Jump to content

Myles Kennedy - His Technique

Rate this topic


Elvis

Recommended Posts

  • Administrator

people are nuts on YouTube. No where else would you find such monster singers such as Arnell Pineda of 'Journey' and Kelly Hanson of 'Foreigner' so harshly criticised and torn apart.

Yes. If you want to see the worst of humanity... or at least 2nd worst to ISIS... go to YouTube and read some of the comments I DON'T approve some day... about one out of 10 people is nothing but a mean, bitter, nasty individual that is not giving their opinion... they are just making a post to be mean and insulting. I don't approve them. These kinds of posts are not published with me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

What a nice discussion about Myles Kennedy we're having. :D

    Myles brought up the Bel Canto thing.....Blame him.  ;)   Whatever method he is using it works......And it is good to actually hear a singer say that he works for his sound and has had lessons.....

You know... that is a really good point and there is something we can all compliment Myles on, in addition to his singing. He steps up on camera, and does the best he can to answer some fan mail, with is thoughtful.. but he also is not afraid to admit he has had some voice lessons. He is not one of these people that likes to pretend to their fans that they never had any voice lessons and its all just what they were born with. Myles doesn't play that game and I have to say, I respect him for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Bel Canto is NOT a method or technique (regardless of what every current classical coach says), it is a style of singing. "Bel Canto" loosely translated means "beautiful singing". Classical teaching methods (mostly open throat, appoggio and legato) are what produce Bel Canto singing. Like "Speech Level Singing", the word "Bel Canto" has become a buzzword in the teaching community in regards to technique because it's a way to label a way or method of teaching. But you will not find any books prior to 1950 that refer to "Bel Canto" as a method or pedagogy.

Many terms in vocal training have been twisted over the years into either very different from their original meaning or have become myth based on some small detail of fact. An example - The story of the death of "Mama" Cass Elliot was that she choked while eating a ham sandwich and died. Not true. She died of a heart attack in her sleep in a hotel in London. On the bedside table was an untouched ham sandwich and a can of Coca-Cola.

So it goes with Bel Canto.

Is there an echo in here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bel Canto is NOT a method or technique (regardless of what every current classical coach says), it is a style of singing. "Bel Canto" loosely translated means "beautiful singing". Classical teaching methods (mostly open throat, appoggio and legato) are what produce Bel Canto singing. Like "Speech Level Singing", the word "Bel Canto" has become a buzzword in the teaching community in regards to technique because it's a way to label a way or method of teaching. But you will not find any books prior to 1950 that refer to "Bel Canto" as a method or pedagogy.

Many terms in vocal training have been twisted over the years into either very different from their original meaning or have become myth based on some small detail of fact. An example - The story of the death of "Mama" Cass Elliot was that she choked while eating a ham sandwich and died. Not true. She died of a heart attack in her sleep in a hotel in London. On the bedside table was an untouched ham sandwich and a can of Coca-Cola.

So it goes with Bel Canto.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that in the context that Ken is putting it in his teaching, he is referring to the ideals behind what goes into Bel Canto and how it can be applied to his technique and modern day pop/rock singing. Heres my question to you guys; if the term "Bel Canto" simply means beautiful singing in Italian but there are techniques that go into it, wouldn't that make the word more than just an adjective? I don't know if calling it a technique is that far off the mark but if there are constants to what makes Bel Canto Bel Canto and it has the traits of classical singing as well, what is wrong with using the word "Bel Canto" and "Classical Singing" interchangeably? Man, semantics in vocal teaching sure is something :D

Not really. Classical methods (of which there are many) are designed to achieve "beautiful singing". An adjective. The word Bel Canto has become a noun over the years and it's not. It's a descriptive word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Bel Canto is NOT a method or technique (regardless of what every current classical coach says), it is a style of singing. "Bel Canto" loosely translated means "beautiful singing". Classical teaching methods (mostly open throat, appoggio and legato) are what produce Bel Canto singing. Like "Speech Level Singing", the word "Bel Canto" has become a buzzword in the teaching community in regards to technique because it's a way to label a way or method of teaching. But you will not find any books prior to 1950 that refer to "Bel Canto" as a method or pedagogy.

Many terms in vocal training have been twisted over the years into either very different from their original meaning or have become myth based on some small detail of fact. An example - The story of the death of "Mama" Cass Elliot was that she choked while eating a ham sandwich and died. Not true. She died of a heart attack in her sleep in a hotel in London. On the bedside table was an untouched ham sandwich and a can of Coca-Cola.

So it goes with Bel Canto.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that in the context that Ken is putting it in his teaching, he is referring to the ideals behind what goes into Bel Canto and how it can be applied to his technique and modern day pop/rock singing. Heres my question to you guys; if the term "Bel Canto" simply means beautiful singing in Italian but there are techniques that go into it, wouldn't that make the word more than just an adjective? I don't know if calling it a technique is that far off the mark but if there are constants to what makes Bel Canto Bel Canto and it has the traits of classical singing as well, what is wrong with using the word "Bel Canto" and "Classical Singing" interchangeably? Man, semantics in vocal teaching sure is something :D

"Bel Canto" is the same as "Screamo".... it is just a word to describe a style of singing... allegedly. As someone else pointed out and the wikipedia definition points out, its all very speculative. None of which even closely suggest that "Bel Canto" is a set of techniques. I find it ironic that we are debating Bel Canto in the context of Ken. Who was not born in the 18th century, is not a Classical singer, is not a Classically trained singer, does not sing Classical music and when he does sing, it is not "beautiful"... it is powerful and belty and all the merits that has to offer, ... but it is anything but "Bel Canto". If Ken calls it "Bel Canto" I have to respectfully say, he is confused or he is taking advantage of the "buzz" benefit that the term unfortunately has evolved to possess.

But it doesn't matter, this has become a tired and boorish topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Myles Kennedy's advice is good, but it is a pro singer's advice not a teacher so what he mentions is bound to be accurate, just the delivery may be off. I think when he looks away he's just thinking hard on how to take what he knows and try to teach it succinctly on the spot which is not easy! It's the teaching skill he doesn't know, not the information.

I think Ken does the tongue thing wrong for style...it doesn't sound right to me...but he also teaches the concave tongue which seems fine. And some singers do stick their tongue out, but just not the way Ken does.

Seth Riggs' approach (true SLS) is close to this elusive "bel canto" but it's just missing emphasis on some important things. Brett's teachings & MM & SS however are pretty far off the mark. Several of their professional clients have gotten vocal damage and I think that speaks for itself.

I have to disagree with the notion that singing all the time makes you better no matter what or how you train. Muscle memory does not know good from bad, everyone on this forum should know that...it's a very important concept to remember about singing. You have to teach your muscle memory what is correct by doing the correct way more often. There's also the "attractor states" concept which Rob could explain better than me but I'm pretty sure that it does not mean that if your technique is unhealthy, that when you build an attractor state for it suddenly becomes healthy. Almost positive it doesn't work that way.

There's no substitute for constantly looking to improve your singing. Even pros with no training are doing this, most of them. At the absolute least, they are working hard to maintain what they can already do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

people are nuts on YouTube. No where else would you find such monster singers such as Arnell Pineda of 'Journey' and Kelly Hanson of 'Foreigner' so harshly criticised and torn apart.

Yes. If you want to see the worst of humanity... or at least 2nd worst to ISIS... go to YouTube and read some of the comments I DON'T approve some day... about one out of 10 people is nothing but a mean, bitter, nasty individual that is not giving their opinion... they are just making a post to be mean and insulting. I don't approve them. These kinds of posts are not published with me. 

Its because of the anonymity of YouTube/Twitter etc. People will write the most horrible things they would never say to someone's face because they're cowards. You also have a certain subset of asperger types who can't let that one little mistake go and will relentlessly harp on it. Then you have the jealous who will cut you down because they can't do what you can do. In any event, you can't win with some people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

People will write the most horrible things they would never say to someone's face because they're cowards.

 

Absolutely... Cowards of the worst kind. These make it especially concerning to me... the only thing worst then someone that is mean, bitter, jealous and is out to insult you just to ruin your day... is someone that is mean, bitter, jealous and is out insult you to ruin your day ... that is also a gutless, hide behind your computer, Cheetoe eating, coward.  This is one thing that REALLy gets me puff'n.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

People will write the most horrible things they would never say to someone's face because they're cowards.

 

Absolutely... Cowards of the worst kind. These make it especially concerning to me... the only thing worst then someone that is mean, bitter, jealous and is out to insult you just to ruin your day... is someone that is mean, bitter, jealous and is out insult you to ruin your day ... that is also a gutless, hide behind your computer, Cheetoe eating, coward.  This is one thing that REALLy gets me puff'n.

 

Robert and Kevin,

I agree completely, BUT cowards is an understatement ! Even calling these "people" ANIMALS would be a compliment.... Please don't get me started. I'd use language I wouldn't normally use in a public "format". Freaking despicable B******S !!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and whats wrong with "bel canto" becoming a noun that means "a set of methods to achieve beautiful singing voice".

Sometimes i think you guys are being pretentious on purpose. If Darius Conrad (a member here) can call the technique that he uses, to sing opera or classical, bel canto then why cant we all call it that. i think everyone thinks of the same thing when bel canto is being brought up.

Also felipe mentioned that some of student using SS/MM did stuff worng or whatever, and that can be contributed to them not putting enough time or misinterpreting the course, which can happen with every course. I did some stuff very wrong until i got a lesson with Robert over skype.

Now that said I OWN TVS...and i perfectly happy with it...i am proggressing slowly but surely and im getting more confident day by day..

P.S. if anyone bothered to read what i wrote in the original post is the fact that i posted this in response to thread "can anyone learn to sing or are people born singing"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, it was stupid of me to comment on Brett Manning, at all, even as a viewer of his stuff from all the previous threads. I can't possibly know what I am talking about because I am not a teacher of singing or have a singing program to offer and market.

My apologies for talking as an ignorant redneck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Ive watched MM and to me its the same as TVS minus the science.

We'll have to disagree on this Elvis. It is just radically off base in my opinion.. Im not sure many people would agree with that.  SS/MM...

- has no book.

- has no demonstration videos that are consistent from the coach.

- has no guide files.

- has no notation of the workouts for people that read music.

- I don't believe there are any pentatonic blues or groove workouts in the system, are there?

- 25 of the 37 fundamental workouts in "4Pillars" were invented by me... I created them and the other 11 are from Maestro David Kyle... Does SS/MM use the same scales as "4Pillars"... of course not! Are a lot of the workouts carry overs from SLS... yes.

- Does SS/MM have slow, medium, and fast versions of vocal workouts? "4Pillars" does, which is a nice added feature, Im quite sure, SS/MM doesn't.

- Has no vocal modes (sorting out the physical and acoustic elements of singing... most importantly, a detailed explanation of the vowels, where they resonant and their sound colors).

- Has no discussion regarding onsets, does he?

- Does SS/MM cover anything regarding formants? F1/H2 (the belt formant tuning...), and how to use spectrum software as a tool when training? NO.

- Does he associate vowels with visual color so that students can better understand vowel modification and "see" the vowels... most definitely not, Im the only person that is doing that.

- Are there lyrics from his songs embedded into the book that doesn't exist that teaches students how to do vowel modification for lyrics... I don't think so, because there is no book. Is there any video on that idea? No.

- Has no "myth busting" section in a book that doesn't exist that helps students get their head on straight about certain ideas and myths about singing.

- Does anyone on the training program train with amplification, like with a mic in their hand? I suspect, no...

- Are all the vocal demonstration videos with people sitting down... or are they on their feet like they are ready to work out...? 

- Does the video production have multiple cameras and have nice cut-aways so people can see different angles? I don't think so...

- Are there any vocal distortion lessons or techniques taught in the SS/MM system? Not that I have ever seen or heard about?

- Do they cover "The Yarl", probably not.

- Are there detailed training routines, for every workout that explain exactly what you should do with tables and instructions?

- And to your point, is there any attempt to dig in on some basic vocal science?

- Is there an open forum like this one where you can freely go discuss other programs?... not sure its like this over there...

- How is the customer service over there? I score pretty high on that... did Brett give you a lesson for 40% off like I did... just to be nice? NO.

- Ken's ... pull chest first approach is all inside of "4Pillars" these days... the onsets for it and the vowels. One of my vowel modification formulas is PRECISELY the same formula that Ken teaches when training narrowed modifications. 

... I can go on... but I won't...

Im happy to hear that your "4Pillars" experience has been positive... but it sounds to me like there is content in the program that you are not aware of or are not really utilizing or understand. I would be happy to help you if you like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sorry to interrupt guys...

All the famous "bel canto" thing that anyone want to teach you is just good technique. The "bel canto" thing is really a business thing...

Soft palate in "high position", good posture, right support, right vowels modifications etc etc...

Those kind of teaching does have nothing to do with the style you are singing or what you want to achieve personally. It's just the "basis" of singing...

 

Myles or anybody can achieve high skills singing...

Just a matter of hours, years of practice and singing in live situation...

Again sorry to interrupt....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Elvis

Actually I have no idea of what people are talking about until I hear them doing. Be it belcanto, belting, or yodeling. And often the samples show that it´s wiser to not assume anything

 Im not talking about thisbforum only. I mean in general. Myles Keneddy doesent go to just any vocal coach. And if his vocal coach is using term belcanto then it must have some merit even if its only basis to good simging as joshual mentioned. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont consider workouts as a breakthrough. Its just scales done in a different way. Im talking about lessons. Configurations in larynx and technique in general. Not if the system has book or not. Book is a plus. I read pillars a few times.l and i learn smth new everytime. Its very beneficial. 

I encourage you Rob to watch MM and you will see that its very similar when it comes to technique. Sure they dont have fancy language like you do but its preety similar way of producing sound and the workflow of training and technique

     A side note..... The work outs, work flows, Scale choices, directions for how and why to use this onset or that onset...What order you work on things..IS the method and what constitutes a method or system.....Sure the goal of all singing is to create a free resonant, beautiful (subjective) sound without (too much) tension...... ( bel canto )......... A bunch of exercises without clear directions and goals that are set, do not constitute a Method or system.

    To have a CLEAR idea of what is expected and HOW to setup the different coordinations for a given exercise, what constitutes when an exercise falls apart and how to determine what aspect of the phonation is the problem.......Is a breakthrough......... especially for a singing technique program.

    You can do lip bubbles and Mum mum mums till you are blue in the face and get nowhere without knowing Why you are doing them and how to do them correctly.

   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
 

     A side note..... The work outs, work flows, Scale choices, directions for how and why to use this onset or that onset...What order you work on things..IS the method and what constitutes a method or system.....Sure the goal of all singing is to create a free resonant, beautiful (subjective) sound without (too much) tension...... ( bel canto )......... A bunch of exercises without clear directions and goals that are set, do not constitute a Method or system.

    To have a CLEAR idea of what is expected and HOW to setup the different coordinations for a given exercise, what constitutes when an exercise falls apart and how to determine what aspect of the phonation is the problem.......Is a breakthrough......... especially for a singing technique program.

    You can do lip bubbles and Mum mum mums till you are blue in the face and get nowhere without knowing Why you are doing them and how to do them correctly.

Precisely, spoken from someone that has experience in training and singing. I am so thankful that there are some more experienced people on here that get it... and those that have my program understand what it is that I have created that makes it unique.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks im fine with current system...been training and growing nicely...and the staley is a common blues lick that people are using for decades, just cuz you ran a filter and slowed the tempo down doesent mean you discovered something soo truly original.

The book and the video lessons are what counts to me, and not the workout scales. It doesent matter what scales you are using, but how you use them. i can do 10h session of staley with horrible technique and illl just get worse than i was...but if i use simple 1358 with GOOD technique ill get along much better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

@Elvis

Actually I have no idea of what people are talking about until I hear them doing. Be it belcanto, belting, or yodeling. And often the samples show that it´s wiser to not assume anything

 Im not talking about thisbforum only. I mean in general. Myles Keneddy doesent go to just any vocal coach. And if his vocal coach is using term belcanto then it must have some merit even if its only basis to good simging as joshual mentioned. 

 

Elvis... this was not Joshuas point...  He said...

 The "bel canto" thing is really a business thing...

This is exactly what we are trying to tell you... the use of the term "Bel Canto" is being used as a business/marketing buzz word because it has the effect that it is having on you...  you state...

And if his vocal coach is using term belcanto then it must have some merit

You think that because your hero Myles Kennedy is working with a voice coach that uses the term "Bel Canto", that has to mean that the use of the term has merit. No it doesn't... Your hero worship for Myles Kennedy is clouding your judgement and preventing you from being objective. Just because someone that allegedly taught Myles Kennedy a couple voice lessons (which is an assumption we are making that has not been proven...BTW), it doesn't mean it MUST have merit. 

Being famous, doesn't give you the power to change the facts. 

"Bel Canto" is not a noun. It is not a person, place or thing... it is a descriptive word who's meaning is nebulous and uncertain even by the most scholars individuals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
And so it happens once again.... What a shame !!! 
 
BUT, as I read through the daily posts, Robert continues to assist his students, and offers his expertise and assistance to any and all of our members. THAT is DEDICATION !!! 
 
Enough said....
 
And yes, I agree.... Topic CLOSED !!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
Guest
Further replies on this topic is temporarily disabled.
×
×
  • Create New...