ronws

That was amazing. Nice grit. Wide range, going from clean to twang and down to screamo. Well done.

And to further illustrate a point of where resonance actually happens, in my version of "Heaven and Hell," near the end, I am humming and then ah'ing the guitar fill. The range is baritone. But I feel it vibrating the soft palate. Many would call that chest voice. It can't be. It's vibrating the soft palate and it certainly isn't originating in the lungs. There is only the air column and the vocal chords or folds, which are approximately the size of your thumb (again, with the anatomy.)

So true, Fahim. If you actually study anatomy or just ask your doctor, the diaphragm is an inhaling muscle, not an exhaling muscle. As someone here rightly pointed out at one time, you inhale with effort but exhale by relaxing and should sing in the exhale. So, in reality, one should concentrate on fold closure and resonance and the breath should balance itself. But so many teachers have said, "Sing from the diaphragm." You don't actually sing from the diaphragm and when you push air, you are contracting with your chest muscles, not the diaphragm. And I used to think it was the diaphragm, too. And part of the pitch problems you may have heard from me was pushing air, which forces the folds too much and they resist and thicken and go off pitch or don't vibrate freely, as they should. The speed of sound is 750 mph or about 1100 feet per second. And your resonating space is mere inches in comparison.

Thanks for the advice. I've found I can hit those exact notes you are talking about better now that I am backing off the air pressure. And I would rather hit the note than drop 1/2. And the song, whether doing backing tracks or my guitar arrangement is in Eb, per the original.

Thanks for the kind words. And you're right, pros may spend a week recording just one song and editing tracks and pieces of tracks together to create a seemless, spotless whole. Where as, I tend to come home and record live or only two tracks. One guitar, one vocal. And when you hear the vocal, that is one track, not snippets from here and there. If I go from a high C to middle C, or vice versa, that's in that performance. Even David Lee Roth and Melissa Etheridge admit to adding bits to the vocal track when their voices are rough from a cold, or smoking and drinking in a night club, or hollering and shouting at a sporting event, in order to get an extra layer of rasp in Melissa's case or a subterranean low in David's case. And I thought physical exhaustion had contributed to some of problems, as well. My job is extremely physical. To get an idea of what I am putting up with, grabs 20 lbs of weights (approx weight of tools that I carry.) Since you can't fit a ladder in a sauna, go up and down the steps a few times. Set the sauna temp with med humidity at somewhere between 95 and 100 F. Now, start doing that at 6 in the morning. Stop at 8:30 for 15 minutes buy by going to a room that 85 to 95 with slightly less humidity and a slight breeze. That will feel like air conditioning. Go back in, endure this some more, essentially walk around in circles in the sauna to get a feel for the constant physical exertion. Stop at 11:30 for lunch for 30 minutes. Go back in and stay there until 2:30. Then you get in you car, clothes literally dripping with sweat from 8 hours of this and that's my day. And the other day, for about 2.5 hours, we received a shipment of lights at the school remodel. Since the delivery truck had no pallet jack and no lift gate, I had to push the pallet of lights to the end of the trailer so that the big forklift could get it. For 29 pallets. Pushing across a wood floor. Once outside, I grabbed a small pallet jack from the mechanical company and the forks were too wide so I had to tip the pallet up on a side and get the jack underneath and carry the whol thing. Up an incline and into the building and disperse each pallet to a classroom, inspite of other people, power cords, crap on the floor. For all of those 29 pallets. By myself. And imagine doing it at my age of 46. Not to mention that the weather changes in Texas play hob with my sinus and I get some allergies. And then go home and perform and record "Gethsemane" or the "Immigrant Song" by Led Zep. That's the next song I want to do but I won't post it. I've already been told that I have posted too much. If I do post it, it will have to be in the main site. When you do go home to do that, I want you to put away the nice mic that you have, the one that cost a pretty penny. I want you to sing and record on your cellphone, for the sound quality that I am getting out of my mic. And, in spite of eating bananas and drinking water all day, I am getting dehydrated for electrolytes because, in the middle of the night, I am awakened by severe cramps in my legs. So, I'm not getting a sound sleep. So, sometimes, I do hit a slightly off note in passagio. But I think I am improving that by better breath or air pressure control. But sometimes, exhausted is just being exhausted all over.

Good luck. I think you were on pitch but when have two vibratos out of synch you hear the beats of where the frequencies match and with different frequencies one wave is rising and falling faster than the other and that gives that odd auditory effect. I understand about neighbors. I have lived in apartments, before.

I just listened to it again and I couldn't remember doing any rasp. So it must be the mic clipping or something. And it seems Audacity added some harmony that wasn't there. That is, I didn't sing harmony to the lead. So, I am having technical problems, it seems. And the sound quality is like that of an old phonograph.

I thought of that, too! And check out the Axis of Awesome "4 chords" video in the related videos from your link. And mvraselli, yes, I've been having pitch issues in passagio. I've been fixing that with air pressure control. And, in some cases, if the words are problematic, either I change the pronunciation to an easier vowel or I go higher.

I like both. Your voice is really smooth in "Walking on Air." I could imagine you using this song to woo women off their feet. You make it a love song. Well done. It was a little quiet in some places but I think you did that for mood and interpretation.

Actually, I think it was a little of both. I don't consciously do a rasp but try to capture the emotion of the song. However, on this recording, I recorded guitar on one track and sang along on playback. But it starts out with me doing the song with both guitar playing and singing at the same time.

Thank you, again. And I've learned to do this song even better since this recording. But it is my benchmark, since it is the song that inspired me to do anything with my voice.

I'm very glad. Most here are concentrated on tenor, specifically the upper part of tenor. I like that last bit, too, reminding me of gregorian monks. When I did it, I wasn't thinking, just humming and ah'ing the guitar fill. In playback, it sounded dark and foreboding, so I kept it. Sometimes successful things happen by accident.

During the latter part of the song "And as we wind on down the road ..." I am mixing in crying resonance, a little I think. It may have caused it to sound strained. The last note of "to rock and not roll" was not a strain for me at all. It was what most people call head voice. And thanks for the positive review.

So true. I am learning something every day.

Really, Fahim, I was not meaning to offend. I think you misunderstood me. It just means being new. Aboard ship, a new passenger or crew member might be given quarters in the lower reaches of the hull, usually below the level of the draw of the boat, often marked by a line of deposited salt, from sailing in saltwater. Hence, "below the salt." To equate that, some of us come here lacking in skills or finesse. As we improve to your skill level, we get above the salt line of the ship, so to speak. It's a metaphor. And true, not everyone feels the need to comment on everything and that is not a reflection on the quality of the performance or recording. Another colloqiualism from where I live, "sometimes no news is good news." There are some here who always get a comment when they post. And some who don't. Que sera, sera (what will be, will be). Truly, I am sorry if I offended anyone with my sense of humor. Though this is not my thread, I must admit that I have natural ability to tick people off, at times. I don't purposefully set out to do it. It's just a natural talent. I was born a smart aleck. Made worse by sharing a similar sense of humor with my step-grandfather. Then understudy under the grand master, Lee, my friend. I mean well, it just doesn't always come across that way.

Amen, brother. So very true. And I am doing that very thing. And I do value the importance of exercises. Even after a successful application of these steps, one needs to keep training that. When I was taking martial arts, the instructors, often having multiple degree black belts in more than one style (my Tae Kwon Do instructor had a 2 degree black belt in Aikido, a 4th degree in Tae Kwon Do, and a black belt in Aiki-jujutsu) would practice basics, just like anyone else. And practiced nearly every day. You keep what you have because you keep doing it. In the same vein, I believe in practicing basics but I also believe in putting them in songs in order to "re-learn" that song. The sooner you break a bad habit in an actual song, the sooner you can replace proper habits. That way, you aren't disconnected between practice and performance. A few times, someone has said that they do fine in exercises but still wear out on a song. That's because they haven't yet brought the technique into song. For that, I would suggest what jonpall has done in the past which is to take a phrase from a song and use it as an exercise. I still do slides to keep in mind that it is the resonance that shifts. As it was put in an excellent instruction, for most people, the chords or folds are no bigger than your thumb. Whereas the resonating chamber in total can be 7 thumb widths in total length. And the inner diameter could be from 1 to 3 thumb widths, depending on how you change it.

It's funny because it depends on who you talk to and when. There are times when I know I have pulled the chest voice high and I do better when I learn to mix in head voice or go into head voice. And then am told I am using too much head voice. But, essentially, a well done "head" voice is just as strong as anything else. And one of the things I like about the viewpoint here, as espoused by Robert Lunte, is bridging and connecting. To where you don't have separate voices or registers, really. You just have different resonances supporting or providing placement for the notes. We still use the terms of chest and head voice, I think, as something of a misnomer to explain where the resonance is taking place. In actuality, chest resonance is not truly in the chest, where your lungs and heart are located. It is in the throat, as opposed to head resonance being behind the soft palate. I used to think of it being behind the sinus, which may not be truly accurate but it gave me a mental picture of where I should be. The note is created in the area of the larynx, to be general. Then it resonates in the space above it, which is the back of the throat, I think, just above the tongue. Anyway, it's not usually going lower than the larynx, as far as I know. Therefore, it might be more accurate to call it throat resonance. But then, I have also seen a descritption where even low notes are properly resonated behind the soft palate. So, then, what is changing to change the size of the resonating chamber is the inner diameter of your air column, running from larynx to sinus. Think of a note resonating in a tube. If you change the inner diameter of the tube, you change what range of notes can resonate in that space. Or, vice versa, to resonate a high note, you, aside from providing proper tension on the chords to produce that pitch, change the inner diameter of your tube to resonate that note. So then, the dynamic range is a result of having supple muscles that can change the resonating space to match. That is probably not a scientifically accurate description but it gives me a mental image to help understand it.

Actually, this now makes twice that I have listened to this and I'm glad I listened again, as I caught things I missed before. I like your slide from baritone to tenor with "no one survives..." And again, later, with 'metal meltdown' repeated as you ascend the "steps" of range. I think it was a good performance. Don't be worried if no one comments. I dare you to go back through this page or the last and count how many submissions I put up and how many comments I got back, good or bad. Most of my threads received not one comment. Nothing. Not "good job", nor, "you suck, stick with electrical work." So, also, you are new, as am I. In old sailing terms, we are still "below the salt."

You have good articulation at high pitch, which is not easy. I had not heard this slower version of D & R so, I'm not sure what to compare it too other than the other live recording that is the one I am used to hearing (circa 1987, in Dallas, Texas. Now, in comparing to the original there will be differences which doesn't mean you are wrong or that you did it badly. That judgement is reserved for me. Some people hit a wrong note and that's just jazz or being interpretive. I hit a wrong note and I've cocked it all up. Anyway, I'm using to hearing this song sung with a softer volume and attack. You gave it more bite and certainly more singing volume. Maybe it's just the volume on your mic, I'm not sure. Usually, I am the one who is singing too loud. I get the impression that your speaking voice is quite low, perhaps low baritone to upper bass,much like Axl Rose's speaking voice. That can make it difficult, I think, to learn how to sing softly at high pitch. For example, having heard myself on an answering machine, my speaking voice sounds similar, though not quite as raspy as Clint Eastwood. Kind of a soft baritone with a little gravel in it. In fact, people are surprised to meet me in person. They hear my voice and think I'm an average size guy and I show up and I am 6' 6" (2 meters) tall. Point being, it can be difficult even for me to learn to sing my upper end with less volume but it's helping. And this will be the first hurdle. Just because you sing an upper melody with a softer volume doesn't make it falsetto. Falsetto is a tonal quality that can be used in any part of the vocal range, even while speaking. In fact, I use a little falsetto when I want to do a Clint Eastwood impersonation. It adds a little more dust and grit in my low end. "I've got this badge, I've got this gun, and I got the love of Jesus in my pretty, green eyes" - from "The Gauntlet." So, when you sing with slightly less volume at high pitch, it is not falsetto, it is still head voice and you won't lose the strength of the note. But I like your intepretation of the melody line. That was cool.

Your tone was really good and the singing sounded natural and easy, not forced at all.

I had to listen to this a couple of times. Again, the lead is spot on, as far as I concerned. I thought I heard a problem with the harmony and then I realized that in harmony, you have a different vibrato rate than on lead. Sometimes, with the vibratos out of synch, it produced an odd effect. But still, a great performance.

i tried twice and my windows media player said the file was corrupted.

Actually, my copy of audacity has eq and reverb (called Gverb). I am not always satisfied with the results and I am still learning how to use those effects. When I did "Highway to Hell" I used an inverted RIAA eq pre-set. Otherwise, I tend not to use effects on the voice. But who knows, if I re-record with some softer singing volume and not overload the mic, I might get better results with those. And Shadow is pretty. In fact, Shadow is his name on his papers but my nickname for him is "Pretty Boy," because he is. And even before I had him neutered, people thought he was a she because he is so pretty. He is prettier than I am but I have learned to live with that. :lol:

Yes, yes, yes! I have learned that most of the problem comes from that. In part, due to singing over a guitar, sometimes my electric guitar (Hondo Flying V jacked into a Roland GS-6 rack mount special effects unit which is in turn, driving a Fender 85 200 watt guitar amp) and me with no microphone. So, I developed the ability to utter a sonic blast. So, I have been "oversinging" to be heard over my guitars. Now, jonpall says that I am using too much head resonance and I may beg to differ with him on that. Some of my problems, along with air pressure is carrying the chest voice to high. From what I have seen of the system represented by this site and forum, it's about bridging and connecting the head voice to the chest to create a complete range. In fact, the most soundest advice for a troublesome patch, even a passagio, is to approach it in head voice first and mix chest resonance little by little until you get the tone you are looking for. Now, there are times when a note is just going to sound loud, simply because it is placed right and the 2nd harmonic (I think) is coming into play, which amplifies that note. But yes, I have found, when I back off the air pressure, the note sounds stronger simply because it is truer, and the tone is more under control. In a roundabout way, I think that is what jonpall is talking about in using curbing and crying. I've heard some of his performances and he tends to sing at a softer volume than I have. But he also has some great tone. I also sing some really high stuff and at the upper end of my range, I have to resonate properly to get the note out, and so it ends up sounding loud. I simply will not ruin my chords trying to do, say, a Michael Bolton crying rasp at the end of my range. One of the things I was pleased with on this recording of "Stairway to Heaven" is that I did specifically watch and control my air pressure. Even the ending part that is in the mid to high tenor range, I held back on air pressure and just concentrated on resonating the note. And ended on a higher note than the original because that suits my voice better, not trying to show up Robert Plant, but I don't think I can do his 1/2 tone with rasp justice and I don't want to hurt my voice trying to do one sound effect. The reason it may have sounded like a scream or "oversinging" is the mic I am recording on. It's about as good as a cellphone mic. If mics didn't make the difference, then Heil and Rode would be out of business. Professional singers sometimes carry two or three mics to a gig, because different venues have different acoustics and one mic will sound better in one, but not necessarily in another. Even if I were to get software that helps with pitch correction, it can't do its full job if the mic giving it input is crackling and cutting out and, in some cases, is flattening the pitch because the volume and pitch are more than it can handle. It is a physical limitation. I could go deep into the physics and electronics of it but I won't. In some cases, I have had a recording that just didn't happen as I would like and it doesn't matter how well I have done before, how well I do live and in person, that one "Aw crap" erases it all. Fortunately, I am as stubborn as a Texas mule. I don't know the word "quit." And I greatly appreciate the advice and tips I receive here.

I thought it was good performance. You put some soul into the jazz. And, for me, the drums were fresh and saucy. Was that you on the drums? I really like the Robert Cray tones in your voice but the falsetto worked pretty, as well. Usually, I listen to guitar but on this, I found the drums very inspiring.