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Simpan24
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Hello

I found out i have absolutley no singing voice or quality in my voice. I even listened back to when i was singing children of the damned by iron maiden and i could tell this sounds horrible. So for someone who cannot sing anything. Is it something you are just born with or something you can learn?

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No, it is not.

I have a three page essay on this in my training program, "The Four Pillars of Singing" in the "Myth Busting" section of my book.. it is titled, "Some People Are Born To Sing, Others Are Not"... click this link to see the Table of Contents and view the Myth Busting topics.

http://tinyurl.com/4PillarsTableofContents

It is true that some people have what we would call, more "gift" then others perhaps... but even this is subjective to interpretation. But for the sake of conversation here... the person that has more "gift" vs the normal student like myself... and most of us that might have to work a bit harder for the same results only has a small margin of advantage. The advantage that the "gifted" person has vs the normal student has (.. and that accounts for about 85% of all students... meaning, 85% of all people have the ability to learn to sing and can get better)... , relatively small. It is a bit like the fable, "the tortoise and the hare". The hare walks into the student and understands that they have some "gift" for singing and what that typically does is makes them more cocky and they don't practice... they just rely on what they got and sooner or later, they burn out and their voices have problems... the tortoise, is the guy that trains and practices and doesn't get arrogant about singing and eventually, matches and surpasses the "hare" and has a long career in singing.

So that is the difference... but as far as there being a flat out, absolute statement that, some people are born with it and others are not... that is just not true. 

I will preface all of this by saying, ... there are some people that really can't sing, at least not well enough to ever please an audience. And that is just the tough love truth of the matter... however, this kind of person is very rare! I have had students like this, but it is extremely rare. Often times it is due to physical impediments related to the embouchure, tongue, vocal tract, neural linguistic handicaps that prevent them from ever matching pitch, etc... this is about 1 out of 10 people. 2 or 3 out of ten are "gifted" or have something going for them that makes singing respond well... and about 70% of the rest of us... just need to take lessons and train and sing a lot... and you'll get better then the "gifted" ones.

You see, we talked about this before... if we safely assume that you are in the 70% Simpan... then what you need to do is practice and train. But since you have decided not to do that, then you won't really get better. I have heard you sing... it has nothing to do with what you were born with or not born with... in your case, I believe it simply has everything to do with... if you are willing to do the work and train/practice... 

So to be questioning whether or not you were "born with it or not"... is barking up the wrong tree. THAT, is not your problem. You are not the 1 out of 10 that can't... I think you are in the larger 70% group that can, if you are willing to commit to training. 

:wink:

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It can be learned with practice, just like playing hockey, soccer, chess, cooking, performing, or anything else.

I highly doubt Geoff Tate, Bruce Dickinson, Michael Kiske, Andre Matos, etc etc. came out of the womb twanging E5s.

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      Singing can be learned or trained.   We all can have problems in different areas.  Some have problems with pitch and some have problems with tone. Both can be addressed by training,

  I would think that most new untrained singers would have trouble sounding good to anything by Iron Maiden.

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No, they didn't... they practiced, trained and for sure... sang every day... sang in bands and got stronger and figured stuff out... eventually, they fell into some things that worked like twang, distortion, modifying narrowed vowels, using the "snile" perhaps,... other things... but for sure, sang over and over again with good techniques and approaches to using the voice... and per my post above, were either in the "gifted" % or in the 70% group... and worked hard, were committed to getting better and all that. 

None of those people are afraid to work, that is one thing I definitely assure you... they worked hard, paid dues, tried to get better. They didn't just sit back and wait for something to happen or worry about whether or not they could or they couldn't or if they were born with it or not... they just set their sites on their goals and started going for it. 

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      Singing can be learned or trained.   We all can have problems in different areas.  Some have problems with pitch and some have problems with tone. Both can be addressed by training,

  I would think that most new untrained singers would have trouble sounding good to anything by Iron Maiden.

​Iron Maiden?... Requires a LOT of training, experience and belt musculature... if you are not already singing and training, forget hoping to sing Iron Maiden and making it sound decent.

 

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If singing is something you're born with, most of us wouldn't be on the forum... we'd just have given up, and those that are born with it wouldn't need a forum to begin with.

It'd be really cool for some of the more experienced members to post clips of their singing across multiple years, showing some sort of before/after effect (before I started training vs now). I'm sure the after versions would be amazing, but I wonder how bad most of them sounded previously :P

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People mistake art of singing and singing technique. There are people that "feel thebmusic" in a different way and thats what diferentiate artists from mere singers. But even those "artsy" people have to learn techniques and whatnot.

 

I honestly think people can learn how to sing good and expand their range and tonak quality just by singing and mimicing alot. Having a good coach or proggramm just speeds up the proccess

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I am practising the onset lift and hold back gonna take a while to get it down. Im not into becoming a proffessional singer. When i often sing Iron Maiden i sing the paul dianno stuff.

​Ok, thats cool! The Paul Deanno stuff is cool... I especially like the "get down" scream at the end of the song, "Iron Maiden" and the opening screams to "Killers". 

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If singing is something you're born with, most of us wouldn't be on the forum... we'd just have given up, and those that are born with it wouldn't need a forum to begin with.

It'd be really cool for some of the more experienced members to post clips of their singing across multiple years, showing some sort of before/after effect (before I started training vs now). I'm sure the after versions would be amazing, but I wonder how bad most of them sounded previously :P

​I did that with a "Silent Lucidity" topic post... it is almost a 20 year difference.

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Singing is fueled by your mind, your confidence in yourself and your willingness to accept an "I currently stink" stage or stages along the way.

Just like getting better at a sport.

You cannot skip the "I currently stink" stage.

 

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How many newborns that sing good do you know?

 

Next question?

​one that I know of.....My Niece.....I did not hear the normal Coo's and Daa...Daaa's   ......   I do not know what she was singing but it was always melodic and on pitch.

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The problem is, all the singers you might think were born with it were singing for years and years before you heard of them.

And only you, Timpan, has decided that your singing is no good. Have you actually been to a coach or had someone make this judgement of you after some time?

I mean, specific details, who, where, when, what was said. Otherwise, you are simply making assumptions that are not helping you.

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I am under the believe that you are born with the passion to be a singer but often not the voice straight away, the voice takes practice, but you have to be born with the desire. 

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I am under the believe that you are born with the passion to be a singer but often not the voice straight away, the voice takes practice, but you have to be born with the desire. 

Well, even the desire part is questionable. I only started becoming gradually interested in singing in my late teens...

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I highly doubt Geoff Tate, Bruce Dickinson, Michael Kiske, Andre Matos, etc etc. came out of the womb twanging E5s.

Actually that's exatly what babies do...

​Haha, yeah was thinking the same. Twanging E5s is very easy for babies. More like: They didn't come out of puperty twangin E5's :P

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     You have to get past all of that Preteen Programing. "Hey! You kids, Stop being so loud"........."There is no need for screaming unless someone is hurt"

 "It hurts my ears when you do that"............"You'er Giving me a headache".................

     Been there....Done that.........Still getting over it........

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I am under the believe that you are born with the passion to be a singer but often not the voice straight away, the voice takes practice, but you have to be born with the desire. 

Well, even the desire part is questionable. I only started becoming gradually interested in singing in my late teens...

​you always had the the desire but you just slowly discovered it later in life...... 

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I am under the believe that you are born with the passion to be a singer but often not the voice straight away, the voice takes practice, but you have to be born with the desire. 

Well, even the desire part is questionable. I only started becoming gradually interested in singing in my late teens...

​you always had the the desire but you just slowly discovered it later in life...... 

​Now that's being philosophical :)

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I highly doubt Geoff Tate, Bruce Dickinson, Michael Kiske, Andre Matos, etc etc. came out of the womb twanging E5s.

Actually that's exatly what babies do...

​Agreed, "Sexy Beast". My one year old grandson can hit those E5's and MORE. Along with one heck of a "whistle voice" as well. I try to mimic him and it nearly tears my "folds apart". BUT, I'd be willing to bet a steak dinner that it will all change as he ages......

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I highly doubt Geoff Tate, Bruce Dickinson, Michael Kiske, Andre Matos, etc etc. came out of the womb twanging E5s.

Actually that's exatly what babies do...

Yes, and they're very good at it. :)  I meant that the above mentioned vocalists weren't "born" with their talent. They almost definitely had to practice and train to sing in the fifth octave. 

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