Draven Grey

I will jump in, since I have a bit of time. I used to have a Brasilian (Portuguese) student who sounded just like you.

To note, you're not singing in the above example, rather you're speaking the lyrics - sometimes in pitch, but still speaking. Arnaldo sings the song in the same octave range, but lifts his voice to the soft palate and forward. Singing vowels don't resonate in the same placement that speech vowels do. Here's a good place to start:

You need to be training. Whether with The Four Pillars of Singing, online lessons with me, one of the other voice coaches here, or, depending on where you're at in Brasil, get in touch with my friend Dan Vasc for in-person lessons.

You'll never be paid to sing, and you don't have a set plan (or choosing not to make one)? To me, that says you're not serious about singing. Learning to sing, perhaps, but not to the point you want to make a career out of it. You're choosing not to do so, for whatever reason that may be.

It's when someone says they're super serious, want to make a living/career out of it, and are willing to do whatever it takes, and then complain when it costs money for a teacher's time (especially a good teacher with proven results within their goal set), that teachers get frustrated like we talked about above.

There are great course out there that cover the material you mention, and don't cost a student thousands per year. Not everyone learns that way. There are great software trainers too, but I'm not yet convinced that one could replace a good teacher. Then there are those students who are passionate about their voice, train consistently, seek out the best courses, and really only need a teacher for a few lessons, to help them tweak a few things.

But to say you're serious about singing and only looking for free tips, there's a disconnect.

I experienced a lot of the same when I coached bands for a couple of decades. It's teh same all acrosst he world. I watched many bands and artists complain about spending money on coaching that taught them, step by step, how to make money at their craft, and yet would spend thousands of dollars on gear without flinching.

The problem with making a course that is full of useful and thorough information for everyone is that it's more than some people need and still not quite enough for others' needs. That's why having a coach to walk you through it can be so important.

When someone wants the entrie chorus to revolve around only what they want for themsleves, then they don't want a course, they want private coaching. Private coaching takes a lot more personal focused effort, and thus costs lot more. This course is exhaustive, comprehensive, and complete, not created for you specifically. Creating the impression that you are self-centered is a good way to get coaches to not want to work with you. To publicly (and completely unsolicited) proclaim how the course should be changed in your favor is short-sighted, small-minded, and self-centered. You're better than that. See the bigger picture.

That approach is also a good way to get fired by your teacher. It says that you don't want to learn and train, rather that you want to complain, be spoon fed, and babysat. Again, you're better than that.

If you're concerned about getting the training you signed up for, then go to the training part of your course rather than spend your time going through every single thing on the informational side and then complaining that you're wasting your time with something you chose to do and no one forced you to do. If you think you don't need the talk track and thorough information on certain topics, even though others do, then don't watch those videos. Read over the text underneath them to see if you think it will be helpful to dive deeper.

If you simply want to critique instead of ask quesions for clarification, then feel free to sod off. You're not going to get much out of anything with that attitude or self-centered approach. If you want to learn, then ask questions, seek to understand, and know that you are part of a large community of people that are at all different levels of learning and understanding and all willing to help each other.

Now, if Robert asked you for your feedback on such things, because he trusts you as experienced in coaching vocals or putting together training courses, then by all means, give him feedback. I don't think that was the case. What you're asking for is essentially Youtube, which is wide open to self-important freeloaders, trolls, and self-proclaimed experts on topics they know nothing about. Again, asking for clarification and the "why" behind the way things are, especially when wanting to learn from someone much more experieenced than you, will get you a lot further than criticism, especially cristicism based upon the world revolving around you.

As JonJon said, semantics are a HUGE deal. It can get confusing very fast when everyone is using different terminology and you don't know how to translate it quickly.

Having created and run my own courses, I think opening up the course for feedback in that way could quickly become a nightmare. You've seen Youtube, right? A better feedback system is in both the results the students get, and how many questions they ask, showing if they understand the material or not.

In the case of the mixed voice video, that's a major point of contention and misunderstanding in the singer community, even among teachers. That videos gave a solid explanation of what mxied voice actually is, made for people from those who  have no clue, to those that would argue. For those that simply want an explanation, sure, it could've been cut down. You can even quickly read over the text beneath it instead. But for those who think they know differently, a much mroe htorough explanation is needed. Half of teaching singing to a new student is dispelling myths, misconcepttions, and years of habits that are either wrong or horribly misunderstood.

Do you mean Tracking or Track & Release? That would be nasal buzzing on M, N, or NG. Or in the case of what we train with the most, M, which is humming and buzzing the lips. You would still seal the lips. What's different is the up and forward  resonance that makes the lips and sometimes teeth buzz/vibrate/tickle. That's a feeling you want even on higher notes, where the shape of your embouchure becomes important to keep a good lip buzz ( a hotizontal embouchure, even with the lips closed).

I get that every once and a while too. Usually because I'm not logged in. That's also under the "My Account" tab. It can look like you're logged in when you're not. The best waya to know you're not is when you see what you just posted. I hope that's all it is.

You need a new login. @Robert Lunte?

I admit that TFPOS can seem rather daunting. Have you gone into the My Account > My Training side of things? "My Course" alone is difficult to build your own routine from without guidance. It's an incredible resource once you know it though. One of the first links under "My Training" ("Training Workflow Guide") will give you several workflows to choose from, so you know how to quickly put the coursework into a training routine. I always thought of the course side of it as the in-depth study, whereas the training side is where you learn how to implement it as training.

Consider online lesons too. It will open up a lot more options for finding someone who really knows there stuff, how to teach it, and meshes well with you. I have private students all over the world, as does Robert.

Advice: Start training. You say you can't afford it, but $20/mo is next to nothing for great training like The Four Pillars of Singing. You're not singing in the above post. You're talking with a bit of rhythm and some different pitches now and then. If you want to sing, then put time, effort, and money into learning how.

With proper placement, you should be able to hold your nose and get the same sound as without holding it. Rhinitis and a deviated septum really doesn't change much besides having to manage allergy symptoms a bit more closely. You're not lifting the voice properly, likely singing a lot from the throat with more speech-like vowels. The harder you push, the more you're shouting more than singing. I address that in my first Singing Basics video.

If you want to build lung capacity get a cocktail straw. Breath in a low as possible (lower back, not shoulders), expanding your lower ribcage. Then, blow the entire breath out through the straw as hard as you can do without any pain. After a week, you'll start to notice you can do it a lot longer than when you started. As with the straw exercise, you can do this multiple times a day.

You'll also notice some big differences in general after using the straw exercise for a while, which I describe in my warmups video. That one is all about learning to relax, get good glottal closure, balance air-pressure, and hold proper resonant placement for the pitch.

Are you training with anyone or any particular system? I too have  rhinitis and a deviated septum, but have been singing professionally for 27 years. The problems you describe sound more like lack of proper placement and support. The videos linked below can help, but won't be nearly as effective as having a good coach, solid course of study, or both, like in The Four Pillars of Singing.

Check these out, and let me know if you have questions: http://rocksinginglessons.com/videos/

Until you can afford singing lessons, be careful about simply getting tips from Youtube and the like. However, if that's all you have, then make sure they are reputable teachers. The first video on my Rock Singing Lessons playlist can help, as can any of Robert Lunte's videos:

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheDravenGrey

https://www.youtube.com/user/roblunte

4 hours ago, SwedishSinger said:

In my ears it sounds good

Didn't you just say tat you weren't sure if it sounded good? If you don't want advice, then why did you post? However, if you're willing to learn, I've taught for years, and the advice I gave you is exactly what you need to improve your high C. What do you mean when you say you've "begun training on that high C"? Are you taking lessons, and going through specific exercise routines proven to help you reach your goal? Or are you doing this by trial and error? The latter isn't training, But the former, like getting someone experienced and who has a reputation for getting results to walk you through exercises for the advice I gave you, is training.

It doesn't sound good until those concerns go away ("strain", "difficult", "try not to..."). Start learning how to lean into your head voice resonance more, and slowly turning on the TA muscles as a separate thing. Until you can turn on your TA muscles less than full strength, and hold a head voice position/configuration while doing it, you're simply yelling. Appoggio exercises can also help.

You're very pitchy in general, and your resonant placement is completely incorrect. Look into eartraining for vocals. There are many voice apps that will play a pitch or interval and then let you try to match it. Also, humming into a pitch wheel can help you match pitch as well. Winging in pitch is a listening skill, more than it is  coordination or strength like the rest of singing. 

You head voice sounds off because of resonant placement being in the throat vs being in the soft palate. Hold a finger to your bottom lip and try to sing up and over it. This usually will point your vowels up into the soft palate and get you out of your throat. Also, start humming and buzzing your lips through songs 2/3 the time, instead of just singing them. It will help you get used to a better placement of you voice, among other things good for singing.

Keep taking lessons. Get them to show you how to place your resonance and vowels better for singing, and give you exercises specifically meant for learning to sing in pitch.

1 hour ago, Mike Green said:

when I say "training", I am referring to the muscles I use while singing, I dont have a vocal instructor/teacher. I am afraid that i may end up forming really bad vocal habits if I "train" or practice singing the wrong way. Im not sure if I am using my voice the wrong or right way when signing, last thing i need is for my vocals to get adapted to singing in a horrible manner.

 

 

If you practice the wrong way, you will definitely develop bad habits. That's not to say that you can't learn good habits too, but trial and error is a very ineffective way to learn. Training is different than practicing.  In training, you follow a training regiment that gets you to the results you want i(using both strength and coordination) with tried and proven routines/exercises.

Two things:

1. The examples you gave are not complete. The first sample has no voice. But it really doesn't matter because...
2. You're singing from your throat, rather than the soft palate. The following video can help, but a short youtube video will fall drastically short of what training can do for you. If you truly want to learn to sing, The Four Pillars of Singing will be the best purchase you've ever made.

You can sing in pitch, and that's a big one! You ask if you should continue practicing. Practicing what? If you practice bad habits, you reinformce bad habits. If you practice good techniques, you reinforce good techniques. If you practice guesswork, you reinforce guesswork (which is usually full of bad habits). You need to train if you truly want to get better. Check out The Four Pillars of Singing. It not only gives you a complete and comprehensive course of study, it also explains why you're doing each thing.

Your placement, tension, choice of muscle groups for different things, breath support, and and air pressure balance, are all off. Here's a good start. Just know that it only scratches the surface, give you a basic feel for things, and gets you pointed in the right direction. You won't learn solid technique from short YouTube videos. 

58 minutes ago, MDEW said:

Thanks Draven.

     Draven is a real coach, his advice should be taken over mine. He can help guide you to proper coordinations and alleviate tensions.

    I can only tell you what I have to do to create the sound I am hearing. In this case I am literally closing the throat,keeping it closed  and pushing the breath through it to make that sound.

     With the proper breath control and placement, it is not necessary to use muscular  effort in the throat to maintain pitch and tone. 

You were hearing the right things! I'm merely addressing the root of it.

What MDEW is hearing as compression, I'm hearing as singing in the throat too much. Similar results, until you try to lighten compression and then the voice suddenly gets super airy/breathy. What he's hearing as out of control vibrato, I'm hearing as not being able to stablize the notes and overcompensating with more vibrato. You need better resonant placement and proper breath support, so that the voice will resonate better in the soft palate and have the support underneath to better stabilize, cause better cord closure, and add to the resonance. 

To get an understanding and feel for what I mean by better breath support, try to make a loud "hooah" sound while pushing only from your diaphragm. That lock down of your upper abs is what you want to feel when you sing. When singing softly, it's a subtle feeling. As you get louder, it can greatly intensify. This is also the beginnings of a technique called appoggio, which means "to lean" the voice. Think of it as a leaning forward into your diaphragm.

For better resonant placement and getting your voice out of your throat, place a finger on your bottom lip (maybe just under) and try to sing up and over your finger. If you're focused only on the breath support and the pressure caused by that support going up and over your finger, you'll have a much better feel for what I'm trying to say.

Here's a much more in depth explanation:

Do you have something with less autotuning on your voice? It's hard to hear your technique for the pitch correction. There are other ways to achieve a similar effect, but many years as a recording engineer, it's rare to hear a voice without very little variation that doesn't have pitch correction or a massive amount of other effects to achieve the same sound. Sadly, it makes it almost impossible to analyze your voice as a coach.

1 hour ago, Jarom said:

I'm not really having any vocal issues but I do have issues performing it at live shows due to drummers not knowing how to play the song on the drums and people not able to sing the backing vocals. I've thought about using a minus track but that might seem to cheesy.

 

Having a well-rehearsed band definitely makes a difference! How are you arranging a band live currently? Backing tracks can definitely make a huge difference too, but, as you said, can come across a bit cheesy. However, it's all in how you do them.

My drummer always plays to a click, along with backing tracks. But teh backing tracks are just that, backing. We try to make sure anything that stands out is being played/sang live (even if along with the backing). For instance, we have 3 or 4 guitar parts, but 1 guitarist. He chooses the most prominent guitar part to play live. Bacling vocals also have 3 to 4 parts, but someone is always singing along with them. Keyboards are on backing tracks unless there's a prominent piano part of synth lead.

Another way I've seen it done is making a spectacle of having a backing track. I've seen the lead singer of a punk band do a solo performance on acoustic guitar. He set up a stool next to him with a mic'ed tape recorder. Pressing play gave him a light rhythm part and backing vocals, and everyone loved it. On a bigger scale, Trent reznor did the same when he performed on piano. All his beats and strings were on a boom box, placed on top of the piano.

In a band setting, I've mostly seen it done with vocals and keys, even on a pro level. Tesseeract's last singer, Ashe,  had very lush harmonies, but no one else was singing. Van Halen did an entire tour without a keyboardist, only keys on backing. Granted, one screw up on their song Jump, and it went viral in a bad way. The backing tracks were out of key. I've also seen some big label guys have people on stage with them faking it. Sadly, it was obvious.

The point is, backing tracks can work, if you find other ways to make the performance interesting and don't try to pretend it's live.

Like we've said before, you have a VERY particular style. Very unique and pretty damn cool. On the top end, your voice is reminiscent of Robert Smith. Is there something in particular you feel you're struggling with in this song, or something about your voice you would like to work on?

I'm, unsurprisingly, 100% in agreement with Robert. I adore your voice. Absolutely incredible.

For those low notes, it might be worth attempting a few things to stabilize:

1. Bring the voice more forward, edging, harsher, and then open to more air, which naturally modifies to a more curbing position.
2. Dampen the larynx a bit more to taste, while adding slightly more breath support and locking down on the diaphragm.
3. Do tuning exercises downward. This has been incredbly helpful with my female students who want to sing lower.  Start with tuning slides E4 to A3, working your way down in half steps (D#4 to G#3, D4 to G3, etc). The main point is tuning as your voice and pitch moves. By tuning, I mean paying very close attention to a well balanced placement, musculature, support, and anchoring.

For the higher notes, do you feel relaxed or like you're pushing? It sounds great, but I know that sound can be produced by either pushing a LOT of air/volume, or by relaxing completely and adjusting tiny things (like vocal twang and jaw placement) to get the same sound color. I've blown out my voice before from pushing too hard. I would hate to see that happen to you.

You honestly won't know for sure until you train. While it's impressive that you're singing in whistle register, the rest of what you're singing is not placed well, and therefore is not a proper representation of what you're truly currently capable of. Also fach classification is meant for classical, opera, and choral, so they can quickly put you into a pre-written part. If you're learning for contemporary voice, it doesn't matter. Any way about it, you nbeed to be training, either through a course like The Four Pillars of Singing, or with a solid teacher - which tehre are plenty of here.