VideoHere

17 minutes ago, Evan said:

The thing that makes me confused is that they do it with absolutely no strain and can do it live comfortably.

This can be one of two things.  They have a naturally high voice or it is "earned" range, meaning they worked on and developed their voice (over time) to be able to consistently sing in this key.

As Draven suggested, send a sample for someone to listen to you. They can easily assess whether or not you are at a place in your vocal development where you can do a song like this.  You have to be realistic in terms of your current capability.  These notes may or may not be available in your voice...yet.

Also, try to find truly LIVE performances of them, what I call reduce the singers to lowest terms.  I know Nissy (from quick research) had been singing many years and they are older than they appear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTmwXJx_Ag8 

Jon, to really do a song right, you have to get a sheet of lyrics and pick each word apart and see the vowel(s) in each word like I had shown in "Ready for love."

You sing on the vowels, because vowels enable breath flow, where consonants inhibit breath flow and or close down the throat.

The notes you admire are tuned vowels ......

The vowel changes with the pitch.  The higher the notes, the more you have to be concerned with vowel choices.

Pronunciation and intelligibility erodes as you sing higher...

On 4/3/2016 at 11:11 AM, MDEW said:

JonJon, I just had the chance to listen to your sirens. You can even see that the second siren in your first clip is almost perfect. My browser shows the little sound graph. in the second siren there is no low energy spot you just switch to a solid sound.

 I never had trouble producing a pitch between F#4 and E5. My trouble was sounding like Miss Piggy, Ethel Merman or Edith Bunker. When I tried to maintain a masculine sound that is when the Flipping/choking at F#4 happened.

   You have a nice solid tone throughout. Singing lighter is about shedding vocal cord weight and reducing sound volume.

   One thing that people do not think about in terms of light singing and Heavy singing is that if you have a heavy cord closure or more mass to the folds as you ascend and approach the passaggio you reduce vocal mass before shifting. If you are already singing light you do not reduce mass you just increase pressure as you shift. If you are singing light and try to lighten more at the shift you will lose connection and flip to falsetto.

 "Singing lighter is about shedding vocal cord weight and reducing sound volume."

M, You do not have to reduce sound volume.  You do not have to lighten up anything.  You can keep a constant flow of air and intensity, regardless of volume. This shedding weight is accomplished by the vowel...(the throat shape). The vowel choice you design for yourself (no one else) is the thing that let's you up.

Do you really want to be training or singing and having to say to yourself "I'm going up high, time to cut back my voice?"

What does lowering volume accomplish?  All you end up doing is underpowering and loosing connection.

Whether you begin light or heavy you need to still play the instrument.  The voice has to get requistite breath energy at any volume.

Why not purchase a voice evaluation?  It's inexpensive and will help you.  

Dan would be a good one to ask for Stevie Wonder.  I skyped him.

As far as technique goes, he is using mask (more forward placement) with a little touch of nasality....NOT singing nasal...but a higher placement with a higher (but not high) larygeal positioning. He's also splitting his resonance at times and employing twang for bite and cut. Notice how he never lets the sound go back or drop down into the throat. The "ng" exercise is what helps you find the spot to place your voice for this kind of singing.

Then you still need to see how you can sound when you get this placement, because if you get too nasal, it deteriorates.

Now listen carefully to this.  It a $5,000 mic (or more, I'm guessing), he's a breathy falsetto and very light head voice. Listen to his speaking voice.

His voice sounds like the chest voice while my voice sounds like head voice 

Oh? Does it?  What do YOU think you need to fix?

Bottom line: Yes, everybody's different.  Nothing is cut and dry.

An "h" does the opposite for me...the "h" softens (for lack of a better word) a hard attack (onset).  A "sh" can help too.  

You have to stay very open minded, because again, you're not that singer.  A voice teacher's job (seems like you're moving in that direction) is to bring out the best in each individual singer.

You may hear light mass or heavy mass phonation, doesn't mean it actually is.  Just like perceived volume and loudness....

So much has to be figured out by the singer by extensive trial and error.   

Tristan, the reason why the moan or cry makes the transition smoother is because it facillitates consistent adduction. But it can easliy be done incorrectly and lock up the voice or throw things way off balance.

Also, Humming is not just in Neutral in the first example, but curbing as well.  Modes change.... sometimes within a little as a syllable. Some singers are natural curbers.

Rob, Awesome larynx video.

Twang's benefit is analygous to taking a water hose and kinking the hose to produce additional pressure by lessening the opening.

In effect, you've increased the water pressure with no additional corresponding increase in water flow.

As far as her singing, you really cannot tell how much vocal fold mass is engaged simply because you're not her.  You can guess, but when you really get down to it, you cannot tell for sure.

Tristan, going by strict CVT terms curbing is singing with vowels/throat shapes which produce a restrained or covered sound. It's not typically a loud volume mode.

"EH" is not a curbing vowel.

One thing that would help is to hear you so we can get an idea of what you sound like.

Not being a wise guy, just trying to help out.....  

Do you understand what it means?

Do you understand why you need to do it?

This is a helpful video and exercise, but you should have a nice strong middle development work going on as well, because this serves like a launch pad to those higher pitches. Be sure to keep it bratty and don't sing too loudly.

This helped me very much because as you can tell he's not backing off and yet not going overboard.

Don't forget to warm up a bit before you go near this kind of stuff.

Also, the nay exercise is a good one.  The teachers will likely add more.

Kill the negative thinking......it will get you every time.

The mind......it is the voice!!!

If I can suggest a much more successful way to learn to emulate your favorite artists is to obtain live performances.

Try to get a hold of live video performances.

Another one is remembering lyrics..LOL!!! especially as I get older.

Certainly, pursue the song, but be realistic..This ones like carving a statue.  Chip away on it each day...and do other songs less demanding as well.

Elvis, 

Others may not agree, and I say this well-meaningly, but (just my opinion) you simply are not ready to do a song like this, if your goal is to sing it, like he is singing it.

These are the kinds of songs that have to be worked up to.  The requisites you need for songs like this are not there yet.

Strong, consistent support.

Larygeal stability (due to good support).

Ability to manage higher levels of air pressure.

Certainly work on it, but take your time with it.  Don't rush it, because you could very easily pick up some bad habits.

that's a tough song.

you may need to sing that song quite strongly to hold it together, depending on your voice type.

focus the tone forward..... think "ng" playing the role of a glue to hold things together.

your humble opinion didn't sound to humble doc. this doesn't "have" to sound like ian gillan.

You may be right, jonpall. I've never been able to sound like him and I'm okay with that. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that individuals have individual voices. It really doesn't matter what techniques we do, it won't quite match the original. And so, I try to sound like myself, which is not to everyone's liking and I'm okay with that, too. It's like when you sing U2 songs very clean. I do the same thing, in my own way.

And Ronron, I dare you to do this song. Give it a try. Who knows, you might sound more like him than I ever could, and more power to you. I will warn you that this song is not sung quietly. Even if you don't sound like him, who cares? I would rather hear you sound like Ronron. If I want to hear Axl Rose, I have a number of cd's to listen to.

ron, you're about sweet child of mine.

i've been playing around with that song (it's a toughee) and here's my take on how i can best sing it.

although for me it's 1/2 step down on the karaoke machine, lol....sounchoice is a good disc.

a non-cvt explanation:

major twang mandatory

must be totally warmed up before i even go near it

strong breath support mandatory

very wide open throat and very wide open mouth for vowel modifications all over the place, looking for chances to phonate on "ah" (father) and "eh" (egg) wherever possible

when that song gets going it's resonant and a little whiny

is that your set up for it?

Hi,

I recorded this to train my "mixed voice" or my "curbing", or simply - full high notes:

http://www.box.net/shared/59y5nrdleo

...and here's a bonus track to show very similar things:

http://www.box.net/shared/2vxq0jqzok

Although I like raspy singing, I also want to be able to sing clean stuff so this is an example of the latter.

I've been working on getting just the right amount of high and low frequencies in my tone. I don't want it to sound too hooty and not too thin and twangy either. I do want slightly more high frequencies in my tone when I sing high rasp, but here I'm looking for a more balance of overtones. Perhaps you guys can comment on if you think my tone needs more of something or less of something?

Regards,

jonpall.

jonpall, i had to stop by and hear the lou gramm. great job man, and you did it a half step higher!!

folks, i just wanted everyone to know you all sound great but to critique you is just something i'm not comfortable doing. i hope you'll respect my opinion.) i just prefer to hang out at the technique forum. bob

It sounded like analog's version was in curbing/mixed voice and Bob's version was in "metal-like-neutral".

In other words, analog's version had a slight cry to it, so that the basis of the sound was with medium volume and a bit more body weight to it and Bob's version was sung with a very light feel to it and lower core volume, but with an added twang (which actually raised the volume a bit). I think that analog is right that the original tune is in curbing but a fairly light style of curbing. Bob, if I remember correctly, your version of Hot blooded was in curbing.

no, my version of "hot blooded" was in "cult".... as in diffi-cult!! lol!!! man, i gotta get that cvt, just gotta get the cash.

@Bob:

I think you captured Sting's timbre way better than me...but to my ears, Sting "mostly" sings in a Curbed/Mixed voice. Just leans to the lighter side of it.

One other thing to think about is...these days I'm not doing any recording...everything I practice is meant to be performed LIVE. Which, for me, means higher volume AND intensity.

i hear ya buddy. i just played with that spur of the moment to see what developed. i might have added more lean to fatten it up more too. i love george michael's version of this song. i just ordered the karaoke disc...

one day soon i'm gonna splurge for that cvt system.

nice sweet sounding vocal and...

i love that tune as well g

....nicely done as always my freind.

bob