You Don't Know Me- practice

[MDEW]

Yes, this is an Elvis Presley song. But you need not worry about me trying to sound like Elvis. I am Playing and singing 4 notes higher than him. More in the pitch area of Michael Grimm, Ray Charles and Michael Bolton.

Any tips or comments welcome.

[MDEW]

Is it that bad or just no interest because it is not Iron Maden, Foreigner or DIO? Maybe next time I will Take it up a few more keys and try to sing it like Michael Jackson.

I am writing to myself here anyway......:| anybody have an emoticon for crickets chirping? :cool:

[Gneetapp]

Hey MDEW, it doesn't sound like Elvis at all...

It actually sounds like you wrote the song! I really liked it man! You got a nice timbre going on. But let me tell you, I think you still need to work on the high notes so you can transition better, because IMO it sounds a bit awkward, almost forced. I don't know if those notes are on the top of your current range, or in your passaggio, but you need to get them stronger (I don't mean louder). Other than that, I think you sounded great! Congrats and keep on rocking man! :cool:

[MDEW]

Yes, I am working on the higher notes(passaggio area). It is getting better.

I have always liked this and had only heard the Elvis Version until a few weeks ago. I knew I could not sound like Elvis.

I have a TIP for you. If you like a song but do not want to emulate the singer and find your own style for it look it up on Youtube. Listen to other people singing it. I found this with Michael Bolton, Michael Buble, Michael Grimm(and that was just a few Michaels ), Nora Jones, Dianna Krall, Willy Nelson, Kenny Loggins, Harry Connick Jr and was written by Ray Charles.

None of those guys or gals sounded like Elvis or used the same style of music. Why should I have to?

[Gneetapp]

Hey MDEW, I agree with you 100%! If you are doing covers do it with your own voice, your way. I usually do that when I want to see what other people have done with a song.

Let me ask you something, if you don't mind. In which notes are you breaking/choking, flipping? Do you have the same problem when doing vocalizes or scales, or is it just when you put in words? Cheers and keep on rocking!

[MDEW]

Hey MDEW, I agree with you 100%! If you are doing covers do it with your own voice, your way. I usually do that when I want to see what other people have done with a song.

Let me ask you something, if you don't mind. In which notes are you breaking/choking, flipping? Do you have the same problem when doing vocalizes or scales, or is it just when you put in words? Cheers and keep on rocking!

I rerecorded the vocals last night because when I got to the part "Lucky Guy" it sound wonkey. Then in the part "Afraid and Shy, I let my chance GO by" I think Go was wierd because I keep hearing Elvis in my head. When He starts that phrase he sings Really Deep on it.

I am playing this in the key of E and that high note is F#4 . G4 has been my breaking note. Most of the song is in my Passaggio area.

I was thinking that the high note is G#4 but I just played the melody on my guitar and it is F#4.

[Gneetapp]

Yeah, so we got our break in the same area. I think you did well, considering that the song is right in your break. So, you really have to work to overcome this obstacle and smooth it out. I guarantee you will feel so much powerful and amazing when you got the key to unleash your voice my friend. Until just a few months ago I couldn't sing Hotel California verses without yelling (F#4) and not even get to the chorus (A4). But now, this song comes so much easier, that it is unbelievable. Don't give up and keep working on this bridge man!

But the other part of my question was, can you sing through your passagio doing vocalizes? Cheers

[MDEW]

Check out my other thread 'Never been to Spain" The top note is G#4. I just posted an updated version. That last recording was much easier to sing.

I haven't figured out what is the correct sound to follow in my Vocalizes. I can slide seemlessly from C3 to C5 depending on which sound I follow. Even that is hard to explain.

Like starting with a Yogibear sound ending in an Elmo sound or ending in a Witchy sound... The transition can be seemless but the chang is there. So if I am singing a melody and the note goes from a D4 to a B4 you will still have yogi singing low notes and Elmo singing high notes.(just using that as an example so you can imagine what I mean).

I do not loose vocal fold connection. It does not go from Modal to Falsetto but the timber and texture changes.

[Gneetapp]

Hey MDEW, I checked your cover of Never been to Spain, and commented.

I think I know what you mean regarding the vocalizes. I used to be able to sing really high notes during vocalizes at home, but whenever I got band practice, I would just go into yelling mode and would not sing any of those high notes. I think this has to do with those vowels that Ronws keeps talking about. You could try practice the sounds/vocalizes with several different vowels, so you would get a sense of where they go. It may take time until you get your break thru, but once you get it, you just need to work on the right coordination to build muscle memory.

[MDEW]

Hey MDEW, I checked your cover of Never been to Spain, and commented.

I think I know what you mean regarding the vocalizes. I used to be able to sing really high notes during vocalizes at home, but whenever I got band practice, I would just go into yelling mode and would not sing any of those high notes. I think this has to do with those vowels that Ronws keeps talking about. You could try practice the sounds/vocalizes with several different vowels, so you would get a sense of where they go. It may take time until you get your break thru, but once you get it, you just need to work on the right coordination to build muscle memory.

I read your comment on the Never been to Spain thread. I may have a mental block from the "real men do not Cry" mentality that I grew up with but I just cannot find that coordination.

The "WHAAA" from twang I can get. The "OOOHHH" I have a tummy Ache sound I can get. But the tilted larynx from "Cry" I have not found.

I think the coordination that you mean is what CVT calls "Curbing" ( Cry with a Hold). I have not been able to find that coordination in my voice.

[Gneetapp]

How about the puppy sound?! hehe

[MDEW]

How about the puppy sound?! hehe

I can make the sound but have not been able to extend it in a slide.

[Gneetapp]

Hey buddy, you know I'm no vocal teacher and not even an advanced student, but it would be my pleasure to share with you a few things that helped me to overcome my passaggio, although I still need a lot of work to smooth it out. If you want we could have a little chat over Skype. Just send me an e-mail and let me know what you think. Cheers!

[MDEW]

Thanks I do not have a Skype account yet. Still living in the Dark ages. But I will drop you an Email later on.

I may confiscate a computer with a Camera from work soon so I can Skype. (It's OK I am the Boss. I repair broken computers) :P

[ronws]

Your vowels are so much better. The only stumble I heard was on the word "tight." You dipthonged and that created a wobble. I would stick to your beautiful "ee" for that one. Even if it seems like you are singing "teat," it will be better. And humurous to those of us who know a little old English.

[MDEW]

Thanks Ronws. I think that is my problem also with "Guy". Although I do not think Gee will work on that one Those nasty dipthongs always get in the way.

[The Aspiring Singer]

Nice work! How long have you been working on the song?

To me, it seems like it just needs some more time on your voice. At first, I thought it was going to be just a half or whole step too high, but there are some really nice moments when you sing the highest note where it really seems like it's in a sweet spot. There are other times when you are approaching that same note where it doesn't seem so "sweet." Right around :34, the word "hiding" sounds great. The word "beating" right afterwards is just not quite on the pitch. There are a few places where the intonation is suffers, like the first time you sing "you don't know me." You're a little bit sharp on that phrase.

Most of the time, you're spot on. Sometimes you're a little flat, sometimes a little sharp. I think that a lot of these issues will fix themselves with time and practice. And the more you spend time with the song, the more you'll find your own voice in the song and it the more it will become a unique cover. I listened to a little bit of Michael Buble, Norah Jones and Ray Charles doing their covers, and obviously their covers are done with their signature sounds. I don't know your signature sound. (I'm struggling a little to explain my thoughts on this.) Your version is not bad... it's just okay. I feel like that sounds harsh and I'm not trying to be overly critical. I assume that since you post here regularly and that you're asking for feedback, that you're looking to improve. One way to improve is to find your own original voice so that when you do covers, it's compelling to the listener. It takes a familiar song and draws us in because it's unique enough while still maintaining the integrity of the song. The only way to find that original voice within a song is to spend some time with it.

I found this Facebook post by Ben Folds a few weeks back and I think he explains it far more eloquently than my weak attempt here.

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I hope that's helpful. If not, I won't be offended if you disregard my commentary! :)

[MDEW]

Thanks for your comments Aspiring,

Evidently what has been my signature sound is too high larynx, twangy, lacks support and riddled with inconsistencies. So I have been experimenting.

I know this song from Elvis and only recently heard the other versions. Mainly Michael Bolton, Michael Grimm, and Ray Charles. These versions are similer in style to each other but not like Elvis' version. So my version is my memory of Elvis singing + the higher key of the others and my own natural phrasing(Good or Bad).

The only real time that I put into learning the song was during the recording. About 2 1/2 hours for a 3 1/2 minute song.

I am using songs like this to help me with passaggio and the higher notes. The key of D would be closer to my natural range. That would sit between Elvis' version and Ray Charles version.

Thanks for the tips. It is good to know from someone else which words seem in the POCKET and Which words are lacking. It gives a good reference to the singer for improvement.

[ronws]

Thanks for your comments Aspiring,

Evidently what has been my signature sound is too high larynx, twangy, lacks support and riddled with inconsistencies. So I have been experimenting.

I know this song from Elvis and only recently heard the other versions. Mainly Michael Bolton, Michael Grimm, and Ray Charles. These versions are similer in style to each other but not like Elvis' version. So my version is my memory of Elvis singing + the higher key of the others and my own natural phrasing(Good or Bad).

The only real time that I put into learning the song was during the recording. About 2 1/2 hours for a 3 1/2 minute song.

I am using songs like this to help me with passaggio and the higher notes. The key of D would be closer to my natural range. That would sit between Elvis' version and Ray Charles version.

Thanks for the tips. It is good to know from someone else which words seem in the POCKET and Which words are lacking. It gives a good reference to the singer for improvement.

And I could offer you the same advice you gave me about arranging. It's okay, at least in my book, to change to a key that works better for a particular song.

I lowered the key of "Sunday Morning" per your suggestion.

I raised the key of "Ice Cream Man" to keep me in the bright and rompy area that a fun song should exhibit.

Others, I sing in the original key.

I find song choice, key, and arrangement to be more significant than I previously thought.

[MDEW]

And I could offer you the same advice you gave me about arranging. It's okay, at least in my book, to change to a key that works better for a particular song.

I lowered the key of "Sunday Morning" per your suggestion.

I raised the key of "Ice Cream Man" to keep me in the bright and rompy area that a fun song should exhibit.

Others, I sing in the original key.

I find song choice, key, and arrangement to be more significant than I previously thought.

And that advice would not be lost on me. If recording a true cover or even an original song recording go for the key that you and the song benifit from.

For this song I found the Key that each of the singers where in. Elvis=Bb, Michael Buble=C, Michael Grimm and Ray Charles=E, Michael Bolton= F . I also believe that the Key itself adds its own character to the song. Bb has a melancholy feel to it where E has a more Energetic feel.

I am trying to get out of my comfort zone without going too far. My tone has always lacked depth and fullness so I am trying new things. It also helps that the Key E is way easier to play on the guitar than the key of Bb. :)

[Garnet]

Oh I do love a good tenor. As for Iron Maiden - psh. Don't like em anyway Lovely playing! Generally you sounded really nice, and your emotion was great. I do have some notes though.

Watch you support yourself and don't go nasal on those higher notes, they sound pushed out through the nose to me. I love the lower notes. There was a lot of straight tone in this, I would have liked to hear more vibrato especially on the higher held notes; it would have probably helped break up the nasal-ness I heard there also. Some support work and perhaps trying to approach the note from above in your mind would help with those high notes. I would also like to hear them in chest voice if you can manage it; some more projection would have helped drive home the emotional performance for me.

I liked it over all, though, and I think your performance was great. Some technical issues that can definitely be fixed with practice!

[MDEW]

Thanks Garnet and welcome to the forum. All good points and things that I have been working on. Any tips on how to make progress? :cool:

[Garnet]

Support, support, support! Manage that breathing, make sure you have plenty air, and project! Use that space in your throat (finding it is easy! Just yawn. You feel that? thats the space you wanna be using) and make sure your diaphragm is moving as you sing. Resonance, or vibrations, should be in chest unless of course you're using falsetto. I would love to hear you on these notes in chest, however, so don't be afraid to project and really go for those notes.

I have no idea what you know and what you don't so I'm just giving out the advice for support I generally give. Let me know if any of this is old news to you and what aspects of it you may be struggling with. Hope it helps

[MDEW]

Thanks for the tips. I know I am breathing correctly to have enough air. I may be suspending the breath too much for proper air movement. Most of the suggestions on support have been to hold back the air flow. Too much air over the folds will dry them out......You want to really cut back on that air...... things like that.

I can create the same feeling(lung pressure) as a full out scream and yet have half the volume. What I have not learned how to do is let out that scream with full volume.

[Garnet]

my suggestions is yell the crap out of the song. Get the volume out on in that key, up there, doesn't matter if its not pretty. Then when you have the volume in that range, work on the pitch. That's how I learned to belt, anyway.