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Elvis
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Hey guys!

Im just wondering does the following clip sounds like a full voice. I had a bit more time to practice lately (dont really have any time ussualy so im kinda not proggressing really good).

NOTE: I can make this sound alot better and less airy and less shaky, BUT i wanted to share this one as this is what happens most of the time.

Just wanted tips on what is wrong here. I know what to practice i have all that in Pillars but i dont know what im doing wrong!

https://app.box.com/s/syjjny1vpzth1rpl06rb0oh10pc8arwl

Thanks alot guys!!

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Definitely head voice and totally connected.  I don't how it feels to you but it sounds a little squeezed to me.  Maybe over-compressed?  It sounds like it would be fatiguing after a short time.  

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Definitely head voice and totally connected.  I don't how it feels to you but it sounds a little squeezed to me.  Maybe over-compressed?  It sounds like it would be fatiguing after a short time.  

Wow thanks...guess its going in the roght direction...yea a bit squezzed...deffinatelly not suited for singing alot like that..but the thing is im just getting able to sing anything above A4 so all of this is new to me...thats why im kinda still exploring...

The biggest thing i wanted is to know does it sound full and connected so i can start training higher notes on songs :)

 

Thanks GNO!!

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Oh!?

Elvis... I know I speak for the other vets here when I say,... keep going. Keep going... your passion for getting this figured out and commitment to study looks familiar to us... keep going... congrats on being the real deal and not just talking about it or expecting someone to "make" you sing better with a free secret tip... or what ever that delusion is all about...?  lol...

I just have to pause... do you guys hear that? Doesn't that sound great? Its the sound of ... people that are prepared to train and go to work... I love that sound. It sounds great in here now... 

Feedback:

Yes, that is definitely an adducted sound... you have closure. Your twanger is strong... but....

It is rather similar to the discussion we just had about vocal fold compression and the "vocal fold compression" spectrum graphic idea... Elvis, your squeezing the hell out of the twanger to get this "connectivity" and you don't have to do that. Granted, it is a step in the right direction, but what you need is more respiration... you have got get the respiration blowing through the glottis in balance with the compression and balance that out, (not easy...), but that is what you have to work on now... its like you have the twanger movement down... now you have to train to balance it with the respiration or bernoulli physics... which is a bit more challenging.

Also, dampen your larynx... your larynx is way jacked up... relax your larynx, blow more wind... 

I prescribe to thee:

W&R onsets on top to get your respiration in balance and get some bernoulli working for you.

Try training from and edging vowel to a curbing vowel through the passaggio for a while.. it will help lower your larynx and open the glottis a bit.

eh < > uh

And... you should work the TVS belting onsets, D&R and A&R onsets... 

You still need better sub-glottal balance and stronger anchoring of the larynx and adductors... 

:woohoo:

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I'm an amateur so listen to the pros but it definitely doesn't sound "falsetto" to me, sounds like it's on it's way but take it slow don't push into that sound if it's not comfortable for you.  Sounds like you have made a lot of progress in your head voice so be proud of what you got and don't be afraid to spend a lot of time singing the "boring" notes too heheh.  

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Nice work Elvis. Practicing and exploring your voice are essential to development. There is only a small percent of individuals who have the internal drive and dedication to becoming a truly GREAT singer. Passion and drive that meets with the solid ideas that Robert presents will yield you the fastest results. When I was younger and would have a lesson to work on from my teacher he would always start the next lesson after warming up a bit on tons of new material and I would be like "Hey, what about last weeks lesson?" He would laugh and say ok lets do it real quick because he knew I was like crazy O.C.D. and would do the lesson WAAAAAAAY more than the minimum he would ask of me lol. Elvis I love the tenacity and the passion brother, keep working.

 

"The Twanger is Strong in this one MmmHmm" Vocal Yoda

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It sounds connected to me, but still a bit squeezed or pulled. I remember the first time I hit a full sounding C5 it was kind of like that on accident. It felt unstable and very physical.

I've been finding as of late that increasing height in my soft palate/pharynx area and 'gripping' the note a bit less on top helps. I've started to be able to do distortion in head voice more where as half a year ago I would basically hit an A#4 with distortion and then would bridge into a windier config where distortion in head voice was very erratic.

The sensation as best as I can describe it is let the air flow up and high and over the tongue a bit more. For me it was just too much tension to use a vocal I might use in the lower half of my bridge, all the way up to the C5 without letting some compression go.

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i would say if you are going to go from eh to ee then try dialing back the intensity slightly you might find you can sneak the ee in easier and over time have the intensity eh has

Yes.

Lighten The Acoustic Mass when you sing through narrowed vowels, so the formant (resonation properties and physics of the whole thing...), can amplify and resonant properly...  Although Dan, I think the "ee" we are hearing in this sample was unintentional. Am I wrong Elvis?  Often times when student are squeezing the heck out of the twanger to make the head voice "connect", the voice cramps down into a violent "ee"-ish shrill like this... this is not a rounder, resonant , singing "ee" that we arguable are all trying to get after... but even if it was, the acoustic mass would still need to be lowered, accordingly, relevant to the frequency. 

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I've started to be able to do distortion in head voice more where as half a year ago I would basically hit an A#4 with distortion and then would bridge into a windier config where distortion in head voice was very erratic.

This sounds familiar to me... I think I have had a similar experience. This sensation has opened the doors to several techniques that I train and use when I sing actually... 

1). Glottal bleed... opening the glottis just a bit and letting some respiration through stops the squeezing, warms the sound, and... as a byproduct of that...

2). Is a path toward what we call at TVS "Overlay Uncompressed Distortion"... vocal distortion that is the result of noise in the vocal tract, produced by the ventricular folds moving... because of this added respiration that is engaged through glottal bleed technique... That being said, Killer try this idea on an "Uh" vowel or something kind of "uh-ish" and you will find that your larynx will drop a bit and it will increase the likelihood of a very cool distortion for your head voice... I am demonstrating this technique in this video.

 

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Wow thanks guys for help.

Yea the vowel mods were unintentional. I didnt really used any vowel formulas. But i am a big curber and i always start on Ah Eh and end up on Uh..

Ill try uploading a few more clips to demonstrate what i do also.

I sometimes start on a windy hey and slide up to the note. Not an octave siren but simple slide from bottom range, through falssetoish phonation to land on  note with adducted sound.

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Elvis, C5 is a note (at least it's been my experience) that should feel like you came down on top of it, rather than reaching and stretching for it. Also, get the palate up and get height.  Do some top down slides on "woo" and "ee" to go onto it and down over it. Try to get the feeling that the note is being descended on from a heady configuration. 

Addendum:  Also play around with placement, aim for the front then try placing it a litle more towards the back and get a sense of what happens. 

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Well done it's hard to get that high with that type of mass so good job. One thing i think you can make better is actualy getting into vowelmodifications, what your doing now is really no vowelmodification but instead our going Eh and at teh highrange you switch you Uhish vowel.

The thing that makes vowelmodifications strong is that you gradualy switch between them, so Eh will have a certain ammount of Uh in it. That way you get the properties of both vowels instead of just one, for instance Eh tends to splat abit in the higher range and uh tends to get to compressed at points, but learning the gradual climb between these two cancles this out in a way and singing becomes alot easyer.

Cheers hope this helps

 

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Eh will have a certain ammount of Uh in it. That way you get the properties of both vowels instead of just one, for instance Eh tends to splat abit in the higher range and uh tends to get to compressed at points,

Wow, that is really insightful ... you have to have good ears for vowels and formant tuning to recognize that... that is an advanced skill. Nice job Jens... Using my "sound colors of singing" approach to allowing students to see vowels with color in the training program, "The Four Pillars of Singing"... I actually created a graphic that shows the singing vowel shade colors, per frequency/pitch for great tunings... it follows through on the observation you made above.

Hint:

Lower Frequencies = Eh/Uh ish shadings.

Higher Frequencies = A/Aw ish shadings.

These are not the only singing vowel chemistries obviously, but this is a really great way to train, to get a great balance between forward and backward resonant vowels and to tune your sound color to something that is powerful and gorgeous... not do heavy and dopey, or too bright and quacky.

 

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Great post Jens.....

So much of this has to do with these hybrid vowel concoctions that have a lot to do with knowing and accepting your own voice.  You dial in on a vowel

(a throat shape) that works on your own voice. For me, the narrow vowels just seem to work better or shading towards narrow..

Maybe it's my long ass neck!!

lol!!

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Ok guys so this is ALOT MORE free phonation. Again C5 bt coming from falsetto then adding a bit more bite. I didnt have a chance to do it properly due to people in the house and not being warmed up but here goes.

Windy lower mass C5 -https://app.box.com/s/ckm6bibtyhtlyjyl5fbi2374d3jn2ttx

 

Windy C5 with bit more bite -https://app.box.com/s/6xn9z7jvklttw3viekojf2cls3xgz5jf

 

Windy C5 with bit more bite and subtle distortion - https://app.box.com/s/u5xy6p8xiy6zy6v0nl4mro4l77shycxl

 

So are these sounds full? If not, is this the right way to aproach it? Do i need to squeeze a tiny bit more? Or is this just plain wrong?

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Wow, sooooo much better Elvis, I can for sure hear your sound mass thinning (in a good way) and tipping up its resonance as you ascend the slide. Great progress and I love your comment about singing in the house lol. I used to be such a shy singer and didn't want anyone to hear me practice. I would encourage you to sing out even if people are home (keep the door closed tho, lol) I know a lot of people do sing in the car (as do I when I am driving) but you should always, always, always make sure when practicing new techniques etc you are standing and paying 100 percent of your focus on the singing, not the road haha. It's not that you can't sing well when seated but it is better to allow your body the freedom for the diaphragm to move as necessary when singing.

Just want to add as a side note that the improvement between your first sample and these new ones to me is literally Night and Day!!!! I think it shows that this forum can truly be a usable tool for singers of all levels to learn something valuable and new to them. It also goes to show that when you are interactive with other singers and teachers etc that amazing progress can be made rather quickly. Sometimes just a little suggested adjustment to your singing can make a huge change in the sound being produced. Very proud of you letting it "all hang out" on this forum and not being shy about posting clips of a younger singer trying to make progress. A singer who is afraid to try things because they MIGHT sound bad will never improve. Bravo my brother! :41:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That is definitely connected as well.  Sounds really good.  It's going to be a matter of degree now and your choice.  Distortion can help disguise a lighter C5.  You can still thicken it up with more compression if you want, but I wouldn't push it too hard.

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Elvis, a lot better control of your glottis. Nice work!  You are beginning to realize that glottal compression is a key to sound color, contributing to your interpretations as an artist.

What have you been doing to achieve this progress? Do share... 

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Elvis, a lot better control of your glottis. Nice work!  You are beginning to realize that glottal compression is a key to sound color, contributing to your interpretations as an artist.

What have you been doing to achieve this progress? Do share... 

well bassically mesa di voce. i did not really train as much as i would have liked to. 

The main notion was that high notes should feel like falsetto but sound like a huge belt. So i tried to squeeze it shut by using the coordination that is used in Quack and release and mesa di voce and contract and release...and applied it to falsetto and then this happened.

 

I will train a bit more now for sure, i passed thru 2 circles in Croatian The Voice so if i pass the next round (4.9.2015) ill enter the blind audition...that might be a good chance to get some exposure so i can start performing more.

 

But does those clips sound full? can i use that sound in a song??? if not for singing phrases at least to finish a chorus or something?

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Well done Elvis. I'm proud of you. You are staying committed, not giving up and you have a faith in the techniques your using and the information your receiving here on this forum and other sources. Whether you make it to the Croation Voice or not, is not so important. The bigger picture is and that is you are building an understanding of your voice and ... how it works and how to train it that will last you a life time. I am pleased to hear that those onsets and the knowledge you have picked up by being serious about them and really learning about it is paying off. I appreciate your faith in the TVS Method , in particular, the onsets... and giving it some time to sink in and work for you.

Its very cool to witness. :41:

:z-coffee:

 

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Well done Elvis. I'm proud of you. You are staying committed, not giving up and you have a faith in the techniques your using and the information your receiving here on this forum and other sources. Whether you make it to the Croation Voice or not, is not so important. The bigger picture is and that is you are building an understanding of your voice and ... how it works and how to train it that will last you a life time. I am pleased to hear that those onsets and the knowledge you have picked up by being serious about them and really learning about it is paying off. I appreciate your faith in the TVS Method , in particular, the onsets... and giving it some time to sink in and work for you.

Its very cool to witness. :41:

:z-coffee:

 

its really cool because the configuration in your throat is bassically a feeling. i dont konw if i am contracting this muscle or relaxing another but audiovisual aspect of it is very helpful. If quack compresses vocal folds then i have to use the feeling in my throat when im quacking to the mix. simple as that. but this does require constant evaluation of your voice and TIME. Time and Commitment is only factor when singing. i improved dramatically and i believe i wil continue to improve. Gonna try and do a cover soon of something a bit higher :)

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Well done Elvis. I'm proud of you. You are staying committed, not giving up and you have a faith in the techniques your using and the information your receiving here on this forum and other sources. Whether you make it to the Croation Voice or not, is not so important. The bigger picture is and that is you are building an understanding of your voice and ... how it works and how to train it that will last you a life time. I am pleased to hear that those onsets and the knowledge you have picked up by being serious about them and really learning about it is paying off. I appreciate your faith in the TVS Method , in particular, the onsets... and giving it some time to sink in and work for you.

Its very cool to witness. :41:

:z-coffee:

 

its really cool because the configuration in your throat is bassically a feeling. i dont konw if i am contracting this muscle or relaxing another but audiovisual aspect of it is very helpful. If quack compresses vocal folds then i have to use the feeling in my throat when im quacking to the mix. simple as that. but this does require constant evaluation of your voice and TIME. Time and Commitment is only factor when singing. i improved dramatically and i believe i wil continue to improve. Gonna try and do a cover soon of something a bit higher :)

Cool, ok!... Love how "4Pillars" has given you such cool insights on how your voice works and how to train it... this is a big advantage... but remember... alway keep singing and when you are singing, you can "check in" on these sensations and details for a fleeting moment of course, but don't fixate on it... it could make your singing "stiff"... lead with your heart and emotions when singing, with the technique skills and knowledge closely by your side.

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