable. i want you to have it, so Ill make it very easy to get into.

[ronws]

And I would echo others and reiterate my own statements. It's great that you can make money doing this, Robert. Bills have to be paid and I know you pay attention to marketing, such as coming up with the name Four Pillars. People remember a short phrase easier and longer than something complicated.

But, at least for me, what really "sells" the product is you. For a number of reasons. The students you have, as shown in the intensive, are practicing on a stage with a hot mic. Not in a 10' by 10' practice room with a casio keyboard for tones. The program is geared to knowing your stuff and translating to an audience. The end goal is to be a phenomenal vocalist - IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE. Anyone can record, as is evidenced by some popular recording artists who sounded like crap in person but seemed great on the album. Thanks to magical sound and recording engineers and cutting edge technology. But do it in a 200 seat club with people going back and forth and a barback clinking bottles in a crate and a misplaced monitor and a drummer who seems dead-seat on breaking through his drumheads on every song and a guitarist who is driven to prove that he is the next Yngwie Malmsteen. Or a club pa that intermittently drops one channel. Making you want to hire your own FOH engineer.

The passion in your posts and the amount of info that you present without charge is but a testament to your desire to teach. And you walk the walk. You don't just teach singing exercises and "tricks." You actually get up and do it. And every performance you have taped or filmed is spot on, no excuses, flawless. Even after a 20-hour training day. The old saying is that the proof is in the pudding. Well, pudding, indeed.

The proof is also in the students you have instructed. I had been a teacher, once, teaching electrical work. And my real report card is what my students can do and what they remember. One of my proudest moments was a student who motivated himself to go around the shop and find obstructions to pipe around.

[briesmith]

I find practising - even the thought of it - at home very difficult to manage. I've no idea what I'm achieving when I sing; am I actually changing anything by my practice?

I am not a keyboard player, can pick my round a guitar or on-line keyboard but that's it.

I am totally impressed by the people on this forum who have done home practice and benefited from it.

All I can ask is,"How did you do it?"

"I would say it's not uncommon for a person singing in this program to have at least a 3 or 4 octave range by the time they have developed. ", "After training with Rob I sing over 5 octaves with NO strain" - is this for real? (No offence intended by the question; I'm just blown away by the thought of it. My "standard" baritone G2 to C5 seems ludicrous/pathetic by comparison.)

[jonpall]

ronws, do you have the Four Pillars?

[ronws]

ronws, do you have the Four Pillars?

No, but I would like to get it some day, just not today. Yesterday evening, I paid the car payment and an overdue electrical bill that was larger than the car payment, and that was only the overdue part, to avoid disconnection. I still have to pay insurance and water this week. And I don't make much money and the state that grants my license makes it harder to do side work.

Brie, I don't practice every day. The last few days, I haven't done much of anything. Allergies are causing sinus drainage, at least in the morning, using the car heater in the mornings dries me out. So, I am giving it a rest.

To me, practice is not just scales, whether it be guitar or voice. Techniques and concepts, however, that's what I learn.

[keoladonaghy]

briesmith: I'm another who uses the Four Pillars, and previous used Singing Success. In both cases, I supplemented the program with Skype lessons - Jesse Nemitz for SS and Robert for T4P. There is no way I would have made the progress I did without the personalized feedback they provided. I need their ears to tell me what I'm doing right and wrong, otherwise I would have been reinforcing bad habits. Sounds like you could benefit from it as well.

To echo rownws: I don't practice every day, and it was difficult for me to discipline myself NOT to practice every day and allow my voice time to recouperate. I often found that I made leaps in improvement after having four or five days of solid practice, then taking a few days off. Unfortunately I'm at a crucial time in writing up my Ph.d. dissertation and have had to suspend my lessons to focus on that. But once it's done, I'll be back at it.

[Robert Lunte]

And I would echo others and reiterate my own statements. It's great that you can make money doing this, Robert. Bills have to be paid and I know you pay attention to marketing, such as coming up with the name Four Pillars. People remember a short phrase easier and longer than something complicated.

But, at least for me, what really "sells" the product is you. For a number of reasons. The students you have, as shown in the intensive, are practicing on a stage with a hot mic. Not in a 10' by 10' practice room with a casio keyboard for tones. The program is geared to knowing your stuff and translating to an audience. The end goal is to be a phenomenal vocalist - IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE. Anyone can record, as is evidenced by some popular recording artists who sounded like crap in person but seemed great on the album. Thanks to magical sound and recording engineers and cutting edge technology. But do it in a 200 seat club with people going back and forth and a barback clinking bottles in a crate and a misplaced monitor and a drummer who seems dead-seat on breaking through his drumheads on every song and a guitarist who is driven to prove that he is the next Yngwie Malmsteen. Or a club pa that intermittently drops one channel. Making you want to hire your own FOH engineer.

The passion in your posts and the amount of info that you present without charge is but a testament to your desire to teach. And you walk the walk. You don't just teach singing exercises and "tricks." You actually get up and do it. And every performance you have taped or filmed is spot on, no excuses, flawless. Even after a 20-hour training day. The old saying is that the proof is in the pudding. Well, pudding, indeed.

The proof is also in the students you have instructed. I had been a teacher, once, teaching electrical work. And my real report card is what my students can do and what they remember. One of my proudest moments was a student who motivated himself to go around the shop and find obstructions to pipe around.

Wow, thats nice Ron... thanks for recognizing my work. Its true, I really love doing this and helping people... its also just .... its what Im good at... I suck at other things... I worked for 12 years as an IT sales guy... ran my own consulting business, most people dont know that... I am very well versed in wireless software and systems integration practices... but, I was only have ok with it and no matter how hard i tried, I couldnt get any traction in that "other life"... its only when I dipped my toe into teaching people how to sing that things begin to work in my life. I now know, this is what Im suppose to be doing. I didnt seek to do this... it found me and pulled me in. Also note, when everyone else is sleeping in on a Saturday morning, Im getting up at 5:00 am and riding my bike into the studio for 10 straight hours of this stuff... I work on Sundays too, pretty much, unless there is a woman to drag me away from it... Im also a lot about building teams, I try to share it with others and empower others... but anyways... thanks for the nice comments....

I will tell you this, its going to continue...

[ronws]

They say, Robert, when you love what you do, it doesn't seem like work. Gene Simmons said as much. He claims to have never taken a vacation. And, in his own words, it doesn't seem like work to him because he loves what he does. To him, every day seems like vacation.

I, too, like teaching and I enjoyed teaching electrical work. It's too bad that couldn't last. I've been blessed to have a temp assignment last a while, which has allowed me to catch up on some bills and take care of others coming up. The funny thing is, I make more per hour working in the field than I did teaching. And the teaching was a salary job. Not that I minded but it was common to work 50 to 55 hours a week. But there is something about seeing another person finally catch the concept you are presenting to them.

It's interesting how we wind up where we are. As a kid, I liked guitar and singing. So, my granparents gave me books on electrical theory and electronics and I was supposed to be an engineer. And the few times I could make it to college, that was my major.

In all honesty, I tried electrical work as something of a lark. I was 19 and one job paid as good as the next. And found that I preferred it to all the other jobs one can get without a degree. I thought it was ironic and funny that I used to get in trouble for playing in the dirt and now, I could get paid for it. And, for the longest time, I was just a helper, building experience and knowledge at every turn. Then, finally, I started working toward getting a license. And after a couple of decades of doing it, I had a master license, which is not doing me much good, now, but there it is. Up until the last few years, there was an abundance of work. Texas is not a union state and you didn't really need one because if things didn't work out at the company you were at, you could literally go down the road and find another job.

Would it be way cool to be a mega-star with one's album plastered everywhere? Sure. But you have to finance that somehow. "Blue Collar Man" by Styx was Tommy Shaw's homage to his family, especially his father, who worked more than one job to finance the equipment, etcetera, of when Shaw was first starting out.

[markgrubb@gmail.com]

I find practising - even the thought of it - at home very difficult to manage. I've no idea what I'm achieving when I sing; am I actually changing anything by my practice?

I am not a keyboard player, can pick my round a guitar or on-line keyboard but that's it.

I am totally impressed by the people on this forum who have done home practice and benefited from it.

All I can ask is,"How did you do it?"

"I would say it's not uncommon for a person singing in this program to have at least a 3 or 4 octave range by the time they have developed. ", "After training with Rob I sing over 5 octaves with NO strain" - is this for real? (No offence intended by the question; I'm just blown away by the thought of it. My "standard" baritone G2 to C5 seems ludicrous/pathetic by comparison.)

I practice to tracks - piano, guitar. I don't play while I am practicing. TVS and many other systems include CDs, mp3s, ... tracks to practice with.

Prior to training with Rob my range was close to four octaves. Much of the top of those four octaves were not easily accessible and were not usable. Rob taught me to bridge from chest to head register without strain. The placement of resonance is different and it opened up the bridge, my head register. Next I started banging on the passaggio between head and flageolet register. In about a sentence of explanation Rob guided me through bridging into flageolet.

I owned the 1.0 or 1.5 release of The Four Pillars of Singing (then it was The Four Pillars of Screaming); however, I wasn't using it because I was studying at a Bel Canto studio and SLS prior to that. Rob has been a friend for some time, and in a conversation he encouraged me to study with him. Training with Rob through Skype made all the difference. The vocalizes in Pillars are effective in training a healthy phonation that is very powerful (fully voiced). I admit, I question if I would have figured out some of the issues I was experiencing, should I have trained with Pillars and NOT invested in lessons with Rob. That is a long answer to your short question, YES five octaves that are usable and NO STRAIN, anytime day or night. (you want to be impressed with freakish range, watch Randy Loran's TVS videos on youtube or get Pillars).