slstone

You're welcome bro. having mixed a lot of music myself, I cringe at my own voice when its too loud. an easier way to do it is to record your high parts on a separate track.

Then you can edit all the high parts at once giving them consistency. The trick is that since we push more air to reach higher notes, our volume output tends to be more, thus

making them much louder than lower parts. Also, when on separate tracks, it makes it easier if you need to record a part over. You just end up doing that part and not the whole song over and over, if its all recorded on one track. It is time consuming, but it pays off in the long run. Anyway, glad to help.

Hey bro, your mixing skills are getting better. Nice use of chorus. Only advice is on your mix, when you hit the high notes, edit them to lower the volume a little(I don't know if your DAW will allow you to edit just those parts without affecting the whole track). That way, they are no louder than any other note. They are just a little hot in the mix.

This was the very first Dio album I ever bought. Brings back some good memories. I too am working on a Dio song. 

I think you mean Rich(Williams). Dave(Hope) was the bass player.

I don't think there is going to be a separate section for showcasing. For one thing, Review is just that. Second, even if a song was in a "showcase" section, people would still comment and critique. So, you get it all in one section. Unless you are trying to say the showcase section would be free of critique, which won't happen. There are channels on youtube of guys sharing their misgivings about movies, songs, artists, etcetera, when no one asked them to do it.

 

Changing my thinking, that is what I do, every day, and not for the approval of others or for someone to say "good boy" and scratch behind my ear. It's because it's the right thing to do. And I am not getting younger and wasting energy is just that, wasting energy. But what has helped me is that I truly realize how much I don't know, how easy it is for someone to misunderstand what I mean.

 

I don't have to be an expert. For the time and energy I have, what I need to do is sing well on songs that fit my style and expression and record them well. Leave the being expert thingy to others. And here is the important part, for me. When someone wants to present themselves as more full of knowledge or having a superior perspective, I don't need to tilt at that windmill, to borrow from Man of La Mancha. I let that other person be the expert, the sage on high, the one handing out "good boy." That's a heavy responsibility, right there, being a god. Pay stinks, the hours are long, and you eventually get replaced by another god.

 

Just the same, to get back to perspective in receiving critique. What if a person gives criticism and they are not as knowledgable or experienced or whatever qualifiers we might impose before we "respect" his or her opinion? Doesn't matter. You don't choose the audience. If you play in public, anyone could happen by, with no experience to a lot of experience. A person who doesn't know a lot or may not be an accomplished singer, himself, says, in so many words, "I don't like it." That's fair, because it is an opinion, and it is up to you, the performer, as to how you process that information.

 

Reviews that would probably hurt feelings, it never stopped anyone else. Most of the singers here are not pro, do not have literally a studio fit with recording gear, in a studio they have built themselves. Some are just lucky to have a cellphone they can record on.

 

Harsh reviews of performances every one else liked. It has happened before. I have done a few songs that got applause from almost everyone and one person or another would come in and "rip it to shreds," so to speak. It happens and I have survived. Because I don't take it personally, which has been a personal growth thing, for me.

 

On the other hand, the value of this forum is so that singers can get reviews from fellow singers. They don't have to pay for a review. And even though I have suggested to someone that they should record something pro and release it, that doesn't mean they should. Let's say that I wrote something I wanted to release. I would just go to a producer and get it produced. A producer who has done it before and can list actually released sales. And most likely what he would tell me or advise me is different than what we talk about, here.

 

I think I mentioned it before but I think it is also important, when giving a review, if someone doesn't like what I said, defensiveness on my part will still not help anything. Where I might say, this is not the song for you, or sing it a different way, or, you were off-pitch. And they say, "well, fine, but I am going to do it anyway."

 

Cool, go on and have a happy life. I don't have to be an expert or appreciated as one just because I gave a review. 

 

Or, I give a review and someone else has a difference of opinion and makes a point of disagreeing with my opinion? Also fine. I don't have to be an expert. I don't have a dog in that fight.

 

But I do want applause, as does anyone else, when I sing. Sometimes, I get it, sometimes, not. And the world still spins.

See what I mean? a few words made you very defensive.

Yes I know everyone doesn't have a studio. Do you think mine was just given to me? Of course not. I worked very hard for a long time to acquire and build it, the same as my skill set.

As far as your response to people taking critique, I think yes they should listen to pros. You mention Simon Cowell. Many people have said to him, "if you think singing is so easy, you get up here and do it." And he doesn't. The record label pays him millions of dollars to critique others. They don't pay him to sing.

The point I am getting at is, do people post here because they do want the feedback, to become better? or is it just a place to post their music?

If they are here because they genuinely do want to get better, then it helps when constructive critique is given by someone knowledgeable in the business.

By the tone of your post, people only post here for an audience and nothing more. After all, if someone critiques, and the posting person says, "I don't care what you say, I am going to do it my way anyway", then nobody progresses, and they want nothing more than to showcase their stuff. By the way, were I to post more critiques myself, I base it solely on the skills of the vocalist, not the quality of the recording.

However, I am glad you are passionate about what you feel, but I sense a little animosity in that last post. Just an observation.

And the couple of slams you made there about my having my studio, etc., no big deal, as the main point of this discussion is for people to not be

thin skinned when it comes to what other people say.

Re-reading this thread and thought I would throw some thoughts in.

As most here know, it's not often that I give a review, and my bro, ronws, points out

very effectively the defensive stance most people take.

I very much agree with the tough love approach. Why?

Most people post here to get feedback on where to improve.

It is nice when people accept the advice and use it to better themselves.

There are a few who have come a long way in improving over the last

few years...(Igor)...and there are those who still need a lot of work.

I am a pro. I have spent many years honing my musical skills to write and play,

learning to record and mix(not just my own album, but for others whom I have

recorded and mixed in my studio). I listen to a lot of people, both recorded and live

performances. I have also spent years developing pitch and technique.

I would give honest reviews for people, but I think I would probably make a few

enemies in the process. I have seen some posts here, that I thought were really

bad, but everyone who commented thought it sounded great. So sometimes I wonder

if I am listening with the wrong ears...lol, or is everyone else not hearing what I am hearing?

I think personally, I could help a few people if I gave reviews, but sometimes people need

a little more pointed advice at which point they look at you/me and say, "Well, what makes

you such an expert?"

And bro, at least you are honest enough to admit to your own defensiveness, i.e. our collaboration.

I see that you are trying to change your thinking in that regard, which shows we can all make

progress in becoming better at all we do.

Now if you don't want critique, then maybe we need a place here in the forum for showcasing

material rather than posting for critique. That would be my suggestion for the day to improve

the forum.

Nice to see somebody covering some good ole Blackie Lawless. He never got much credit as a vocalist, either.

Or one can commission me to record music for them...

Normally, I don't post in regards to other's performances on songs, But this time I feel like I have to. Maybe I will start. Everyone knows I generally don't post critiques, as some people get their feelings hurt if you post less than stellar comments. That being said, I feel the need to comment on this one.

This was absolutely outstanding. Many have seen me post comments about technique and waiting to post a song until you have given it your all.

In other words, performing your absolute best, then posting it.

From pitch to timing to execution, etc., this was awesome.

Kind of fond of your acoustic version of Living on a Prayer as well...

1st time I have ever heard an Evergrey cover. I've been a fan since 'A Touch of Blessing". As a matter of fact, musically speaking, it was my inspiration for the music in my title track of my album, 'Book of Shadows". Also, I believe Evergrey are from Sweden. This almost makes me want to break my own rule and comment on it..

Interesting...nobody has commented yet.

For verily I say unto thee, those who live by the sword shall also die by the sword.

Pride goeth before a fall.

(both from the KJV of the Holy Bible)

Not just words for others but words for myself, as well.

A review that is mostly good with suggestions or observations that may or may not be used, as seen fit. The audience hears what it will hear, from it's own perspective, good or bad.

In another thread about morning voice, someone linked in an interview of Mike Patton in Chile. I suggest listening to the entire interview, not just the suggested marker of 21:55.

In a nutshell, there is Patton the singer. From Mr. Bungle to Faith No More to Mondo Cane and other projects and collaberations. Then there is the private Mr Patton, family man, boring, crazy, inspired, genious, contrarian, respectful and congenial. And he knows none of that matters. Each member of the audience takes away their own meaning, something you cannot always control, no matter what your intention.

In my own experience, there are times when I have recorded something, first and only take in existence, total cold shot and people liked it.

Another time on another song, literally 20 attempts at recording over two days 3rd or 4th full recording having just the phrasing I was looking for, only to have others to say it was too clean and precise.

And all points in between. Usually not agreeing where I was pitchy. They heard it in one place that I could not hear it, yet, in other, I can hear myself go flat and no one caught it. Who's right and who's wrong? Or, both? Is this group of us peers (fellow singers) an "average" audience? Not exactly, though any average audience might contain a few of us "serious" singers. I consider myself a singer but when my wife and I got to see the Fab Four at the Majestic Theater, I was just another fan, though, of course, I knew every song and sang along. Yet, hearing minor details, like an acoustic guitar with one string slightly out of tune. It didn't hurt the performance but it did not escape my attention, either.

In the long run, is it important? Another take might be flawless. Or not. A recording engineer or producer will want a few takes because they know something that not a lot of singers know, strangely enough. You never sing the same way twice.

So, is that what we are doing here? Making studio-perfect recordings? Where the recording and editing is just as much a part of the performance as the actual singing? If that is all we have to hear of you, is it too easy to assume that you have a problem? You get one, maybe two notes that sound a little funny and singing it, again, live in front of people, you might not have those.

I am certainly guilty of less than studio perfect recording and editing. So, I am not slinging arrows of outrageous fortune at anyone, no more than myself.

This is why I say, if you, meaning anyone, consider yourself to be a serious singer, even if you are just working on bettering your skills, take the time to make it your best, rather than just recording something quickly, just so you can say you posted. As many people know, I don't critique anyone here. The reason for that is because I am very honest in my opinion, just ask my brother, ronws. There are quite a few here whose singing I like, and quite a few who need a lot of work. And I've noticed people here and there who are very defensive and get their feelings hurt easily when someone gives a Simon Cowell type of review. That's why I say that if you put more effort into your recordings, you might do better. If it takes 20 takes, then so be it.

When I recorded my CD, I guarantee you I did not record a song in one day. I spent 5 years, between recording and mixing. All in all I probably took 2 years just for recording. I would spend weeks on one song. My thought was, if I am going to post my music, my singing publicly, I wanted people to hear my absolute best performance, even if that meant taking extra time to work on it.

I know I will probably get slammed by others for my opinions, but for me, good enough is not good enough. To me, only the wow factor is good enough. I am my own worst critic, and I can't tell how you many times I cringed listening to myself, then re-recording something until it was right.

So all I am really saying is that if you take singing seriously, put everything you have into it.

I'm gathering, from the hint, Mr. Brownstone?

I hear some Dio in there...

Just a little treat if you care to listen.

Most here know of my thing for prog metal. But a few years back, my lovely wife, Debra, wrote a little ditty.

I rehashed the words a little into more of a music format and wrote the music for it.

A musician friend of mine and I worked together on recording it at his home studio.

The lyrics reflected my life at the time, as I used to be a long haul truck driver.

The link below will take you to my website where you can find this song as well as a few others.

"Long Road Home" by S.L. Stone

Drums, Acoustic Guitar and Electric Guitar: Rob Pepin

Keyboards, Bass and all Vocals: S.L. Stone

http://www.slstonemusic.com/smtv.html

p.s. It's been a while since this was recorded.

p.p.s If any of you remember garageband.com, this song won song of the week back in April 2006 and was featured on the front page of the country genre.

p.p.p.s One little error, my wife did not write this one, she wrote JD on Ice, which can also be found at this link. I wrote this one all the way through....dang brain cramps at it again...

First 2 maiden songs I learned way back were 2 minutes to midnight and hallowed be thy name...

It's their shortest song(time wise).

I would always suggest some Nightwish...

nobody has commented yet...hmmm...don't know why AIC was referred to as grunge. I don't like grunge. I always thought of AIC as mainstream rock, then and now. Tasty guitar lines, astronomical vocals. Too bad Lane Staley didn't live longer. The guy had unbelievable technique and control. Might be time for an AIC challenge....

On the way home today, I heard "You Never Even Called Me by My Name" and thought it would be a good one because it was a live version duet between David Allan Coe and, I think, Jerry Jeff Walker.

Funny you should mention this one. I've been singing this one to my wife since the day we met, lol. I remember hearing it many times on the radio when I was a kid. I should do a metal version...crank it up a bit.

p.s. I usually do it with an exaggerated southern twang which is funny since I have been living in New England for the past 21 years.

It would have been easier if I could have recorded on Audacity with seperate tracks and sent Ronws the Project file. We could have added tracks as needed and a few alternate leads/harmonies to choose from. He would have had an easier time of mixing also. One bad thing aboout that is Good enough is never good enough and one 3 minute song can end up taking months.

I do not have an audio interface or a microphone that will connect to the computer and still give a decent sound so I could not use the computer for the initial recording.

I guess it is time to invest some money into this little hobby of mine.

It took me 5 years to record and mix my CD, so a few months is a piece of cake, lol. And nice to see someone else posting my philosophy, that some others took a huge issue with a while back, and that is, that good enough isn't good enough. I have always said that when you settle for mediocrity, it turns out to be crap.

For me, only the wow factor is "good enough".

To me, it's really obvious when people spend very little time on a project. Especially if they post a justifier for how crappy it came out (I was sick when I recorded it, I only had time to do one take, my(fill in the blank) broke.etc.)

In my opinion, there is no excuse for a crappy posting. Wait until your better to record, re record when you have more time, etc. Don't post, just so you can say you posted a song.

When I used to have band mates together, I had another guitar player. Some nights, during practice, he would say he wrote 20 songs, Which translated to 2 or 3 riffs(to me writing a songs is writing all parts for all instruments).

For me to be impressed is when someone actually takes the time to put into the song, whether cover or original, and puts in the effort, to do their absolute best, before posting. When recording my CD, I lost count on how many takes I did for some songs. Not every day is a good recording day.

To me, when you try to whip it out quickly just to have something to post, means you really didn't care enough about it to put your best effort.

I know I am going to catch some crap for this post, but this is my take on things. We all have the right to our opinions, and these are mine.

Using Audacity but with better wisdom about it. Namely, first thing, adjusting the mic input level in that DAW to about 60 - 65 percent. Aiming for a brief bump into yellow on the high notes. "burned" a track fiddling with that. As in, finally getting it through my thick head that in digital input, you want to aim no higher than - 3 dB. It is far easier and preferrable to raise volume on a quiet and clean track than to beat my head against a brick wall to fix clipping and distortion on a crappy input scheme.

I believe I said something like this a while back about not being able to fix a distorted or otherwise compromised track. That's also another reason I suggested recording multiple parts on separate tracks. If you have the need to fix a phrase or 2, you don't have to sing the entire song again, just to fix a small part. Not many people are good at "punching in" a replacement track.

You can always raise gain or amplitude when mixing afterward. It's to bad you're having trouble with Cubase. It is capable of a lot.

Thanks, so much, Scott. You could have said I sang like warmed-over doggy doo-doo but just having you notice an improvement in my recording and editing skills is big enough.

MDEW recorded the main guitar part and I could do no better and his had the right meter to it. I played the guitar solo in the middle.

And ya'll would be so proud of me. We hatched this idea some time ago and didn't just rush willy-nilly to post. Tried a few different recordings. As best we could manage our recording and editing process through emails, living several states apart.

As I have said before, I only comment about techniques and equipment and so forth. I do not comment on people's performance and singing, etc...

Mixing skills are improving. Very clean recording.

"Have You Ever Seen the Rain?" By Creedence Clearwater Revival, vocals by Bay Harbor Butcher, harmony by ronws

Just as a note, bro, the reason people are discussing the backup vocals is because in the original post, you mentioned your part was harmony, not backup. Anyway, just clarifying...