cauthon

I've been practicing again, and have a new song to share... Criticism very welcome, last time I posted this forum taught me a ton! (Vowels still need a lot of work. )

I still have my old mic. I recently discovered software gain in GarageBand, which has allowed me to put off buying a preamp even longer.

http://cl.ly/1J0t1P2S450J

Thanks guys!

I did want to do it in head voice, but I kept having tension. I can do it in head voice now with little issue, unless I've wrung out my voice all day.

It's just a constant battle to expand my head voice comfort zone. I get frustrated at the slow progress but I can do songs now that weren't remotely possible a few months ago, so I know I'm making progress - just much, much more slowly than I would prefer... :)

Way, way better. Almost as if a different singer was singing, except that I recognize the tonality quality of your voice, from before. The pitchiness is gone and I can hear a natural vibrato. It's more subtle than you thought it would be, I imagine.

Thanks! This stuff is blowing my mind, honestly. In the past, you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between me speaking and me singing, pronunciation wise. For humor's sake I tried talking with the same pronunciations I now use while singing, and it sounded ridiculous, even comical. Yet somehow it sounds exactly right while singing, and every singer I've listened to for years I now notice using these vowel sounds.

Is the "IH" sound regarded as OK if it's not held? Some things, for instance "in", seem to sound wrong when I try to pronounce them with anything other than the non-kosher "IH" sound. I hear singers pronounce them with "IH" as well - they just don't hold a note on that word. (So it's sung almost like a consonant.)

Definitely different. I'd still love the regular, soaring vibrato you hear in opera, but I'm sure that will come with (lots of) time and work.

And yes, sing life as L-ah-f. Unless you really want the dipthong at the end. The american pronunciation of the word or letter, "I" is actually a dipthong of ah and ee. So, if you use the dipthong, let the ee at the end be light, transitory, almost imperceptible, fast. Some singers, however, like Dennis DeYoung from Styx are more comfortable on closed vowels like the ee sound. So, he might sing it more like L - ah - ee - ee -f. However, I think you sound strong and steady on the open vowels like ah and eh. And the reason I say eh is because the spelling ay incorporates a dipthong to ee in american English. People here would pronounce the word "say" as s-eh-ee without thinking about it. Better to leave it at the root, eh, unless you really want the dipthong, like you said, for the effect of accent.

Dipthongs, hadn't heard of them before now. Learning a lot about speech.

Yeah, I definitely sound better on open vowels. I've noticed my "EE" is particularly weak. Have to work on that.

In some styles, like country music, the accent becomes more important. For example, Reba McIntire does not sound as redneck when she talks as she does when she sings because the singing is a "style." Kelly Clarkson, her friend and also a local in Texas, speaks with a texan accent but she does not have that accent when she sings. Because her style of music does not use a regional accent. So, she has to keep her vowels clean and reduce the dipthongs.

Another element of style, Reba often dipthongs to oo at the end of a word or phrase. It increases her nasality and and makes the note smaller, more intimate, also a style thingy.

I was actually thinking of country music as an exception when I learned about this vowels thing. Very interesting.

Very, very nice. I admire your vocal agility!

Here's a few seconds of me trying to correct the vowels. It definitely feels more precise, though I botched a couple of them. Habits die hard.

Forgive the 'lays' mistake at the beginning. I would redo it, but my mic is conking out - it's a miracle it kept working long enough to record the 30 second clip.

Going to try your exercises next. Still need to work on "I" like in "life" - needs to me more like "l-AH-ife" rather than "l-AYYY-fe". Still need to work on "IH" like in "still" - probably should be "st-EEE-l" instead of "st-IHHH-l".

You've given me plenty to think about! Funny how regional accents play into it. I always wondered why I would listen to music from Finland and not notice an accent in their singing. The vowels explains it.

http://tinyurl.com/mhrnxzp

Thank you! I really appreciate it.

That actually helps a LOT. Thank you. I was thinking of it far too restrictively.

"Out of MY" actually sounds better, and works, with "M-AH(Hold the ah)-Y" than "MA-YEEEE" like I was doing. Bottom line, was trying to hold a consonant. Doesn't sound so good.

It even makes 'vibrato' much smoother and easier, though I still can't tell if it's actually vibrato. When I force it it definitely is wobble, but what naturally happens when I hold one of the true vowel sounds seems like the real thing, and is hard *not* to do. I may make a separate thread on that later, with an example recording.

Lots of work to do on this! I really appreciate it.

I don't know about Roy from Kamelot but Tarja from Nightwish did take opera lessons, studying at Karlsruhe in Germany between Nightwish tours. I read the history of Nightwish and yes, there was something of a Yoko Ono effect with Tarja's boyfriend/manager, the ability of him to drive a wedge was made easier by the problems in the rest of the band. Miscreant behavior that she should not have had to endure, everyone with their own god-like complex, substance abuse, mental issues. In other words, like most bands.

Yeah, roller coaster ride. Roy Khan leaves before I get a chance to see him live, then Anette leaves Nightwish literally a week before I see them live, after a spat over a concert in my home state. Fun, fun...

When you watch the behind the scenes, you can see the influence Tarja's boyfriend had, and the tension with the rest of the band. It turned very "us vs. them" very quickly. But the fact that they've lost two vocalists over personality problems in the last few years makes me wonder about the dynamic of the whole band, and not just blame it on diva mentality.

Well, you already listed all the problems any one could find in it. Though, I might add, you were pitchy in more places than just the first chorus. The one thing I could hear is that your vowels are not clean. You were speaking more than singing. Get closer to the true vowel sounds, ah, eh, ee, oh, oo. This will clear up a lot of pitchiness issues.

I'm very interested in this concept. I got into singing because I loved a lot of operatic metal bands - Nightwish, Kamelot and the like. Their singers studied opera for years, and I believe opera uses the "true vowels".

In the original version of this song, to my ears, he doesn't use true vowels - though I'm not an expert. Can you confirm whether he does?

So that brings me to my major question - if I learn the 'true' vowels, is that something I can switch between at will, or is it a choice I have to make to learn for life? Also, can they be applied to contemporary music, or will I sing everything sounding like it's opera in terms of vowels?

Interesting that you say that can affect pitch as well. A lot of the pitchiness, now that I think about it, might be attributed to me starting to listen to the backing in headphones while singing a day or two ago - thus not hearing my voice at all while singing. It took away some of my tension on high notes, but apparently affected my pitch as well. I'll probably go back to the backing in headphones with only one ear of them on.

I also have to fight the habit to introduce this fake vibrato that's really just vocal wobble. I tend to induce it without even consciously thinking about it, and it can throw me off pitch at times. When I started singing I had the world's worst caprino goat-cackle fake vibrato, now I have this. Once in awhile true vibrato creeps into my singing, but then it's gone, and I have no idea how or why. Someday...

As far as timing, anticipate the note, don't wait for it. If you wait for it, you are a microsecond too late.

"Anticipating the notes" is something my teacher goes over a lot with me. Real sticking point.

And I don't like most karaoke tracks because the backing vocals are usually whatever the recording engineer thought should go there and they are usually autotuned.

Hate that. Wish I'd bought it on karaoke-version so I could remove the backing vocals, but I bought it on Amazon. Oh well.

But I do like the tone of your voice, especially when you do that deep "ole man river" resonance. That is cool.

Thanks! I love doing low notes, really where I thrive. Comparatively little of the music I like uses much of the low end of chest voice, so I'm working on beefing up my head voice.

Here's another cover. I don't usually do songs with strong choruses, so I'm trying to strengthen my tone there.

I know I was off-key in the first chorus (the backing I have has a backing singer in the chorus, and he's doing a harmony - so I started to veer towards his notes instead of mine. Corrected it from then on.) My voice also cracks once on a really high note at the end. Various timing issues abound.

Please let me know what you think and/or suggestions for improvement!

http://tinyurl.com/k4tpc9l

Thank you! You're right, I don't know why I tend to drop off at the end of long notes - thanks for pointing it out. I'll definitely work on that. I do remember feeling like I was tripping on some of the ends of notes - I think I was trying to draw out the consonants instead of the vowels. Still very much a newbie.

I can do it without falsetto, but my larynx tends to raise and I sound whiny. I need to work on being comfortable at higher notes.

I love Kamelot, huge fan of them. Since you're also a fan, even though it's not to the point I want it to be at, I thought I'd post a recording of Abandoned I made the same night. Got pitchy at the end when I forgot what part of the song I was in and thus which variant of that verse to sing. The high notes are also super sketchy.

http://f.cl.ly/items/113M3a1w2I132w1M2j3D/Abandoned.m4a

Please let me know what you think. I'm trying to expand my head voice range. I'm on your right, the original is on your left.

I'm especially trying to figure out what to do with my falsetto.

Thanks

http://f.cl.ly/items/2e3z2R142A3o1A1x2U0z/Glory.m4a

I've done a cover of "Rewind" by Poets of the Fall, a great rock band from Finland. Please let me know what you think and what I should improve on!

You'll want to use headphones - my voice is in your right ear, and the original is in your left.

Thanks for the listen!

http://cl.ly/1g1F3D1u0H43

There's almost too much to respond to here! I really appreciate the feedback you guys have given me.

A bit pitchy in places, and there are some areas that need need better support. The enitre chorus needs a lot work. You start out pretty powerful with it, then for some reason, kinda lose it.

Yeah, I lost the plot and went off-pitch a couple times thinking I was in the final chorus when I was in the second one, etc. I think I lose power because I only just got to the point where I could actually sing the chorus without it coming out as little more than a squeek, or changing up to full head voice. As such in this recording I was fighting just to stay up there and manage my breathing, and not comfortable enough to focus on sounding good.

1. Breathing

For some reason I have trouble managing my breathing when it comes to the chorus. I have a feeling I'm using far too much air to accomplish what I am in the chorus. Need to focus more on resonance and less on raw wind power perhaps...?

2. Pitch

I think the two main areas were me getting lazy on the sudden changes sometimes (re-SOUND, promising HEART), and when I lost the plot and forgot which chorus I was in.

3. Dynamics

Had to look this one up.

4. FEELING - you have to sing this song, and thousands of songs like this, like you wote it. There is no soul in yours (yet). Practice Practice Practice.

Yes, this is absolutely a problem I've been having. I'm not entirely sure how to solve it other than to try to immerse myself in the song. I try picturing myself in rural Ireland looking out at the sea, but it doesn't always work. Do you have any tips for how to get the feeling right?

Also, this song is NOT easy. The entire chorus is, at least for me, hovering right around my vocal break. It is hard for me to not try to shout my way through it.

Yeah, the chorus was tough to get to the point where it worked at all. Many miserable squeeking noises and curses were uttered in the process of learning that.

Hey, I whipped off my version of this, which may help you with the breathing part. You can hear almost every time I took a breath. Also, I am just getting over Bronchitis, so don't expect this to be amazingly awesome lol.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single … p;newref=1

Very, very nice. I really like how you did this, especially the final chorus. There's a lot I could learn from you there, the main things that stand out to me are just the relaxation of your voice, the 'agility' of your voice (tone changes are light, not burdened), and how the vibrato is ever-present in a good way during the chorus.

True vibrato is something I only just started to be able to do a couple weeks ago, to get my voice relaxed enough to do it. It's still hit or miss, but overall, the harder I try the worse it is - I just have to have zero tension for it to work. I've always sung to myself once in awhile because it was something I enjoyed doing, but I've only been seriously working on improving my singing and taking lessons for a couple months or so. A year or so before that I had a horrible goat-operating-a-machine-gun-style fake vibrato that just sounded terrible. Yours seems relaxed enough to do it throughout the chorus, which I'm not entirely sure how to do. The chorus at this point is like I'm fighting just to keep my head above water. I have a feeling once I get better, I'll be relaxed enough in it to do that. Any tips there?

If you haven't heard it, here's the live version of the song. It sounds even more like you in the vibrato and power departments.

I have to ask, where did you find the karaoke track for this? I looked but came up empty-handed.

I've enjoyed Roy Khan's singing immensely for years, and have begun learning to sing. I'm enjoying covering old Kamelot songs. I know I ran out of breath at one point, feedback would be much appreciated on the rest of it. Thanks!

Note: Use headphones - I am in your right ear, the original is in your left.

http://cl.ly/153A0s2G060v