JonJon
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Posts posted by JonJon
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lotta character in your voice. You aint gonna get a lot of constructive feedback lol. Just take what u have and keep strengthening it and trying new things
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nice, I dig it. Nice F#5
come sing on my song, I got a nice F#5 high harmony waiting for u lol
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rockstar,
I dont know brother. You start off in one resonance and you gradually hand it off to the higher resonance.
You start off with the sound in your throat and as you go higher you gradually let the sound start moving up into your sinus cavities and up into your head etc
One thing I was doing, by accident, was pushing my chest voice way up. That was before I knew how to go into the head voice. I would just push the chest voice up higher and higher until I choked out. You can also do that with your head voice coming down. You can bring your headvoice down, without going into chest voice, until your headvoice wont go any lower and it just falls apart.
So lets say I can take my chest voice up to B4 and I can bring my headvoice down to E4. Well then obviously I should be able to smoothly blend them together when I bridge. I am just making those numbers up but you see what I am saying
If you are making good notes in chest voice and good notes in headvoice, then you should be able to smoothly connect them. its hard to put into words, its just a "feel" thing. As you go up you "feel" the chest voice becoming harder to do but at the same time you can "feel" the note being taken by the headvoice. In that bridge area you are feeling both chest and head voices
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7 minutes ago, muffinhead said:
And I was referring to the highest note I can phonate in head voice that sounds halfway decent. The highest note I can phonate is around a C6,
that lets you know that eventually you can bring those two endpoints together. The one coming up from the bottom has to gradually become more like the one up on top etc
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Well those sirens were actually the first time id ever bridged lol. Thats "sort of" a c5, not that great though.
of course I was 48 at the time and had sang high notes using falsettofalset falsetto or reinforced falsetto for years. So there was already some foundation laid for higher notes etc
and for the last several months ive done lots of high sirens and can now actually siren up closer to like f#5. Been working on that some lately, there is another bridge up there. That doesnt mean I can smoothly articulate lyrics up there though!
Now im starting to work on belting some belting because ive never really trained it yet. My belting belting sux
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stuck at A#4? yeah, somehow have to learn to use more resonance up in the soft palate etc....or even feel the note" in the back of the head" lol
Surely you can make some squeaks or hoots or SOMETHING above A#4 though cant you? sometimes u can play with those noises and bring them down to lessen the gap etc
Sometimes I use pictures to sing with. Like, sometimes u cant just "push" a note higher. I picture a crane or a suction cup reaching down and "pulling" the note up. You are trying to go from one resonance to a higher one and maybe different mechanisms are involved etc. They need to meet and link up. Sometimes the higher one has to reach down to get the note etc. At least thats the mental imagery I use
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4 minutes ago, MDEW said:
SLS teaches you how to achieve cord closure but does not teach how to maintain that closure with a bigger sound. When singing for real, even when singing a lighter mass you are still using a bigger sound than Speech Level. At least do your Edit: Yes something odd is going on Here. Half of my post just got eaten.
yeah, im having to do the old school "select all" and copy, before I post my magnum opus length posts lol. I lost a good one earlier
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something MDEW said in my old siren thread. Makes good sense now for this thread
"One thing that people do not think about in terms of light singing and Heavy singing is that if you have a heavy cord closure or more mass to the folds as you ascend and approach the passaggio you reduce vocal mass before shifting. If you are already singing light you do not reduce mass you just increase pressure as you shift. If you are singing light and try to lighten more at the shift you will lose connection and flip to
falsetto."Yes. I have been referencing "shedding weight" as you ascend. But if you are already really light to start with then you dont have anything TO shed and you might have to work more to maintain air pressure and cord closure etc
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sirenssirens
okay, I have these really junky ones that I did on the actual day I learned to bridge lol. or, the day I became conscious of singing up on the palates as I call it. Singing in headvoice, letting go of the tight throat resonance etc
its actually fun to look back on these...they are not quite 6 months old and to me now they sound totally horrendous! My range and control has gotten so much better
In any case here is what a novice siren might sound like. You gradually leave the chest resonance and embrace the head resonance or vice versa
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23 minutes ago, Gneetapp said:
That is exactly what is going on now: we are just beting on what is going on based on Rockstar's description, which might not even be accurate.
I got $3 say the chest note aint got good breath to start with
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24 minutes ago, Rockstar said:
I do not choke on the high notes, I left that thing years before. Now the sound gets weird but there is no strain. What do you mean by "resonating on the soft palate"? So the soft palate must rise which gives you that yawn like sensation and the resonance ascends. right?
Any exercises you recommend? cuz I'm on my own for now. Can you post a clip of you doing a siren that I may imitate?
again, I have no idea if the soft palate rises or not. I dont know if my eyes dilate or if my hair looks good lol. I yawned when I woke up but that was a little while back
like SexyBeast said, are you getting a good strong vibration etc in your chest notes. Are you getting a decent breath before u try to sing a note?
An untrained singer, if he gets a good breath and he sings a decent note, he will generally choke at some point if he just tries to carry that up higher and higher.
if you arent choking, then I wonder if you are ever actually getting a decent breath in to start with? Almost sounds like you are using a falsetto chest voice
your answer might be to get a good strong chest note going, push it up until you choke, THEN learn to let go of the chest voice and gradually bridge up thru the passagio
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2nd video really explains it well. You have chest voice and you have head voice. (yes, im comfortable using old outdated terms lol)
there is that range where the voices overlap. At first, an untrained singer has a big gap and he has to flip to yodel to get up to the higher notes. With trainingtraining, the singer is able to smoothly work through that whole range without any huge or sudden changes in tone etc
Later on, the singer can learn to work thru that range in different ways. He can sing notes in that range using different techniques.
for example lets take the note A4. The trained singer may have 3 different approaches to that note:
1) gradually let go of the chest voice and let head voice smoothly take over. You get a blend of chest and head voice. IMO that would be whats called "mixed voice", though I never personally use that term. I usually just call that "singing in the bridge" or "the bridge area"
2) belting. use more compression etc and forcefully sing the note using more of a chest voice feel. Also called "pulling chest' lol. This is the opposite of what the guys in your vids are doing. Do they sound like Bruce Springsteen or Bono or John Fogerty? no
3) bridging early. This means the singer went ahead and let go of the chest voice feel and embraced the head voice at a lower note than he might normally do. This is what I think of when I hear the term "light mass" singing.
Its a stylistic thing to. Some people NEVER belt because they arent trying to get that type of sound. IMO the guys in your vids arent belting, they are using either early bridging or just natural bridging but in any case they are keeping it pretty light.
Some people NEVER use head voice because they never learned how, or because they want a loud, chesty, shouty type of sound.
other people use various voices as I described. a good singer might use all 3 of those bridging methods in the same song or almost in the same phrase
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6 minutes ago, Rockstar said:
I can sing beautifully till E4 after that I have to change my vocal tone to stay connected not that the sound breaks into falsetto or becomes shouty but the resonance dampens and feels closed off.
Sounds to me just what ive said 3 or 4 times now. You need to learn to leave the throat resonance and learn to vibrate the sound off of the hard and/or soft palates (the roof of your mouth, not down in the throat)
for me it was a 2 step thing. I could not "bridge" because I didnt have the feel of resonating on the palate. When I tried to sing higher notes I was just trying to take my chest voice (throat voice) up higher and higher and eventually you just choke doing that.
Finally I just figured out that I had to find some other way to make sound lol. So I learned how to get the sound up above the choking point in my throat and up onto the palates.
Once I got the feeling of singing those higher notes I then started trying to "bridge" smoothly from chest up to head etc (or from "throat" up to "palates" or however you want to look at it)
Essentially once you learn to get the sound out of the throat and into the palates etc, its then a matter of thousands of repetitions of sirens and other singing exercises with various vowels etc to make that transitions effortless and smooth. IMO thats ALL those guys you posted are doing. I didnt hear anything inherently difficult there unless i am missing something. They have simply learned to sing lightly thru the passagio etc
if you are singing really heavy, or husky, on the low end, it makes it harder to get thru the passagio up to those higher notes etc.
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5 minutes ago, Rockstar said:
I'm confused. In SLS they say to not lift the soft palate yet advise to lower larynx and cry into the notes which actually raises the soft palate.
if I had all that in my head when I tried to sing, id be confused to lol
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1 minute ago, Rockstar said:
That is headvoice? What!?
Well its not chest voice is it? Whats left? lol
To me its just basic headvoice. They have bridged thru the passagio into the headvoice.
They are singing with a light voice, its not really heavy
Im confused, if you can sing to c5 then you can sing what they are doing easily
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yeah, seems the forum is eating my posts whenever it involves auto formatting or links etc
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Sorry, the forum ate my post lol.
Basically those guys you posted are just singing in basic head voice. you need to learn to get the sound out of your throat and up more into the hard and/or soft palate.
IMO they are not belting or even supporting THAT much. That just basically a light head voice sound.
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omg, I posted out a nice long explanation and so far its not showing. The forum has been acting a bit weird lately with eating long posts. Caching issue?
It was autosaving it but when I posted it, only half is showing so far
wow
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you are being very technical when you start to name all of these "techniques" and all of those physiological terms. Keep in mind that thousands of people can sing great who have never even heard those terms. Little kids can listen and mimic singers and noises in nature without knowing the position of their tongue or what their soft palate or larynx is doing.
I use those terms and things when I am experimenting to find new sounds, or, when I find a new sound I will then go back and think about the physiology and techniques so that I can then categorize and repeat the new sound.
That being said, I can sing a lot of different tones and decent range etc and I pretty much NEVER get into the position of this or that inside my mouth. So far it hasn't been necessary to do so.
You can group sounds into broader categories. You generally don't need a microscope. In broad terms, the singing is either "heavy" or "light". A "heavy" sound would generally be way more supported and have a lot more compression like a heavy rock sound or heavy metal. When you think of
Lift up, Pull Back & Track & Release (Four Pillars)
in TVS Student Training Journal
Posted
The 4pillars is pretty big. Take some time and look at some of the explanation vids etc. There are explanations and demonstrations of lift up and pull back.
The point of lift up/pull back is to help get you to "bridge". Bridge essentially means go from chest voice up to headvoice etc. In your example file you are not bridging. You are going up with chest voice to about g#4 and getting stuck there.
Basically you need to learn to access your headvoice. it can be tricky at first etc. You need to sort of learn to get the vibration (resonance) out of the throat and more up onto the roof of the mouth (hard and soft palate etc)
Do you have a keyboard? if not, here is a cool on online that tells you what notes you are hitting http://piano-player.info/
What happens if you try to hit a note around, say, B4? A lot of people start off with chest voice and then they jump up to falsetto when they try to hit higher notes. Falsetto isnt really a true headvoice but its what most of us start with until we learn to vibrate the sound off the roof of our mouth or at least somewhere above the throat itself