jonpall

I disagree with akarawd, though, that you can only hear rasp on the word "tough". I can hear it in many places. For example, just in the very first scentence. It usually sounds great, except in certain places where you constrict a bit too much like f.ex. in "union's been on strike".

Let's just go over the beginning of the song: "Tommy used to work on the docks": This sounds very good the way you sing it here - great tone, attitude, rasp, pitch, etc. I've got nothing but good stuff to say about this. Next line... "Union's been on strike": Here you get slightly too raspy and nasally for my taste. Perhaps your clenching your throat and tensing it too much? "He's down on his luck": Here, the word "luck" has a bit of an accent. "it's tough, so tough.": Very good! "Gina works the diner all day": Very good! "Working for her man. She brings home her pay for love": MOSTLY good "Mmmm for love": Very good! "She says she's gotta hold on": Ok, but a bit of an accent and nasality on the final word "on" and perhaps slightly on the word before - "hold", but not much, though. "to what we've got": A bit of an accent there. "It doesn't make a difference if we make it or not. We got each other and that's a lot for love": Good pitch and rasp but slight accent. "We'll give it a shot": Slightly off pitch and slightly too thin - you might want to change the vowels a bit to give it more meat. And be more relaxed, even though you give it some energy for that line. "The chorus": Basically some pitch problems are ruining it a bit for you - probably because you got a bit nervous just before singing what a friend of mine consistantly thinks is the toughest rock song to sing, ever Everything in there can be fixed. Good job, man!

Every now and then you rasp just a bit too much for my taste so that it becomes slightly fake. No offence, lol. And sometimes you might rasp just a bit more. But usually you're doing this well, dude. You might want to work a bit on your accent - it's not that thick but still I can hear it and some might also. Your pitch could be slightly better at places but usually it's spot on. But listen to yourself even more carefully than you do right now and try to make it as perfect as you can. No one is perfectly on pitch on every word when they sing live so don't worry. If you fix these issues, which is quite doable for you, as you seem to have good sense of music in general and singing - you'll see huge improvements already and I'm sure you'll see it in people's reaction to you when you sing.

And you can say "(*auto edit*) that, what does he know, he's being a jerk, I'll just do what I've always done...", etc. Fine. What DO I know? Some stuff. That's what I know. But you can also try to listen to what people here are saying, try to figure out which comments make sense to you and which ones don't - and start thinking about what you CAN do and not what you CAN'T do because of money issues or other issues and FIND A WAY to make time to train your voice. And we'll be right here to support you, man. We're all on the SAME boat, Ron - people trying to become a bit better singers than what we already are. Cheers!

And you CAN do a lot to improve your tone, yes! The underlying tonality will always be there, but that wasn't what I was talking about. Having those underlying tonalities there is a GOOD thing. It gives you induviduality. I'm more talking about sounding less heady on the high notes, i.e. more cry and twang and also more right-on-the-money pitch accuracy - all of which can be fixed by vocal exercises. You can rehearse Stairway to heaven for another 31 years but it won't help you until you start putting in the hours of doing a routine from some vocal exercise program. I'd recommend Raise your voice, CVT, etc. I guess that the Pillars set from Robert is good, since people here give it good reviews but I don't have it personally.

The reason my response was perhaps a bit confusing could be because it is simple. You just need to get yourself a good vocal program and train your ass off. How can you expect to improve as a singer if all you do is sing songs? No one can, except some children, who just stumble onto good technique and then they often lose it when they're much older because they never understood what they were doing. Tone and pitch is not everything in singing, although they are important. Overall attitude, how you pronounce the words and the way you convey the story behind the song are even more important. Etc., etc. But here are some things that you could improve, since you asked. I hear this over and over in your singing and I'm being kind by telling you stuff that's maybe hard to hear but I'm not going to just think them behind your back. This is a forum for people to learn from. You sometimes slide too much up to pitches. You sometimes get slightly flat or sharp. You tend to get too heady for your high notes - if you studied holding back air with a "cry" sound or a "twang" sound, it would help you. Sometimes you're out of rythm. But these are all things that you could DEFINITELY fix with VOCAL EXERCISES. You don't need to post examples of your songs over and over here. You just need to train. You have all the capabilities of becoming a great singer. You love music and you're heart is in singing. You might go as far as to say that you were born to sing, as it seems to be one of the things you love most in life. But you need direction, whether it comes from a book or a living instructor. Trust me, I've heard far, far worse singers than you. You're already ahead of so many singers out there. But why settle for "good enough"? You want to become great, don't you? Ok, I'm going to stop rambling. I just want you to know that I'm not telling you this to be mean. There are no negative forces behind my comments. Only positive ones. I want you to go away from this forum a better singer. You CAN do it. You have the experience, talent and wisdom to do so. You just need to polish those talents. Like I said before, your range is already miles ahead of most singers. Good luck with it, dude! :)

I'm mostly talking about singing lessons, this being a singing forum, although guitar lessons would help. And I'm talking about improving your voice in general, not specifically on this track. You have the range but need to improve your tone and pitch, pretty much. It will not do you any good if everyone says that you don't need to fix anything if they hear something that needs to be fixed. This site should be for helping people. I'm not going to be as blunt as Simon Cowel but the tone and pitch issues is something that CAN be fixed with lessons and you'll be so glad you did. And if you can't afford lessons (I can relate to that), you can always try to save some cash to purchase some instructional material. Here's something you can start off with as good basics, even though it's not organized (you'll have to figure that out for yourself if you want it badly enough (I did)): Have a nice day!

One of your better ones, Ron, actually! Both the vocal and the guitar playing. I still think your next step would be to get some lessons.

What's the bio on the dog in the second video?

Ron, do you have any vocal instructionals like the Four Pillars, Raise your voice, CVT, SLS, or something? Do you have a vocal coach? I'm asking because I know you love to sing a big variety of songs but I can't recall you having said that you own any instructional. I think that would help you a lot. It helps anyone, in fact. There were good bits in that take of yours, actually, it wasn't all that bad, but some spots were not as good. Just get your self some good instructional program and/or a vocal coach, especially if you want to take your singing to a next level and maybe have some fun again with a band (you're not in one at the moment, right?). Have a nice day!

You've got the sound pretty well down, now it's time to fix those pitch issues. Good job on a song most people can't even try to sing!

Freddie, great job on this one. That's a very tough song and you did very well. Not many people can do it as well as you did. I think you should work a bit on improving your pitch and, for a few weeks, really work on not sliding up to notes as much (because that can often increase the chances of being pitchy). This is what Steven Fraser calls "onset" training - really working on the beginning of words and having them as perfect as you can - as opposed to begin the word somewhat week and then make it sound good after a few milliseconds. I hope you get what I mean. I'm not saying that you do this all the time - just every now and then, which might bother the occasional listener. And note that I'm being VERY picky in order to try to help you. Your pitch is already very good. I'm just suggesting that you get it to a god-like level But also keep doing what you've been doing and make sure not to strain in your throat and you should get better and better. Have a nice day!

You don't sound hobby-singerish at all. There is some very beautiful, almost vulnerable quality in your voice that only some people have, or dare to let people hear, so remember this - as you train your voice more and more in the future, don't forget how to sing the way that you do here. I think that sound comes out when you're relaxed, particularly in your throat. Post this song to chicks, they'll love it, lol. ;)

Snejk: Do you want to hear the good news or the bad news first? Sorry too late!! I'm gonna tell you the bad news first... Ok, just every now and then you try to imitate Klaus by singing slightly nasal - he does sound nasal every now and then but not always. But this is the part that I don't like all that much in your clip. When you're not trying to sound like yourself - the best version of yourself you can be, your sound simply gets a little worse. So I'd suggest you stop trying to imitate a very specific sound that some other singer has and listen to what's special about your own voice. Secondly, very late in the song you had slight pitch problems. But to be fair, they were very small and this was an unedited take (no studio recordings are so all other singers sometimes drop a bit out of tune so you're in good company). I'm almost certain that you went out of tune because of lack of confidence in your voice. So start to believe that you're a good singer, relax more, breath more relaxed and the pitch problems will happen far less frequently. On to the good news: So, when you were not trying to copy Klaus, which was actually the majority of the time, I really loved your take! And I love that song. You did a great take my friend and you're already a good singer with a great sounding voice! It was MUCH, MUCH better than you described it. But that's common for beginning singers Your core sound is great, you have good vibrato, great pitch, good sense for melody and music in general and in no way do I think that it's impossible for you to gain some range if that's what you want. But I suggest that you just PLAY around with your voice endlessly for many months and stop worrying so much about how you sound - you already sound great my friend - better than the majority of people, IMO. You've just started as a singer, well, pretty much, and you have your life ahead of you to get better and better. Also, if you want to chase that range stuff a bit as a side project, you can start some vocal training via an instructor or a book or a DVD or something. But join a band if you haven't already done so and spend the next many many months and years happy with the great voice you already HAVE. And just know that it WILL improve with time. There are lots of people here that can help you add some range with time but play, play and play with what you have without worries and be happy. And get on stage, dude. Cheers.

"We are Borg. This is just how we talk".

That "lazy" sound of yours is perfect for this song, even though it might not work for a Megadeath cover. I like it. And I'm sure you could sing with several different sounds, depending on the song choice.

Thanks Michele Not everyone that hears this is going to be as kind as you guys, though, but that's quite ok with me. Note that I can't do it this well every time, but that's what the studio is for, right? Still, there are a few pieces in there that bother me slightly and I'm going to work on fixing them. I think it's about getting all those vowels absolutely perfect every time...

I liked the song and I think you sang it really well! It's time to start liking your voice a bit more It could also be helpful for us to know what exactly you DISLIKE about your voice. IMO, for this type of music, your voice is perfect. And I'm sure it will work for lots of other types of music as well.

You are a very good singer and are soooo close to really NAILING this song. I don't claim to be an expert at this but in my opinion, the reason one can hear strain on SOME (not all) of the high notes, is because you're using the wrong vowels for them. All of those highest notes should be slightly altered to one of these three vowels, if you want to sing it similar to Sam and Terence: Ih as in "sit", Uh as in "hungry" and O as in "woman". If you have the CVT book, check out the section on "curbing" and read it over and over until you know it by heart. I'm sure that similar things can be found in many, many other books. It's basically the infamous "mix" sound that we all love to hate - or vice versa. F.ex. for the first few high notes, you sing the word "much". Here you do great because you're using a perfect vowel and doing it spot on - Uh as in "hungry". It's debatable whether or not you should give QUITE as much volume in those words as you do - but that's a matter of taste. You could also lower the volume SLIGHTLY and keep that "cry" or "hold" in the tone and it's sound just a good, if not better. Now, on to when you sing the phrase "but I DO know.." - Here I think I here the vowel Oo as in "use" a bit too much so you strain ever so slightly and get off pitch slightly and probably have a hard time sustaining that word on that pitch. Try modifying that vowel to O as in "woman" and it should surprise you how much easier it is. It's the same thing with the phrase "and I KNOW that if you want me to" - you're using the vowel Oh as in "so" for the word KNOW and I think it would sound better to direct it more towards the vowel Uh as in "hungry" (it sounds strange to do that, I know, but try it and don't go ALL the way to Uh, but somewhere between Oh and Uh until you feel you stop straining). You CAN use the Oh vowel here but it will always sound shouty and in this song I don't think you want that. It might sound a bit too much like a Broadway singer covering the song. I hope you don't mind me writing down what I think about this. But IMO, you only really need to fix those minor little details (although they might take you a while to really master) and then the strain will be much less. I repeat, it already sounds VERY good - you're very good singer with excellent pitch and feel and a LOT of people will never hear any strain in that take you just did. Peace! jonpall.

Note that if you don't want the ee's and the oo's to sound too "shouty" when you're getting close to the male high C, which will happen if you modify them to Eh (as in "stay") and Oh (as in "so"), you can also try to modify the ee to Ih (as in "sit") and the oo to Uh (as in "hungry"). I would suggest you'd use those vowels instead. In fact, when you're singing, high with medium to a bit loud volume, using mostly the vowels Ih, Uh and and O (as in "woman") is something I really recommend (in CVT terms, that would be the mode they call curbing).

Thanks guys! Steven Fraser, what has been helping me lately with those type of songs is practising some things you've been writing a lot about here, i.e. about vowel modifications and onsets. So thanks for that! This stuff is still freaking hard to do well and I still consider myself a beginner at this. Have a nice day, all.

Hi, guys! I've been working a lot lately on singing with a relatively clean tone in the tenor range for hard rock music and thanks to the help of my friends on this fantastic forum, I feel that I've learned a lot and made some progress. For the past 2 days I was recording and mixing my voice against a backing track I found for The Scorpions' song "Still loving you", which is a song I've always loved. I used standard recording techniques like eq-ing, comping, compressing, adding slight reverb, but no auto-tuning ... and that's pretty much it. I know it's not perfect yet, but hopefully one day I can sing some of my favorite songs, which are quite difficult to sing, and do them fair justice. Hope you like it! I put the song on both speedyshare and box.net, so just use the site you prefer as the tracks are identical: http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22750752/Still_loving_you.mp3 http://www.box.net/shared/ezvx6shn65 With regards, jonpall.

Hey man, you did well! This is a very difficult song to sing, I do it myself in my coverband. The fact that you can even hit these notes is an indication that you're well on your way to reach your goals as a singer. I have two tips for you right at the moment: A) Try to sing this type of song, NOT all songs you sing, but only similar songs with that attitude in them, WITH RASP ON MORE NOTES, if not most of them. Most of the time, when you don't have rasp in this take, it lacks attitude. When you have the rasp on, it sounds MUCH better, IMO. This is especially apparant on the very first line. It can't be clean, it needs rasp! But the last few words you sing in the intro has a bit of rasp on them and suddenly you sound awesome and like a pro! Since english is not my native tongue, I can't quite help you with this one, but some vowels of yours are incorrectly done, so this take has a bit of an accent that might tick some people off. For some listeners, it won't matter one bit. Maybe someone else here can chime in and point him out which those vowels are? I just have a hard time explain it, but I still can hear it. It would be cool to hear a re-take of this song with those 2 items fixed, if you can, and then you're on your way to becoming a dangerously good singer After that it done, perhaps the next things to look at, which are not as apparent, are ever so slight intonation problems and lack of confidence. All of which can be fixed. Nice work, man!!

For the fun of it, I'm gonna post 2 more acapella tracks here, Sweet child o' mine and Highway to hell. Later I want to take a shot of them with backing tracks. I didn't want to flood the forum with too many threads so I'm posting them here. In Sweet child, I'm aiming for constant twang, constant thin folds (which means light sound color), constant rasp (which Axl normally does but incidentally, not so much in this song, but I wanted to do it anyway) and a fairly high volume which only comes from the twang and not the thickening of the folds. I do a similar thing in the latter half of Highway to hell, where I sing it with grit, but in the first half, I sing it clean and with a slightly higher palate and lower larynx. So in no case here am I trying to sound exactly like Axl or Bon. The sound on these clips still bothers me a bit, because I always want a thicker sound, but I've come to realize that Axl and those guys actually have a thinner sound going on than many people think. Also, when you mix those type of vocals with the rest of the instruments, it doesn't sound as thin, even though it might sound thin all by itself. But I realize there's tons of room for improvement. Here they are: http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22663071/Sweet_child_-_training_mln_with_grit_in_Eb.mp3 http://www.box.net/shared/hk6335fnvb

Thanks, ronws! Much appreciated.