Hunting High and Low Trial

[Keith]

Here, I am trying different larnyx positions, trying to get a fatter sound. This song is a darn nightmare for me. This is the second attempt at it. I confess, that I punched in a spot in the chorus. Let me know if you hear any differences in tone throughout.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=12391123&q=hi&newref=1

[gno]

Keith - Nice performance! The only difference in tone I heard was in the chorus when you go up to the G#4 - it sometimes sounded a little thinner than the lower parts, but other times it was very consistent. Great job. That sounds like a very demanding song with a lot of notes right in the middle of the passagio.

[Keith]

Keith - Nice performance! The only difference in tone I heard was in the chorus when you go up to the G#4 - it sometimes sounded a little thinner than the lower parts, but other times it was very consistent. Great job. That sounds like a very demanding song with a lot of notes right in the middle of the passagio.

Yeah man, this song kills me. I tried it long ago, before I had a somewhat developed head voice. I have been working on strengthening my head voice for the last few months, and it is going very slowly! But, I think I have made progress. Thanks for listening!

[ronws]

I also think you have made progress. I can hear you working on the things you have mentioned in the other thread about not singing so loud in your lower end, which will give you the one-voice effect. Something I have also learned in my journey, even though I am a "tenor," already. Most times, the chorus was good, better than the verses, which had some cracks here and there. The highest notes, those were good. You finally let go of the good vs evil fight of "chest" and "head." The other money notes were the bite you put on "wind." Loved those.

When I hear your voice, I hear most of the one-voice already there. I have a thought about that and I will email you.

[Keith]

Thanks Ron! I'll check my mail before I crash.

[Jugulator]

Keith, it could have sounded awesome if you tried to replace the falsetto with a mixed voice pulling more chest when singing high. The lower parts are perfect.

[Keith]

Keith, it could have sounded awesome if you tried to replace the falsetto with a mid voice pulling more chest when singing high. The lower parts are perfect.

Working on it lol. The lower parts are still pretty high. This version is leaps and bounds better than My first try.

[Keith]

Keith, it could have sounded awesome if you tried to replace the falsetto with a mid voice pulling more chest when singing high. The lower parts are perfect.

Working on it lol. The lower parts are still pretty high. This version is leaps and bounds better than My first try.

[Owen Korzec]

First thing that comes to mind, way too much ah shade. You need to cover a lot more at the top, as well as dampen the larynx, I repeat, a LOT more.

Have you been drilling dampen and release onsets? That's step one...

As you do, try to really think about holding the larynx down. The sensation could be compared to trying to flatten a huge stack of papers with your hands that just bounces back up if you let go. You can't let the larynx float back up, you have to really hold it down, and you will physically feel this muscular contraction in your throat and that's perfectly fine. It's partly a pressing down and partly a squeezing in at the very center. It's not enough to just lower the larynx, you also have to simultaneously add compression through greater activation of the vocalis muscle. But the two sensations, the squeeze and the pressing down, tend to go together and feel like one. And that combined sensation has a lot to do with getting away from the quacky vowels and falsetto and deeper into the uh spectrum with more belty character.

Another thing to keep in mind when doing dampen and release onsets is to really make a hard "b", not a "p". This will help encourage the vocalis muscle to activate stronger.

It may also help to get out the lyrics and go with the whole writing out the vowel mods approach. Replace all the ah-ish or aw-ish stuff with uh, and the ae-ish stuff with EH. On the chorus you'd want to do, just for an example:

I am Hunting HUHyEHnd Low

DUH-eeving from the skUHy above

Looking for, more and more, once again

I am Hunting HUHyEHnd Low

SometUHmes UH-ee may win, sometUHmes UH-'ll lose

It's just a game thEHt UH play

Also, listening now, you are actually modifying all the other uh's toward ah or aw! Stop it bro! Darken your uh's and darken your ah's toward those dark uh's.

In summary:

Less ah, more dark uh (listen to Rob's "Rooster" video...dark narrow "uh"s all over the place)

More covering

Lower larynx

Higher soft palate (might help in lowering the larynx)

More vocalis activity

Which you can really all group into the same sensation, it all works together pretty well.

Hope that helps.

Quick disclaimer: I have not heard the original version.

[Keith]

The Original

[Keith]

For some reason, the "uh" shade kills any head voice connection that I have. I can stay in if I use "oooh" o "ah", but "uh" actually hurts.

[Keith]

Whats Roy modifying to? 1:43, 2:25, and 4:09???

[Owen Korzec]

For some reason, the "uh" shade kills any head voice connection that I have. I can stay in if I use "oooh" o "ah", but "uh" actually hurts.

Interesting, that is not good...perhaps you just need to train it?

You see, avoiding uh is not going to get you anywhere, you have to find a way to phonate uh shades in the head voice with good compression, if you want to sound big and boomy. It's not an option IMO, it's a necessity.

It may take some experimentation to get used to, but you can do it.

I do want to point out that it will be hard, it is not intuitive, you may feel it working a lot more intrinsic musculature in your larynx, and that the uh shade and twang are fairly antagonistic therefore it may take more effort to combine them. It should not hurt though.

It may help to allow some twang to release at first, then once you're in the "uh" setup, add it back. Or not. I also think on "uh" there is a sense of the compression shifting from twang/interarytenoids to hold/glottal compression/vocalis. It requires a different kind of compression to keep the folds together. However that is not to say the twang has to disappear, it just needs to be assisted with that darker, bulkier kind of compression.

Could you email me a file of you attempting a dark twanged uh in the head voice? Various attempts preferably...it would be helpful to know how your voice is responding to it.

[Keith]

Yeah, I can tomorrow - going to DJ karaoke night in a few minutes. Post you email address.

[Owen Korzec]

Whats Roy modifying to? 1:43, 2:25, and 4:09???

1:43 and 2:25 somewhere between ah and uh. But neither with as high of a larynx as you were doing.

4:09 funky shade, sounds like a mix of a narrow uh, ih, and ae. You will hear singers go to that shade a lot on high notes.

[Owen Korzec]

Yeah, I can tomorrow - going to DJ karaoke night in a few minutes. Post you email address.

you can find it on the side where the poster's name is, click "email". I don't feel like putting it out in the open.

[ronws]

Thanks for posting the original, Keith. And thanks for choosing a live performance. I am unrepentantly a believer in live performance.

Then I listened again to your cover and have come to a different conclusion. Maybe my ears are different, today. I buy them in bulk at Walmart and change them every few days, along with my socks.

:/

[Chavie]

You have a great voice man, always a pleasure to hear.

Maybe a little too light on this take though...

when i go for the fatter sound, i think low......and it seems to get me the sound i want.

I actually discovered this singing Tom Jones tunes lol

Try singing Delilah before a tune like this,and use it as a guide for placement.

I swear it helped me get a meatier sound on my highs.

[Keith]

Yeah, they tune down a half step. I sang along with the tuned down version (before I knew it was tuned down) then recorded what I posted. It was much harder lol. A half step can make so much difference! Thanks for listening and for the advise !

[Felipe Carvalho]

Keith this one needs more work, you brake when you gone higher.

Something that may help is doing the first verses a bit more strong, this way you bring more energy in there which is necessary and its easier to do the passaggio correctly, the way you are doing now its so light that at least with me would leave no room to pass.

This one is not sounding good yet man. Keep it up. About tunning down a half step, try going up a half step, this way you can do the whole chorus and bridge on head voice, less passings.

[Keith]

Keith this one needs more work, you brake when you gone higher.

Something that may help is doing the first verses a bit more strong, this way you bring more energy in there which is necessary and its easier to do the passaggio correctly, the way you are doing now its so light that at least with me would leave no room to pass.

This one is not sounding good yet man. Keep it up. About tunning down a half step, try going up a half step, this way you can do the whole chorus and bridge on head voice, less passings.

Thanks brp - The version I sang was in correct tuning, the live version from the original band is a half step down (in case you didn't realize it). Though, tuning it up would have it's benefits :)