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Proper Breath Management When Singing

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L_Holmes

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Optimize the formant distribution. :)

Optimize the formant distributionization !  Ok, Ill go update that in my book... I knew there was  a reason why you get a special thanks in the back of my book.

Can you imagine? How did we go from "that", to you getting a special thanks in the back of my book homes? If that is possible, then anything can happen. Seriously, there is a life lesson in there.

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Bolton? It takes balls to admire Michael Bolton. He's kind of a joke where I come from. This thread on the Prince forums summarizes popular opinion about him:

http://prince.org/msg/8/271391?&pg=1

I don't agree with following the masses on anything, so I admire anyone who is honest about their inspirations, but myself I've never understood Bolton as an artist. For me it feels like he is imitating the 'sound' of soul music while making it lighter by removing any darkness, tension, oppression, anguish, and threat, it sounds neutered.

Ruffin sings somewhat similarly on a mechanical level but he makes it believable. Growing up as abused child living in a racist society whose only power he ever had was his voice. It makes so much sense he would be channeling demons almost therapeutically me and roaring out to the world in general. 

I have no idea what Bolton is channeling or who or what he is roaring at? I'm sure he has real life situations, but when I hear it, it sounds like he channeling old soul records in a soft rock middle of the road kind of setting. Sometimes I feel like the only person on the forum who finds little power in the size of the voice with 90 percent of the power of a voice being the emotional expression of the voice.

I've heard whispering that sounded way more powerful than a lot of these guys. Different strokes for different folks. I respect it, but I still don't fully get it. If someone strains out the fattest note to Happy Birthday is that now the most powerful voice? What does power even mean to people?

Killer, you're saying this is not a great soulful voice? One of the things to remember is if you are studying a singer, you have to look past just the hits they made. Watch  this video how he moves into Nessun Dorma after singing pop and soul songs.  We know he's not an Opera singer, but just to have this versatility live is sick. And this performance of "Back on my feet" is to me just incredible (below this video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAnOWZDB8vs

 

 

 

 

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In regards to "swelling" the note or "amplify the formant" (which is a misnomer). To get louder, you'll always have to increase the resistance and pressure at the vocal fold level. It's physically impossible to enhance the volume without increasing the source input. Whether or not you want to use the word push or force when teaching is another debate, but physically that's what actually happens.

right but if the cords do not have the right adjustment (medial compression etc) you will get louder but it will not ring as loud or be as clear.  So you could push and force but it won't be very efficient without the proper adjustments with the folds. It doesn't feel much like like pushing or forcing when you get it down well.  That why I believe you hear many great singers say "it's like an extension of speech not to much effort". And then others say "I get tired after one set or I can't sing three nights in a row etc."

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right but if the cords do not have the right adjustment (medial compression etc) you will get louder but it will not ring as loud or be as clear.  So you could push and force but it won't be very efficient without the proper adjustments with the folds. It doesn't feel much like like pushing or forcing when you get it down well.  That why I believe you hear many great singers say "it's like an extension of speech not to much effort". And then others say "I get tired after one set or I can't sing three nights in a row etc."

Yes. Great observation Dan.

When I read this, I visualize a SIMPLE physics equation... now just bare with me and don't give me the "... don't talk tech rhetoric", because this is not serious science or physics anyways. To be sure, there actually is a real equation for my faux equation below, but as it stands, my faux equation below still makes the point. Incidentally, if anyone has the real equation for something like this, I would LOVE to see it... uhm, Marty, Benny, someone? ... ok, I went back and actually created a version of this that looks nice... it is now inside one of the lessons in the new The Four Pillars of Singing Course work system. This looks prettier..

The_formula_for_a_well_balanced_singing_

And I keep coming back to a recent observation I have been having in my own voice that was brought up recently here... Dan, presuming for the sake of discussion, you and I are on the same page... when these elements are optimized, you also get "Vocal Tract Reactance or Impedance Feedback Looping".

... in laymen's terms that translates to, .... sounds great, feels great, amplifies great, agility is great, etc... 

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more like this Optimized & Great Sounding Singing Voice Optimized Formant=   Optimized Compression x Accurate Frequency x Optimized Sub-Glottal Pressure (Respiration).

That works too Dan!... but we are having fun with this... Your formula, as it clearly states, is for an "optimized formant"... but my formula is for an "optimized singing voice"... which has to include an optimized formant as a variable in this formula metaphor...

Anyways, fun geeking out with ya buddy... 

Would someone please give us the real physics on this... ? that would be cool... 

The formula for a well balanced singing voice.png

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I kind of divide in my head two different interpretations of what soulful means. The first is a genre singing, where certain mechanical mannerisms can be imitated. If someone does a spot on imitation of Ray Charles or Otis Redding they can be considered part of the genre.

But then there is a second type, which as an agnostic sounds like someone is singing literally from the closest thing to a soul that probably exists. For me it's probably not supernatural, but it is singing informed on a deep psychological connection to to subconsciuos and emotional temperament of the singer. Their life experiences, their psychology, their interprative emotions, all being expressed profound sincerity.

In that sense, I can only really identify kindred spirits. I'm not saying Bolton is soulless,  but I have only been able to make out the solid mechanical imitations of the soul genre with a very solid technique. But you know the snare is more 80s, the voice sounds more melodramatic, like over the top.  He seems like a really nice guy, and ironically seems kind of cool in a few interviews I've read from him.
He probably is singing from the heart and all that, but I can't identify it, it sounds like the trappings of a genre imitated with glossier production and the like. Tiny voiced guys like

Neil Young, with that wavering out of control almost falsetto sound, sometimes actually wandering out of tune. Some of these guys sound way more soulful to me, in that I can hear a kindred spirit while not being imitative of the genre.

The last soul genre singer I know of that really hit me hard was Al Green. It was like he was a completely unique spirit. Playful, jubilant, almost drunk, but at the same time capable of a lot of emotional depth.

Listen to him even speak: jubilant, playfulness, inflection, even some of the phrasing, but he can get really serious too, he doesn't even need to sing for me to pick up those qualities:
 

But he started off imitating Wilson Pickett. And his record producer (Willie Mitchell) demanded that he sang like 'Al Green' and not like anyone else. And refused to even record him until he sang like Al Green. It worked.  Maybe if Willie Mitchell did the same thing with Bolton, he would have done something different that would have caught my ears? I dunno.

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well i remember bolton when i was a kid and he was in a rock band called blackjack he was always soulful. like a Paul rodgers,steve marriot,rod stewart etc. All blue eyed soul singers, just because these guys are white doesn't make them souless.  :)  .  Bolton has been in this game for decades and has always delivered with 110%. He struggled in a few rock bands but only got noticed when he did the smooth R&b soul thing . good for him I love the guy. 

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well i remember bolton when i was a kid and he was in a rock band called blackjack he was always soulful. like a Paul rodgers,steve marriot,rod stewart etc. All blue eyed soul singers, just because these guys are white doesn't make them souless.  :)  .  Bolton has been in this game for decades and has always delivered with 110%. He struggled in a few rock bands but only got noticed when he did the smooth R&b soul thing . good for him I love the guy. 

One thing that people forget when talking about a singers sound ......... The audience decides what they want from the singer.  Once the audience found Bolton he was pretty much stuck with that sound...... John Lennon Hated to sing Twist and Shout pretty much because he was Shouting and it hurt.... but that was the sound that worked with the song.

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Yes MDEW, I think one of the best examples of this is Steve Perry... How would you like to be Steve Perry ... what a huge expectation to pull off. In fact, when he was fired from the band... from what I hear from people that have insights to it, Neal Schon fired him because Steve was begging to take a break and rest his voice after the Frontiers tour... Schon insisted on no breaks and Perry couldn't keep up with the set, singing like that night after night after night for 10 years... it is one of the toughest singing gigs in the world... singing for Journey because people INSIST that you capture that sound.... its not like Brian Johnson who replaces Bon Scott for AC/DC... it doesn't sound the same, but it still sounds "right" and works... keep going, no issue. If you sing for Journey or Queensryche... you gotta pull it off... not only the notes, but the SOUND COLOR!

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Bolton is a hard worker and a professional in the business. Got nothing to do with race, just sharing emotions from the deepest recesses of the body/spirit and if you have to make too many sacrifices in your work for commercial reasons, that might be lost.

If Lennon really hated shouting so much he wouldn't have written this one, which is probably the epitome of a white guy singing soulfully, blasting past many black singer with raw sincerity:

That tops a good portion of soul genre tracks for me, with a few like Sam Cooke's "A Change is Gonna Come" crowding it out and joining the ranks. I just prefer tracks like when it comes to soul and wish the entire genre had expanded with Cooke, Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder past simple love songs.

 

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   John writes to the emotion and because of the emotion.  The scream is needed....... McCartney learned how to scream through having Fun. Lennon Learned to scream because he was emotionally in pain and pissed off. There is a difference in the sound of it also. Guys like Ruffing learned to scream through religious expressions...........

   I never had a reason to scream.......Still can't ....... Maybe I should join a church ....... Go through a divorce ...... or be abandoned by my family ..... Maybe then I will learn how to scream and be convincing......... Naaa. I will just sing love songs and songs of a happy life. ;)

   

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   John writes to the emotion and because of the emotion.  The scream is needed....... McCartney learned how to scream through having Fun. Lennon Learned to scream because he was emotionally in pain and pissed off. There is a difference in the sound of it also. Guys like Ruffing learned to scream through religious expressions...........

   I never had a reason to scream.......Still can't ....... Maybe I should join a church ....... Go through a divorce ...... or be abandoned by my family ..... Maybe then I will learn how to scream and be convincing......... Naaa. I will just sing love songs and songs of a happy life. ;)

   

I agree with that mostly. But a raucous emotional state is still sincere. Little Richard basically began this kind of thing, and taught it personally to Paul. Singing along to Little Richard kind of helped me as well, but I had already done Lennon style screaming prior to that. I never had a father and spent time in foster care and all that. I knew exactly what he was saying and could bust that out easily. 

However, a lot of singers, when screaming sound mechanical, they don't sound raucous or having fun, or anguished, or anything. Melissa Cross summarized it to me: it will sound like a scream, but it will feel like meditating.

The coordination exists, but I'm not convinced the prosody transfers to me if it doesn't actually feel like screaming. It's the same with a lot of types of singing. It can be a very controlled sound. It can be dialed in to almost anything. But I connect to artists that I can identify the prosody and relate to. And when it sounds 'too' controlled, it's almost anti prosody for me.

It's never been the case to me that the most mechanically in control of pretty much anything, but especially my voice when in an extremely emotional state. It's the chaotic effect on emotions on the voice that draw me in. Bolton sounds like he is in command and unshakable of the spontaneity of the moment. to where he pretty much always does this controlled roar thing and things don't really get much more raucous or anguished, his voice doesn't crack with emotion. It sounds impervious to emotion.

I can totally hear on Mother that Lennon's pitching is a bit worse. His screaming is even less controlled. That much emotion does that to a voice, imo. Where as if you're in a zen like state you can kind of just command it. Does nothing for me as a listener. That's basically what i was saying from that first post. I'd rather hear silence than singing without sabotaged or colored by emotion that I can hear. Silence sounds more sincere.

Sometimes, like with Bolton, I might just not be able to hear the emotion. But I know, if I'm just sitting here, I can kind of dial in a soul tone, or rock tone, or scream tone, jazz tone, reggae tone, pop tone, classical tone, whatever X tone. It might have the sound of a genre, but I can even annoy myself. It's part of the vocal journey, but I'm not proud of it. I'd rather sing too sincerely to fit into any genre like Nina Simone did. That's what inspires me.

Like her heart is on her sleeve and she is basically naked, flaws, bi polar, and all, I like emotionally exposed singers who could give a performance like this:

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A couple of things.

"Loud" is relative. You can be loud enough without pushing too much air, which I think Daniel was trying to say. And by the way, how a person sounds like on a professionally produced album is the result of the producer.

Also, about Bolton, though I don't much listen to his music, I was very entertained and educated by his memoirs. He is quite humble and explained his journey to what became his calling. He started out as a rock singer in a rock band and put out 8 rock albums that tanked followed by 8 rock tours that went nowhere.

So, one day, talking with his producer for album number nine, the guy said, "everyone I know really loves how you do "Dock of the Bay" by Otis Redding. Why don't we try an album like that. I will produce it if you agree to this change."

After more than a decade of busting his back as a rock singer, kaboom, instant success as a soul singer. As well as later taking opera lessons to pursue his passion of doing some art songs and arias. So, yes, he lasts because of technique but also because he has successfully defined the niche into which he best fits.

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Yes MDEW, I think one of the best examples of this is Steve Perry... How would you like to be Steve Perry ... what a huge expectation to pull off. In fact, when he was fired from the band... from what I hear from people that have insights to it, Neal Schon fired him because Steve was begging to take a break and rest his voice after the Frontiers tour... Schon insisted on no breaks and Perry couldn't keep up with the set, singing like that night after night after night for 10 years... it is one of the toughest singing gigs in the world... singing for Journey because people INSIST that you capture that sound.... its not like Brian Johnson who replaces Bon Scott for AC/DC... it doesn't sound the same, but it still sounds "right" and works... keep going, no issue. If you sing for Journey or Queensryche... you gotta pull it off... not only the notes, but the SOUND COLOR!

I think Todd LaTorre has done a great job filling the void. It's not easy to replace someone like Geoff Tate, but he's spot on. Looking forward to their new album.

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Good stuff.  I like both of those versions of A Change is Gonna Come but I'd give the edge to Redding. The improvisation is so primal and urgent but he doesn't lose the melody or meaning of the song. retha went a bit too screaming and some of her improvisations lost the feel of the song for me, making it sound more like her time currently happening rather than a time for everyone was coming, as per sentiment of the song.   

Sadly the Bolton one didn't do it for me, I didn't think Georgia On My Mind needed that many vocal runs and he sounded rushed, throwing in fast improvisations like he wanted to impress people. Particularly the 'power toilet voice' never dialing down much outside of repeated head/whistle sections seemed excessive and out of context with Ray. Kind of gave me an Aguilara vibe. I think I'm hopeless with the Bolton thing. :4:

Meanwhile, Ray was spot on channeling the song as usual with that same flow he's always had. He grunts, he growls, shouts, but it's always spaced with phenomenal spacing. Less is more for me, when it comes to phrasing. It's what separates melodic guitar players from shredders who fill things  to the brim it's the same with vocals. They all have to breath and rest. Maybe my problem with Bolton's problem is he does give 110 percent all the time. 110 of the 'power', range, notes, fills, etc.

Sometimes it's the slightest things that can move me the most. All it can take is less than an octave of sparsely placed phrasing with dead on sincerity to really move me. This is an excellent example: 

Both Sam songs were good, but I liked the Soul Stirrers one a bit better, as it was a fuller composition and hearing his roots away from sometimes cheesy earlier secular stuff he did sounds promising. I'll definitely be digging further into his Gospel years. 

Anyway, for passionate loud shout singing, no one has been able to can convey despondency and explosive despair better to me than Ruffin:

 

No one has ever been able to share explosive jubilant enthusiasm on the same level as Toots Hibbert:

 

These are kind of extreme emotions I can get from this type of singer. They can have similar textures or volumes, but I know exactly what they are feeling based on their emotional state. One guy sounds like he is gutwrenchingly at the end of his rope, like his heart is being torn out on pitch, and he is practically choking in solitude, despair, and grief, and like he could collapse. And the other guy sounds like an ambassador of joy, love, happiness, and peace, who shouts almost super humanly across the lands with endless vigor. Toots was like 70 before he got hit with that bottle by some jerk, but until that he was tirelessly jubilant and nothing could stop that guy.    

That's what I can't hear with Bolton. 'Soul-like, loud, or 110 percent' aren't emotional states. Being those things can be a nice avenue for sharing a message, but by themselves, I don't know what it means. Unless I can grasp those states, I can't relate to any singer at any volume, or any voice size, from the tiniest voices below speaking volume, to the biggest in history.

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Judging a singer for being rushed when onstage with an idol, is like judging a fighter his first time in the big show.  Being under stress has its effects. I don't believe opinions  have a place in judging someone's soul.  It's seems quite soulless;). Now on judging technique well yeah if the singer can demonstrate the way it should be i'm all ears.

 

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