ronws

I like both. Your voice is really smooth in "Walking on Air." I could imagine you using this song to woo women off their feet. You make it a love song. Well done. It was a little quiet in some places but I think you did that for mood and interpretation.

Actually, I think it was a little of both. I don't consciously do a rasp but try to capture the emotion of the song. However, on this recording, I recorded guitar on one track and sang along on playback. But it starts out with me doing the song with both guitar playing and singing at the same time.

Thank you, again. And I've learned to do this song even better since this recording. But it is my benchmark, since it is the song that inspired me to do anything with my voice.

I'm very glad. Most here are concentrated on tenor, specifically the upper part of tenor. I like that last bit, too, reminding me of gregorian monks. When I did it, I wasn't thinking, just humming and ah'ing the guitar fill. In playback, it sounded dark and foreboding, so I kept it. Sometimes successful things happen by accident.

During the latter part of the song "And as we wind on down the road ..." I am mixing in crying resonance, a little I think. It may have caused it to sound strained. The last note of "to rock and not roll" was not a strain for me at all. It was what most people call head voice. And thanks for the positive review.

So true. I am learning something every day.

Really, Fahim, I was not meaning to offend. I think you misunderstood me. It just means being new. Aboard ship, a new passenger or crew member might be given quarters in the lower reaches of the hull, usually below the level of the draw of the boat, often marked by a line of deposited salt, from sailing in saltwater. Hence, "below the salt." To equate that, some of us come here lacking in skills or finesse. As we improve to your skill level, we get above the salt line of the ship, so to speak. It's a metaphor. And true, not everyone feels the need to comment on everything and that is not a reflection on the quality of the performance or recording. Another colloqiualism from where I live, "sometimes no news is good news." There are some here who always get a comment when they post. And some who don't. Que sera, sera (what will be, will be). Truly, I am sorry if I offended anyone with my sense of humor. Though this is not my thread, I must admit that I have natural ability to tick people off, at times. I don't purposefully set out to do it. It's just a natural talent. I was born a smart aleck. Made worse by sharing a similar sense of humor with my step-grandfather. Then understudy under the grand master, Lee, my friend. I mean well, it just doesn't always come across that way.

Amen, brother. So very true. And I am doing that very thing. And I do value the importance of exercises. Even after a successful application of these steps, one needs to keep training that. When I was taking martial arts, the instructors, often having multiple degree black belts in more than one style (my Tae Kwon Do instructor had a 2 degree black belt in Aikido, a 4th degree in Tae Kwon Do, and a black belt in Aiki-jujutsu) would practice basics, just like anyone else. And practiced nearly every day. You keep what you have because you keep doing it. In the same vein, I believe in practicing basics but I also believe in putting them in songs in order to "re-learn" that song. The sooner you break a bad habit in an actual song, the sooner you can replace proper habits. That way, you aren't disconnected between practice and performance. A few times, someone has said that they do fine in exercises but still wear out on a song. That's because they haven't yet brought the technique into song. For that, I would suggest what jonpall has done in the past which is to take a phrase from a song and use it as an exercise. I still do slides to keep in mind that it is the resonance that shifts. As it was put in an excellent instruction, for most people, the chords or folds are no bigger than your thumb. Whereas the resonating chamber in total can be 7 thumb widths in total length. And the inner diameter could be from 1 to 3 thumb widths, depending on how you change it.

It's funny because it depends on who you talk to and when. There are times when I know I have pulled the chest voice high and I do better when I learn to mix in head voice or go into head voice. And then am told I am using too much head voice. But, essentially, a well done "head" voice is just as strong as anything else. And one of the things I like about the viewpoint here, as espoused by Robert Lunte, is bridging and connecting. To where you don't have separate voices or registers, really. You just have different resonances supporting or providing placement for the notes. We still use the terms of chest and head voice, I think, as something of a misnomer to explain where the resonance is taking place. In actuality, chest resonance is not truly in the chest, where your lungs and heart are located. It is in the throat, as opposed to head resonance being behind the soft palate. I used to think of it being behind the sinus, which may not be truly accurate but it gave me a mental picture of where I should be. The note is created in the area of the larynx, to be general. Then it resonates in the space above it, which is the back of the throat, I think, just above the tongue. Anyway, it's not usually going lower than the larynx, as far as I know. Therefore, it might be more accurate to call it throat resonance. But then, I have also seen a descritption where even low notes are properly resonated behind the soft palate. So, then, what is changing to change the size of the resonating chamber is the inner diameter of your air column, running from larynx to sinus. Think of a note resonating in a tube. If you change the inner diameter of the tube, you change what range of notes can resonate in that space. Or, vice versa, to resonate a high note, you, aside from providing proper tension on the chords to produce that pitch, change the inner diameter of your tube to resonate that note. So then, the dynamic range is a result of having supple muscles that can change the resonating space to match. That is probably not a scientifically accurate description but it gives me a mental image to help understand it.

Actually, this now makes twice that I have listened to this and I'm glad I listened again, as I caught things I missed before. I like your slide from baritone to tenor with "no one survives..." And again, later, with 'metal meltdown' repeated as you ascend the "steps" of range. I think it was a good performance. Don't be worried if no one comments. I dare you to go back through this page or the last and count how many submissions I put up and how many comments I got back, good or bad. Most of my threads received not one comment. Nothing. Not "good job", nor, "you suck, stick with electrical work." So, also, you are new, as am I. In old sailing terms, we are still "below the salt."

You have good articulation at high pitch, which is not easy. I had not heard this slower version of D & R so, I'm not sure what to compare it too other than the other live recording that is the one I am used to hearing (circa 1987, in Dallas, Texas. Now, in comparing to the original there will be differences which doesn't mean you are wrong or that you did it badly. That judgement is reserved for me. Some people hit a wrong note and that's just jazz or being interpretive. I hit a wrong note and I've cocked it all up. Anyway, I'm using to hearing this song sung with a softer volume and attack. You gave it more bite and certainly more singing volume. Maybe it's just the volume on your mic, I'm not sure. Usually, I am the one who is singing too loud. I get the impression that your speaking voice is quite low, perhaps low baritone to upper bass,much like Axl Rose's speaking voice. That can make it difficult, I think, to learn how to sing softly at high pitch. For example, having heard myself on an answering machine, my speaking voice sounds similar, though not quite as raspy as Clint Eastwood. Kind of a soft baritone with a little gravel in it. In fact, people are surprised to meet me in person. They hear my voice and think I'm an average size guy and I show up and I am 6' 6" (2 meters) tall. Point being, it can be difficult even for me to learn to sing my upper end with less volume but it's helping. And this will be the first hurdle. Just because you sing an upper melody with a softer volume doesn't make it falsetto. Falsetto is a tonal quality that can be used in any part of the vocal range, even while speaking. In fact, I use a little falsetto when I want to do a Clint Eastwood impersonation. It adds a little more dust and grit in my low end. "I've got this badge, I've got this gun, and I got the love of Jesus in my pretty, green eyes" - from "The Gauntlet." So, when you sing with slightly less volume at high pitch, it is not falsetto, it is still head voice and you won't lose the strength of the note. But I like your intepretation of the melody line. That was cool.

Your tone was really good and the singing sounded natural and easy, not forced at all.

I had to listen to this a couple of times. Again, the lead is spot on, as far as I concerned. I thought I heard a problem with the harmony and then I realized that in harmony, you have a different vibrato rate than on lead. Sometimes, with the vibratos out of synch, it produced an odd effect. But still, a great performance.

i tried twice and my windows media player said the file was corrupted.

Actually, my copy of audacity has eq and reverb (called Gverb). I am not always satisfied with the results and I am still learning how to use those effects. When I did "Highway to Hell" I used an inverted RIAA eq pre-set. Otherwise, I tend not to use effects on the voice. But who knows, if I re-record with some softer singing volume and not overload the mic, I might get better results with those. And Shadow is pretty. In fact, Shadow is his name on his papers but my nickname for him is "Pretty Boy," because he is. And even before I had him neutered, people thought he was a she because he is so pretty. He is prettier than I am but I have learned to live with that. :lol:

Yes, yes, yes! I have learned that most of the problem comes from that. In part, due to singing over a guitar, sometimes my electric guitar (Hondo Flying V jacked into a Roland GS-6 rack mount special effects unit which is in turn, driving a Fender 85 200 watt guitar amp) and me with no microphone. So, I developed the ability to utter a sonic blast. So, I have been "oversinging" to be heard over my guitars. Now, jonpall says that I am using too much head resonance and I may beg to differ with him on that. Some of my problems, along with air pressure is carrying the chest voice to high. From what I have seen of the system represented by this site and forum, it's about bridging and connecting the head voice to the chest to create a complete range. In fact, the most soundest advice for a troublesome patch, even a passagio, is to approach it in head voice first and mix chest resonance little by little until you get the tone you are looking for. Now, there are times when a note is just going to sound loud, simply because it is placed right and the 2nd harmonic (I think) is coming into play, which amplifies that note. But yes, I have found, when I back off the air pressure, the note sounds stronger simply because it is truer, and the tone is more under control. In a roundabout way, I think that is what jonpall is talking about in using curbing and crying. I've heard some of his performances and he tends to sing at a softer volume than I have. But he also has some great tone. I also sing some really high stuff and at the upper end of my range, I have to resonate properly to get the note out, and so it ends up sounding loud. I simply will not ruin my chords trying to do, say, a Michael Bolton crying rasp at the end of my range. One of the things I was pleased with on this recording of "Stairway to Heaven" is that I did specifically watch and control my air pressure. Even the ending part that is in the mid to high tenor range, I held back on air pressure and just concentrated on resonating the note. And ended on a higher note than the original because that suits my voice better, not trying to show up Robert Plant, but I don't think I can do his 1/2 tone with rasp justice and I don't want to hurt my voice trying to do one sound effect. The reason it may have sounded like a scream or "oversinging" is the mic I am recording on. It's about as good as a cellphone mic. If mics didn't make the difference, then Heil and Rode would be out of business. Professional singers sometimes carry two or three mics to a gig, because different venues have different acoustics and one mic will sound better in one, but not necessarily in another. Even if I were to get software that helps with pitch correction, it can't do its full job if the mic giving it input is crackling and cutting out and, in some cases, is flattening the pitch because the volume and pitch are more than it can handle. It is a physical limitation. I could go deep into the physics and electronics of it but I won't. In some cases, I have had a recording that just didn't happen as I would like and it doesn't matter how well I have done before, how well I do live and in person, that one "Aw crap" erases it all. Fortunately, I am as stubborn as a Texas mule. I don't know the word "quit." And I greatly appreciate the advice and tips I receive here.

I thought it was good performance. You put some soul into the jazz. And, for me, the drums were fresh and saucy. Was that you on the drums? I really like the Robert Cray tones in your voice but the falsetto worked pretty, as well. Usually, I listen to guitar but on this, I found the drums very inspiring.

I agree with the others. At times, the harmonies were distracting but the lead vocal was really good. Singing in a softer volume, you had great tone and an excellent vibrato, in my opinion. Maybe we could hear it with, like the others said, harmony only on the chorus and in the form of the word "ah", which will highlight your lead vocal. I think you're hitting your stride, man.

My advice may not be worth as much as a wooden nickel. You have an nice tone in your voice. Even when you do a falsetto tone, it's good. You went off pitch on some of the higher notes and I think, for what it's worth, that it is because of forming the words, specifically the vowels forward in your mouth. Try singing it while smiling. Not because we want to see you smile, which would be great, but because it will change where you resonate, by causing the words to form in the back of your mouth. Also, I think, your pitch will get better after you have done this song a number of times, mainly because, by then, you won't have to stop and refer to the sheet music. That is, flowing along will change everything.

Singasong. I've played guitar since 1974 and have been working on my voice since 1988. And I still have people telling me I need lessons and work, in both. And they may be right. But hitting a wrong note won't stop me. I have been doing electrical work since 1983 and will be doing it a while longer but trust me on this, I will also be singing and may yet make something of a career out of it. None of us are finished products. There are a number of people here with better voices than mine. And yet, they are here, still honing their craft. So, you will do likewise. Here, elsewhere, whereever. I have a master electrician license. It took me a while to get. It took a number of tries to pass my journeyman's exam. And I passed the master exam on the second try, not the first. As I used to describe it, I am too stupid to quit. But what I mean by that is that if you have a goal, pursue it. The only person that stops you is yourself. Yes, you could be safe and finish your law degree. But pursue what you must do. Mick Jagger was in college for accounting. Duff McKagan went back to school after being in Guns and Roses and finished his business degree. And Jimi Hendrix used to be a sargeant in the US Army. And the singer for the Georgia Satellites mowed lawns for a living. Jewel lived in a van under a bridge. Madonna arrived in New York City with $35 in her pocket. Most of the members of Guns and Roses slept in the storage unit where they kept their gear, from time to time. Either there or on the couch and floor at Slash's mother's house. Do what you feel you must do. Damn the torpedos and full speed ahead ...

Believe it or not, jonpall, I had a similar epiphany at work today, while re-routing some 1 inch electrical pipes for floor boxes in the computer lab of this school we're remodelling. Putting things in their proper place, literally and figuratively. With my having posted so much in this section, it must have seemed that I was using it as a showcase. In my flash of insight, I realized that this is a forum and specifically a section to post things that need to be worked on. And I agree, I got pitchy in some spots. And I do engage in some exercises, I just don't think to post examples of them here. Long and short of it is that I will be posting less. Not because I am afraid of criticism but more to the need to be more specific when I am at a loss. Say I do some exercises and it's not helping. So, I bring it here for ideas. That kind of thing. Within reason. I did another version of "Dust in the Wind" with a cleaned-up guitar performance and slightly softer singing volume simply to see if that is what people were talking about and if that is the way to go in some of endeavors. I may still do that from time to time. Even in playback, which sounded better, by the way, I can tell that not all of the tone is being played. I'm on pitch, with good tone, I think, but not all of the overtone in my voice is making it through. Shoot, not even all the resonance of my cheapie guitar is coming through. And that is an equipment problem. So, much of the stuff I put up never received a single comment, good or bad. So, either people were bored or being polite, not wanting to hurt my feelings. I realize that "Brandy" is not "Back in Black" and sounding like a tenor version of Looking Glass is not as important as sounding like Brian Johnson. So, I guess I assumed that there wasn't any problems other than what I heard of myself and yes, I have heard some of the same things you have mentioned. So, you're not hurting my feelings and I do have these mistakes. One of the biggest things that has been helping me is a series of essays in the main site about using less air pressure. And such is my bad luck to submit so much stuff before I started any improvement. And, perhaps, you have simply had enough. I have been using more twang and curbing and using more head resonance lately, though I think that is not what you are referring to. I think you were talking about the highest notes, perhaps. Anyway, I'll quit bothering you guys.

In regards to tone, for example, I can do a pretty good (I think) impersonation of Clint Eastwood but it comes from having similar speaking voices. So, yes, there are things that can be done to change tone. But I have an easier time changing tone at lower pitches and not so much at higher pitches. At least for now.

Thanks, Fahim. I have been emailing you, by now. And jonpall, I get what your saying, I was just mystified with your response in this thread. As per your own words, you weren't referencing my performance of this song, specifically, but speaking more generally, no doubt in reference to other specific performances. I feel it would have been more helpful if you brought up the issue in the performance you had a problem with. Let's say I had a problem with "I Remember You" (which I did and think I sucked on that one). Criticizing specific issues with it while reviewing "Whiskey in the Jar" wouldn't make sense to me, unless it could be related in terms of "here's where you had it solid and here is where you veered" if such comparisons could be made. Two me, both songs require different singing volumes, which may have been my problem. I know vowel phonation was a problem, for sure, causing me to breath wrong and end up pitchy. I'm not ticked at you about anything. I value your input and I envy you having a band. I'm not sure what I could do about tone. To some extent, we all have a basic tone but I think we can modify it. And I will, in fact, take those in deep consideration and Fahim is going to try and share with me the "tools", so to speak, that he uses to monitor and correct pitch. And maybe it's a case of where taking care of pitch will bring tone into line. The only other thing I could ask of you is that, in the future, if there's a problem with a performance, please mention it in relation to that one. Sometimes, I do better with specific cases that I may generalize later. I have been learning a lot here, lately, and it comes from realizing that I can do better with a softer or lighter approach. That I don't have to sing loud enough to be heard in the Cotton Bowl Stadium at Fair Park in Dallas, without a p.a. That, alone, I think, allows a better control over tone. So, for example, your link to the lip bubbles, in that regard, makes perfect sense, as far as controlling breath and air pressure.

Thanks, guys. I hate to admit it, but I did not practice the guitar part in between this time and last time. I did clip my fingernails, though. And this is the way I have always played this song. It's one of the few that my mother did like. And, by the way, this song is actually played by two guitars, whereas I am playing it on one. I have seen Kansas live, as others here have, and it was usually played, at least live, on two guitars. As for the singing, I tried to sing it quieter than I have in times past. That seems to help with this cheapie mic that distorts on anything over conversational volume. And, I kid you not, even the guitar doesn't sound in recording like it does live, here in my hands. But I didn't like the guitar track on the previous one and I was glad to re-do it. And I have left it up for comparison. I'm going to work on pitch issues where I can, though I can't help the basic tone of my voice, just as I can't help being tall or blonde or blue-eyed. Some things I am just stuck with.

Here it is, with a cleaned up guitar track. Please excuse the tone and pitch problems in my voice as they sound on this little mic that I have.