Steven Fraser

Gino,

Nica talking to you this evening.

,I listened to the song, both recordings..

I like the higher one.  With 1 word change, it could be a response ( over the whine of the line) from the person that he wants 'for all time'

As I mentioned earlier, I used to listen to this Campbell album in High School.  The only thing I miss in your interpretation is a little of the loneliness I remember feeling from Glenn's recording...

 But that was long ago.

on a side, technical note.. The vibrato is very well xt time you record, just a bit more twang to make it more plaintive might work well.  Personal taste, I know.

Wait so I really have a whistle register? Really?

Yes,

Hi Folks.. I think the problem in the song seems to be in the chorus(obviously).. I think I understand what you are trying to say even when I don't always understand the technical details.

Steven, thanks for your feedback.. "The upper ones twang fine, but as you approach the passagio from the topside, it gets lost".. I think I know what you mean. I interpret this as a configuration that helps me to reach the higher notes, I seem to lose that configuration when I descend. I have to find a way to stay "up" there, whatever twang means.. I have always had this problem and you have explained my issue in a way it makes sense to me! Thank you very much..

Please listen to this short version. It is an experiment based on your feedback.. I think I like the "I have been waiting" at 0:11 and the "yeah waiting" at 0:30.. I understand what you nice folks mean when you say it sounds "disconnected" and "not full". Also why we should work to make each note seemingly flow from the previous note like a river flowing and not jumpy....

https://app.box.com/s/o5f7d9fcjdl7otm5477tx5vbr7dzdjip

I am not straining here. I guess that makes make me a high voice albeit one that is heavier than Lou Gramm.. Somehow in my subconscious, when I have approached the chorus, I have tried to mimic Lou Gramm's voice and the tone and not tried to sing in my own voice. This is the most difficult part about singing covers for me!!

This recording is much improved. Congrats! The twang is more consistent, with the last 'waiting' the best, and you also did a little vowel change for that one, as well, on the 2nd syllable of that word.

The key interval is the change in those two syllables. Though it will seem strange as an exercise, you can isolate them for practice individually (sing the first, several time alone, no preceding syllables) on multiple vowel shades (wee, we', weh) to find just the right one.

Right now, you are using the very bright we', (very close to wee, like the word way without the diphthong) like Lou, which has a lower passaggio than the others, which is why it helps you get 'up' there, but may not tune to your harmonics the best. So, sing the note just like you do, hold it a bit, and let your jaw drop just a smidgen progressively until the high ring appears. When you find it, make a notation of how you think about it, and repeat the exercise with the next vowel in the series.

With each vowel, you will be raising the 1st formant, and increasing the oscuro (dark) of the sound. I think you will find the very best one between the we' you are using and a bright weh.

Then, do the same with the 2nd syllable of the word, singing it alone with all the shades between ee and ih, keeping twang, until you find the perfect one.

Then put them together on the two notes, listening for the exact ping that you got singing them individually. This will be a little more challenging, but with 10 mins of practice a day on it, after a few days you will be able to get them both to ring right consistently.

Finally, add the preceding word (been) and try out bee, bih and beh as alternatives.

At that point, you can reincorporate them into the phrase of the chorus.

Keep up the good work. You have made great progress in a short time.

I hope this is helpful.

Hi Folks,

This is a second take of this song. I have been down with throat infection and cough again in the last 10 days and my voice is not in the best shape.

I have been meaning to do this for a while, since my skills have improved.. This is, like some of my recent recordings, a single take. To me it sounds a little unpolished...

This is a very difficult song for me. I am unsure how much air I need to use and I feel dangerously close to flipping from head voice into falsetto!

I seem to have problem with the pitch(just a little shaky).. What do I need to do to improve pitch accuracy(obviously talking about live singing here where we don't have luxury of multiple takes)..

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JOC0jOmpnN

Some top-down sirens and scales which approach the transition from the top should make the difference, with 15 mins a day for 2-3 weeks. IMO, you will also want to visit the specific vowels you sing in that area. They are not as resonant as they could be. The exercise for that is to sing each vowel shade related (close by) to the one you think you want. One of them will simply be much better the all the others. However, the 'right' vowel will change every couple notes. Be patient.

When you doing both of those, singing with consistent twang and spot-on vowels, it will be wonderful, and easier, much easier to sing.

That is how Lou (the master) does it.. Each note/vowel combination is ' just-so', perfect.

I hope this is helpful.

m.i.r:

Save your original, then try this...

If doing EQ in post, start with the dry recording, boost 900 to 1600 Hz with +3 dB, then through the compressor and the reverb.

That frequency range covers F2 in a male voice pretty well. You have what you need to fine-tune the range, by measuring Ah and ee with the spectrograph, and using what you find for F2 as your boost range.

Let us know how it turns out.

thanks so much for your constructive words and feedback! by legato, do you mean a smooth transition from note to note? and if so, in singing, what are the elements of producing a good legato? does one's articulation affect legato?

rushingcandle: Yes, articulation affects legato. Here are some things that you can practice that will improve your legato:

1) When you sing a syllable of a word, determine which vowel sound you will sustain, and which one(s) you will do very rapidly. Candidates here are all dipthongs and tripthongs. The goal is to sustain the longer sound, and let all the other ones happen as rapidly as possible.

2) Whenever possible, make the consonants short in duration, but long enough to be clear. Of consonants, the ones most often done too-shortly are M and N.

3) Look at each verse, or chorus of a song, and decide which phrase you want loudest, for whatever reason your interpretive sensitivites indicate. Within each phrase, decide the starting volume, the 'top' volume, and how you will finish.

This analysis will help you understand when a note must crescendo in its middle, when it should sustain its volume, and when it should diminish in volume during its length. This decision, note by note in a phrase, helps the singer plan where crescendos should be placed in the line to support the interpretive (expressive) intent.

4) To support the performance of #1, practice a line of text from a song, and sing it 'out of time', with no regard to rhythm, but sustaining all the chosen vowels, and rapidly pronouncing the shorter ones.

5) to practice #2, sing the same text in time, making all the consonants take minimal time, and the vowels sustained.

6) to practice #3, put a dynamic plan in the score or lead-sheet you are using, to indicate the volume levels and transitions you have chosen. Go back, and sing the whole thing on a single, sustained vowel (pick your fave) and do the volume plan. When you can sing it to your satisfaction that way, pick a different vowel and repeat.

Then, go back and sing the verse with just the vowels, no consonants. You will likely laugh when you do this... its way funny, but will help you learn that attention to the vowels will help you work the text into your voice. Also, it will reveal those places where you simply must breathe.

7 Finally, put all these skills together. Start at your chosen volume, and, (sustaining the emphasized vowels and minimizing the others), move from syllable to syllable with the consonants rhythmically and clearly placed. Work your dynamic plan.

The result will be wel on the way to a nice legato.

I hope this is helpful.

jonpall: you might use these improvisations to build some songs, too, as a compositional technique. Melodies and vowel patterns which work in improvisiation only need sensible words.... lyrics, to become very effective songs. The only difference is that most songs will take really simple material and build on it for the main melodies and the hook.

Consider Eleanor Rigby, for example. It starts with the hook... 'Ah, look at all the lonely people', which has a very plaintive, emotionally catchy line and harmony, and then goes into a melodically simple pattern for the verses, which focuses attention to the lyrics, the story, told with that easy syncopation.

WHat makes the song work is that the storytelling verses are tied together with that emotional expression... the contrast freshens the listener's mind so that the verses can be attended to.

My advice: always record your improvisation sessions, and 'harvest' them for melodic material.. especially melody/vowel combinations that work well for you.

BTW, though I am not a rock singer... I have practiced this way occasionally, off and on, for 30 years. For me, its a more personal expression of my desire to sing... to express my inner situation with my voice. The more you do this, the more value I think you will find in it.

Since I've been writing a bit about my opinions on rock tenor singing techniques (high, powerful notes, usually with distortion), I thought it might be fun to let you hear me do a simple exercise that I've been doing a lot recently to help me get better at this sound. I don't claim to have really mastered it yet, since I'm relatively new at this but I feel that I'm improving and I couldn't even go near this style of singing a while ago.

This exercise is very simple. Using this "rock tenor sound" and really focusing on twang (but with resonant vowels whenever I can), simply improvise random melodies with random words and have fun. It's just gibberish but I feel that it's good training after you've gotten slightly good at just getting that sound going on in the high part of the voice. So this would be a good next step in going from scales to something that resembles a song:

http://www.box.net/shared/716r0cu0v4

Jonpall: Oooooo. I can hear that being used in the middle of a song, totally a cappella or with a very subtle, soft accompanyment, as a sort of extemporaneous, ecstatic moment. Kinda like the solo in the middle of 'Whole Lotta Love'.

Alternatively, as a stunning intro to a piece.

Or (this is way wild) using key words or ideas provided by the audience, like audience-participation improv....

I liked it. Way to go.

http://www.singsnap.com/snap/r/b9ea4fb0

I have only been singing for about 4 years, but please let me know what you think.

Scott Connor: Style was good, and level of intensity was just right.

I did hear a few things that IMO can be improved. I hope this is the kind of feed-back you are seeking:

There is a tendency to tune flat after just transitioning up to the top, or down to the middle voice. These need some attention, best by singing the song quite slowly until every note is spot-on accurately intoned. One of McCartney's musical gifts was his ability to sing accurately without sounding 'studied'. To really make this cover top-notch, the attention to detail will need to happen in your practice.

Also, and perhaps this was intended, but the accompanyment is going just a bit faster than you are, as if you are not quite able to keep the tempo. This could be something as simple as needing a slightly louder accompanyment mix, so you can hear it better. Alternatively, you could set up a metronome with a visual beat (not an audible one) so you can see the tempo even when its not audibly reinforced in the accompanyment. This will get better with practice.

Keep up the good work!

I liked it. Style is spot-on. Diction is good. Could use a little more twang, but overall very reasonable and enjoyable to listen to.

Here and there, some very small intonation inaccuracies, but, as has been said... you just learned it.

Take a couple times through the song slowly and tune each note precisely to cement the intonation in your mind. After that, should even out very well.

Keep up the good work.

ok - lately I've been recording stuff with many many many vocal tracks to smooth it out. Attached is one part of ONE track and I would appreciate any comments on how to improve it as to tone, etc. I am mainly interested in improving my voice to record my own stuff for demos/sketches, and as a personal challenge.

one chorus (first one of song), single vocal track:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19046930/sunisyou_chorusvocal_onetrack_jan_18_2011.mp3

the full mix, which has a bunch of vocal layers:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19046930/sunisyouwithbridge_jjan_5_2011.mp3

bb: well done! Your vocal is very well tuned, and the overlays are well done.

As to how to improve.... this is stylistically coherent already. The only thing I suggest you look at is the arrangement. The sections with unison overdubs can sometimes be simplified into just a singlle voice very effectively, i.e., right at the beginning. Then, when you break into harmoniy... then let the other voices (in the band) loose.

Also a bit of bass and very subtle drum kit would add interest as the song progresses. This is a _+very_ good start. I liked it a lot.

As far as the firmness of my upper abdominals goes, all I can say is that my abs/stomach don't contract unless I'm trying to sing really loudly, like pushing my vocal cords to the point where sustaining a steady pitch is really difficult. Otherwise, the area between the sternum and navel does get slightly firmer when I inhale, and the firmness continues when I sing a note. If I flex my abs I sound constipated. Maybe I am using up a bit less air when utilizing my "constipated mode," though?

NCdan: Ok, thanks for the response. The activity of the diaphragm reduces the force of the air, and that lengthens the amount of time during each phonation cycle that the glottis is closed, what is called the 'closed phase', making the tone clearer and more firm. If the firming is overdone, the closed cycle gets too long, making the voice strident, and eventually may be described using your colorful word.

Play around with the firming out, some more, some less, and see what is the effect on the tone. It will be helpful to record yourself in this.

The next thing to look at is the glottal closure itself. I will give you an exercise in the next couple days to help develop complete glottal closure, that you can add to your firm-ab onset.

more later.

Well, I had the whole breathe from your stomach thing drilled into my head, so I do that subconsciously. It's just natural for me to inhale down there and exhale starting from there as well. To me, singing from the diaphragm means not using my throat as the power behind my singing, but using my throat more as a rudder and my stomach-ish area as the power. Although, I'll admit that when it comes to singing I sometimes do use my throat to generate more power, especially on high notes or when I try to sing loudly (which is most of the time). I guess that describes what I try to do when I sing. Thanks for the help.

NCdan: Ok, I think I get the picture. An inhalation of that type is just fine. But an exhalation needs something to balance the force so that the laryngeal muscles don't get overwhelmed. The diaphragm, which is a muscle of inhalation, needs to stay involved (active) to balance off the natural reflex of abdominal contraction. If this balance does not happen, too much exhalation force reaches the larynx.

One way to assure that the diaphragmatic balance happens is to establish it right before the onset of the note. Take in the breath as you are, and at the end of the breath intake, pause the inhalation with your throat open, but without letting the exhale start. With one hand, feel the firmness of the abdomen in the area between the sternum (breastbone) and the navel. This firmness is the result of the continued action of the diaphragm balancing the stored-up energy in the abs.

As you onset a note, try to maintain this sense of firmness. With your prior trumpet experience, you no longer need to deliberately try to cause an ab contraction when you start a note... all the ab contraction you will need will happen reflexively as a result of your desire to make a vocal tone, loud or soft. The control on this exhalation results when you balance that ab action by letting the diaphragm resist it enough, so that the voice gets just what it needs.

This sensation is felt a variety of ways, but to many, this feels like a 'fullness' of expansion of abdomen is maintained....the abdomen feels firmed 'outward', or the breath feels suspended, as if while still inhaling, during the production of the note. To me, the amount of firmness feels somewhat like the firmness of a full water balloon when you press your hand flat on it.

Try starting out some notes this way, with the abdomen firmed outward, and see what happens to the clarity of the note and your volume. I think you will enjoy it. Please let us know what happens.

Looking forward to your response.

I'm starting to get sort of annoyed, because I always get the same comment on my vocals, namely that they sound too weak, or there's not enough breath, etc... I know I'm not the next American Idol and I wander on and off key, but I just don't understand how my vocals aren't strong enough if I'm about 2 db's away from screaming. I'm a classically trained trumpet player and I think I have the whole breathing from your stomach and let your diaphragm do the work thing down pat. However, people always say that my singing isn't strong enough. I guess I'm just at a loss and I don't know what else I can do to get my vocals sounding bigger or whatever they need to be.

Attached are a couple of songs I recorded: nothing great, just some quick demos I did. I know, the first song "Wonderful" really sucks, but I just did it for my fiance in like 5 hours total, so I suppose that's a pretty accurate picture of my singing. So, can you guys be so kind as to tell me what my vox seem to be lacking? Thanks and happy new year.

NCdan: Hi. Welcome to the board.

I listened to the two recordings, and have some responses to your questions, and some other thoughts too.

First, you don't sing with 'not enough breath'. Whomever is telling you that does not hear your tone quality very well. To my ear, you are letting much more breath through your voice than you need to... you can convert much more of it to sound.

I think part of the challenge is that you are a classically-trained trumpet player. The bodily sensations of breath use are diffferent for trumpet and voice. But, before I can be sure about this, please answer a question: When you say 'Let your Diaphragm do the work'.... what does that mean to you? What bodily actions are you describing with that turn of phrase?

Looking forward to your reply.

Anyway. This song has some firsts in it. This is the first time I have played my electric guitar into the computer, thanks to the guitarface II USB interface that I use with the mic. I didn't spend much time adjusting the guitar, other than tuning it to 440 A on the first string at the 5th fret (standard tuning, with an electronic metronome I have that produces a 440 tone.) In Audacity, I gave it an acoustic mix with the vocal range notched. The guitar is a Hondo copy of a Flying V, jacked into a Roland GS-6 digital effects rack unit (both about 20 years old) and that is jacked into the second channel in the USB interface with about a medium input level, since I am jacked out of a stereo output from the digital rack unit.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8750209/With%20or%20without%20you%20-%201.mp3

Ronws: I listened through this several times, and I agree with other commenters who noted the strides you have made with your vocals. You definitely have the connection beween your voice and the emotion of the song going... that part comes through.

As to comments, I think there are multiple things you can do to take this to the next level, not only the vocalism but the recording technique and accompanying as well. I am not sure of your priorities here, so I'll just put the ideas out there of what I think you should work on... what I would like to hear happen, and let you sort them as appropriate. I am listing them in the order they occur to me. I apologize in advance if some of this is too picky, or not what you are looking for by way of comments.

- The guitar tuning was out, especially the D-position chord. The A, Bm and G-position chords did not sound too bad, but could be improved. On earphones, the guitar mix sounded like it needed more mid and treble. I think it would be worth your while to redo the accompanyment with a few different kinds of settings, until you get something that sounds well on laptop speakers, and on earphones/buds.

- The style of the accompanyment, when you used the lightly-syncopated strumming, was IMO just fine. But, sustained through the course of the song, especially with the low-freq distortion effect... was too much of the same thing. Consider in certain places, for example when singing down low, picking fewer of the strings, and perhaps using slightly less distortion effect for contrast that will create interest.

When you go up top, I'd like to hear the accompanyment fill out so that the earnest stridency of the vocal is matched with stronger harmonic contribution from your axe.

- Vocally, there was a fairly consistent tuning disagreement between the guitar part and the vocal in the lower voice range... to my ear, voice on the low side of the pitch. I'd like to hear what would happen if you re-recorded the voice part while listening to the guitar track pre-recorded, so you could devote your attention entirely to the expression of the vocal.

- Dynamically, a couple comments...

- on the soft end there are consonants that are just a wee bit too soft to be heard unless the room is perfectly quiet. It would not work 'live' that way. I suggest that you cozy up to the mic on the soft sections, and then lean back a bit when you jump up the octave, so that you do not overwhelm the mic.

- I'd like to hear some dynamic shading of the phrases through out the song, so that there are gradations between the soft of the lower and loud of the higher sections. You can do this by starting a phrase at slightly less than the most important syllable.... build to it, then relax a bit after. As you approach the octave jumps, you can add intensity to build the anticipation of the upper-range sections.

I hope these were the sorts of comments and suggestions that you are looking for. I'm looking forward to your next recording.

Geno: Very, very tasty... arrangement, vocals, production are all excellent.

I enjoyed it, too!

This is such a nice little song written by the late Ray Gillen, singer of the group Badlands.

Hope you like my rendition... https://files.me.com/muskysnax/bs3kz1.mp3

Snax: This is very tasty. Even without a band, you communicate the song very well your vocal styling alone. You just lay it out there, guts and all, for us to hear. Very, very well done.

I agree with the others that have said that your voice is deserving of a wider audience. IMO, to move to the next level you need to be practicing with a good band and gigging. Its also way more fun than singing acappella into a digital recorder. It will be work, but the cold, Canadian winter will be warmer for it.

A cred bump for you.

Here's my first singing video on youtube. The song is World Affair by Richie Kotzen, i just love this song!

I need advice on support and attack (onset?). Each time i begin a sentence, i'm off key because i just can't seem to control my support and onset, i really love to have some advices ;-).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPllLrZf2Mo

Joshual: Hey, very nicely done. I hear what you mean about the onsets. Here are some comments and suggestions of approaches you can take to them that should help to improve them.

1) Think the first note earlier. The way the pitch-control mechanism of the voice works, about 1/5 to 1/4 of a second before you start phonating your laryngeal muscles adjust to produce the note you are about to make. As you are taking your breath right before the phrase is started, think as clearly as you can the note that you are about to sing. That should help some of the accuracy.

2) When the first note of a phrase is tricky, isolate it and practice it out of context. Turn the syllable into an onset exercise, and sing it 20 to 50 times in a row, refining your technique... being really picky with yourself, to make it as clean, accurate, on-pitch and rhythmically accurate as you can. Even 10-15 minutes of attention on a particular onset will make a big difference.

Once you can do that one note to your satisfaction, add 2 or 3 more in the phrase, and weave the onset into the beginning of the well-done phrase.

Work all the onsets this way. For a song, may take 2-3 days of 1/2 hour a day with this sort of exercise to begin to train your mind to think your onsets in this new, accurate way. Once you get to that point, and I think you will be able to feel and hear when that happens, then you can go back and dirty up some of them for effect, if you want.

Its really funny that it works this way, but the voice follows your musical imagination. These exercises are about training your mind to approach the onsets more precisely.

I think you'll be pleased with the outcome. As others have said, you have great timing and a real feel for this song. You are very musical, and it comes through in the performance. Good job.

I hope this helps with what you have in mind to accomplish.

Hey gang,

I tried something different with my A.R.T. Tube MP mic pre amp on this recording. I read that driving the input harder will allow the tube to give more character or warmth to the sound. I then compensated by reducing the output level and the resulting vocal sound was indeed a little warmer than before. This effect will be even better with a high quality mic pre which I'll purchase in the future.

Here I am am singing the Styx song "Lady" along with a karaoke backing track. Hope it's up to par.

https://files.me.com/muskysnax/mm4o2w.mp3

Snax: Driving the input harder produces a mild, 'round shoulder' clipping distortion, which we interpret as warmth. The amount you are using seems perfectly fine.

Don't diss the A.R.T. Its good equipment. I used to have a tube SLA, and I was very pleased.

The recording came out very well... good performance on a very challenging song. At times it seems that you are kinda throwing your voice at the pitch, rather than singing it, at the beginning of phrases. Otherwise, very enjoyable.

When are you cutting your first CD, dude?

My support was probably a bit off tbh, what with focusing on guitar. I shouldn't do that.

Also the vowel thing is something I really struggle with. Have been working on it, but it still isn't quite where I want it yet.

Nathan: A way to practice that is to lengthen the vowel... just sing it nice and long a few times, like you are singing the note without the F at all. THen, add the shortest F you can, right before the next word. When it feels like you are putting the F on the beginning of the next word, that is about right.

Hi,

I thought this recording was pretty good, and got better as you progressed into the song.

One of the difficulties with the recording is that the balance between the guitar and the voice is not great... the guitar overpowers the voice in the early part. To fix that, do another recording, and put the mic closer to your mouth than it is to the guitar, or use 2 mics.

One area I can suggest for some attention is the amount of voice used on some of the shorter/faster notes. For a word like 'if', lst the vowel sound for the ih be longer, and shorten the F sound. Apply the principle generally, and you will create a greater sense of singing line in the phrases.

Hey, man.... well done. Here are a few comments.

First, the intensity level you are using is well-suited to the piece. You are out there vocally, and the thrust of the phrases comes across very well. I think you have connected with the kind of vocalism that this piece demands, and the intensity of the expression.

Second, It took you several phrases to get into your most accurate and sustainable vocalism. See if you can get there from the very beginning. It will make the whole song less draining.

Third, IMO you need to be looking at the audience, and not at your left hand on the fretboard while you are delivering. Either rehearse it to the point that you can do it solidly by feel, or sample the guitar opening into a loop, and then sing along with it.

This was a kick to see you in action. Great job.

Also, I just re-read your comment about timing. I had a problem of being late when singing to playback. Because I was waiting for the musical phrase. In actuality, the singer leads the music, by a slight fraction. Keep that in mind and you will be surprised.

ronws: In classical singing, the way this 'leading' is accomplished is by being sure that the vowel sound starts as written. If there is a consonant preceeding the vowel, its put 'before the beat'.

Rock on.

Steven - reading through your post again - I have a better understanding of what you meant. I don't have to tweak the EQ on the voice to acheive what you are saying - but reduce the Reverb on the voice a little to bring it forward on the soundstage, and then make the reverb even more spacious to make the room even bigger. I will give that a try.

guitartrek: Yes, that would be one way to do it. I look forward to hearing what that sounds like :)