JonJon

I wasnt thinking Zep at all except that I could really hear some typical Robert Plant yelps and screams being laid over the 2nd bridge. BTW that chord at 2:57ish is the opening chord from Diary of a Madman lol. Its just begging for some Robert Plant/Ian Gillan stuff
 
Zep? I have a lot of Zep influence that comes out from time to time. I havent been in a big Zep phase lately but it will come out when its ready. Here is some old Zeppish stuff
http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-24260.php
http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-25271.php
Those are from Wikiloops about 18 months ago before I was really considering singing. I keep forgetting that stuff is there....I need to put vox on some of it lol
 
Oops, forgot this one lol. IMo major Zep vibe http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-29226.php
 
and...using the same Zeppish drum track
This one I wrote after being inspired by a documentary on John Bonham...hence the title. http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-28253.php    

trust me brother, you aint heard nothin' yet

Definitely reminiscent of Zep with the slight haze of a funny cigarette of rolled up Zappa and Mothers of Invention. Way cool, I really like this. And I think you are achieving the Jimmy Page wall of guitars thing in this one.

I wasnt thinking Zep at all except that I could really hear some typical Robert Plant yelps and screams being laid over the 2nd bridge. BTW that chord at 2:57ish is the opening chord from Diary of a Madman lol. Its just begging for some Robert Plant/Ian Gillan stuff
 
Zep? I have a lot of Zep influence that comes out from time to time. I havent been in a big Zep phase lately but it will come out when its ready. Here is some old Zeppish stuff
http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-24260.php
http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-25271.php
Those are from Wikiloops about 18 months ago before I was really considering singing. I keep forgetting that stuff is there....I need to put vox on some of it lol
 
Oops, forgot this one lol. IMo major Zep vibe http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-29226.php
 
and...using the same Zeppish drum track
This one I wrote after being inspired by a documentary on John Bonham...hence the title. http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-28253.php    

Hi JonJon, I liked it. I could totally feel the Zeppelin vibe in the verses, but I also picked up some AIC/STP in the chorus (especially the instrumental part). Even though I'm not a big fan of the psychedelic style, I liked it, and I honestly think this song deserves to be polished and finished. I felt that the first "I call on the maker" phrase in the chorus, sounded weird (for my personal taste). You are a writing/recording machine. Keep on rocking man!

I dig it

Here's a song I've been working on in the studio. I really liking the way it"s turning out. I have to go back for an hour or two and fix a few things and make a few tweaks but its sounding pretty cool I think. The song took me about 15 minutes to write and it's turning out to be one of my favorites. I love how all the instruments are coming together.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0uKdHc6dVQQ

Hi JonJon, if you want to go for a heavier sound you could try tuning your guitar with dropped D and play those bar chords riffs. 

Im probably going to ditch this one lol
going to attempt to get closer to an AIC/STP sound.
So far nothing I have done has been heavy enough for my tastes. My voice is too freaking clean for one thing lol...then when I double it, it just gets more weird sounding. Definitely gotta get more rasp.distortion in there.
Putting me a nice drum track together now...nice 82 BPM vibe lol
Gonna go for something with less syllables so I can actually sustain some notes
 
One problem I have as far as heavy stuff....I simply can NOT get a really heavy guitar sound. Its funny cuz ive got a Peavey 6505+ combo which is supposed to ONLY be good for really heavy stuff. People were saying you could NOT get a bluesy tone from it. Im the opposite...ALL I can get from it is crunchy/bluesy/classic rock vibes lol. (on this recording I just used my fender solid state amp with a pedal in front)

sounds great just watch out for pitch. 

wow, you just outlined my whole approach!

The accomplishment I'm talking about doesn't come from praise. If this was the case I would not have spent several "monies" on music instruments and recording equipment. I believe you feel the same, or else you would have stopped a long time ago...
Yeah, you can take the "higher" path and improve your talent
I think You are doing pretty good for someone who learned how to "bridge" 2 weeks ago. I "learned" how to bridge and access my higher range 1-2 years ago. Of course learning by myself, being lazy and inconsistent in the training do not help at all... 
Yeah! That's the spirit! I'm glad I could help! ;-)
 

JonJon, so that is the question my friend: why do you write and record songs? If it gives you pleasure and a sense of accomplishment, just do it man! You could also create a Soundcloud account and post your songs there. I bet you would get tons of followers and even collaboration requests. I am not saying that all your songs are 100% ready, pro-level, radio/consumer-ready, but man, you definitely have a lot of talent that should not go to waste. I wish I had more free time in my hands at the moment to dedicate to music (singing, playing guitar, recording, and performing), because I would ask you to collaborate with me on some compositions, as I think it would be so much fun. I think it would be a crime if you don't come back to finish this song, now that you now it kicks serious arse. Congrats man!

hehe, AFAIK its original. Every time I come up with a riff or melody or lyric I always wonder if its just not a note for note ripoff of something I heard before lol
The melody. I did NOT have lyrics first. The first line is sort of my paraphrase of the Bible parable where He says "I dont know you or where you come from" lol. The lyrics were sort of worked out along with the melody. I leave it sort of flexible until I start singing. Like the line where it says "this might be a good TIIIME for you" had also been considered as "this might be a good good time". I had to sing that line numerous times. All of those high notes were a struggle because its right near the top of my range
I sort of decided the song would be in Drop D since the drums were more on the metal side and I havent done any Drop D stuff in a while. I think I had decided in my head to start on a high note and then descend to start the first phrase. So actually I did work out the melody on guitar.
I think I laid down some D chords or whatever just to get going. Then I started looking for a note near the top of my range but that I knew I could get. I just decided on G# since thats the flat 5 of D minor and it worked out conveniently. I just started on the G# and started goofing off working phrases going down. If I remember correctly I was goofing off working out the phrase by manually playing it against the low D string....playing at the 10th fret
Then the 2nd phrase "I aint really got time" is just ascending D minor pentatonic
I didnt work out every little nuance on the guitar. I was using 2 tracks for scratch guitar ideas. I had the general gist of the melody as one of those tracks but I didnt try to work out every little phrase. I just put down the main contours. For the phrase "to figure it out" im pretty sure I had something a little different laid down but when I got to singing it I just went with what felt natural
Not all of the BGV were worked out on guitar. Most of them were just a higher or lower octave or I just went by feel. The very lowest line is almost monotone which is sort of like the way he does it in Aerosmiths "Nobodys Fault" when he says 'Out of rhyme or reason..everyone's to blame" etc. He has the regular vocal melody but then he overdubbed a line that is pretty much just one monotone note
There is one actual harmony in there which is essentially a 5th lower. Now that one I had to work out on guitar because Im not to the level to hear that stuff in my head. I worked out the first part on guitar and then sort of went by feel on singing it once I sort of heard what it was going to be like. I muted all of the other vocal tracks and just pretended I was working out the melody started from that lower point.
I think I had most of the melody worked out and then I started working on finalizing the guitar chords etc. I sort of matched the opening descending vocal riff with the descending guitar line and then I goofed off and figured out I like the C chord and G major chord. The G chord was fingered like this, low to high 5x04xx and then on the 2nd guitar it was x554xx
So I had "scratch" versions of the guitar work laid down and I then put down all of the vocals. Then I went back and redid all of the guitars. On the scratch parts I hadnt even tuned the guitar lol. So I did get worried for a second hoping that all of those vox I laid down were actually in D hehe. Luckily when I checked my D string it was in tune lol. So I went back and redid all of the guitars and about 90% of that stayed the same
An interesting thing on the bass line. The first time I play C on guitar I played an F bass note lol. I just liked the way it sounded. On the guitar I almost did the same thing. On guitar it gives a nice big suspended sound that a lot of drop D guys use but I was worried that it might be a bit much since the song was already going to be pretty congested etc
bass line with rhythm gtr--> https://clyp.it/wssigf3n
 
to be dead honest....dunno if the song will ever get completed now lol. Thats the downside to NOT doing a one day wonder. Finishing songs is like eating leftovers. The original thrill is gone lol.
 
I aint gonna lie. Its pretty discouraging. Why spend all this time writing songs etc when maybe 20 people tops will ever hear them? lol
I can post it to my Fbook friends list. I think I have 143 friends currently. MAYBE 5 of them will even post a like and one of those will be my mother.
I have 2 coworkers that play guitar. One of them also writes originals and is a frontman. I used to message him when I wrote a new song, or id burn him a CD and bring it to work. I dont even bother now because he wont even really comment or he may say "yeah that was cool". I dont even waste his or my time anymore. Heck. he and I actually did 2 songs together which came out really cool. One was his and one was mine. That was before I sang so I got him to sing and play slide guitar. I wanted to work with him some more but it never worked out for whatever reasons. I guess he wants to do his own thing and be in total control. So for instance I wont even bother playing this snippet for him
So in that regard I cant EXACTLY answer why I spend time messing with music. Im assuming it must bring some sort of inner pleasure lol. I dang sure must not do it for external feedback lol
 
 

Going by GneeTaps suggestion, I wrote a chorus only today. Worked numerous hours for an 11 second snippet lol.
workflow was along these lines:
1) Drums programmed yesterday
2) Started writing melody in D...starting on the highest note and working down. Starting note is (supposed to be anyway lol) a G#4 which is the flat5 in the key of D
3) started putting down a few scratch guitar parts using practice amp
4) sort of bounced back and forth between finalizing the melody and changing the guitar to fit better
5) Sang all the lead VX
6) Layered all the BGV. 4 separate lines, all doubled. It gets a little into the Eagles/Queen/Boston/Yes vibe
7) Redid all the guitar parts (still just used practice amp though). 2 main parts, both doubled
8) added bass
9) mixed....while falling asleep about 10x
 
Anyway, let me know how it sounds. if nothing else its pretty interesting
Here are all the various parts....pretty trippy hearing the layered vocal track by itself
 
Full snippet https://clyp.it/41g4esi0
Rhythm Track https://clyp.it/joo5tv4l
Full vocal tracks https://clyp.it/155rws0y
Lead Vx only, definitely at the top end of my range https://clyp.it/uv0tgitn 
BGV only, 4 separate parts, each doubled (see if u can pick out the parts) https://clyp.it/bvfb0lkn
 
 Enjoy
 

FREAKING A.W.E.S.O.M.E.!!!!!
Those several hours working on just 11s worth of music really paid off.
This chorus sounds great man! Hard Rock, radio-ready, compelling rhythm, good guitar riff, and great vocals! If you didn't tell me I could easily assume it was a cover song. I am so jealous of you now, but in a good way.
Technical question: how did you come up with the melody? Did you sing it or play in an instrument? Did you already have the lyrics before the melody?
Congrats JonJon, and I can't wait to listen to the whole song when is ready. Keep them coming! 

Pretty dang cool. Made me think of the Motor City Madman.
And, in my neck of the woods, that is a compliment.
 

Going by GneeTaps suggestion, I wrote a chorus only today. Worked numerous hours for an 11 second snippet lol.
workflow was along these lines:
1) Drums programmed yesterday
2) Started writing melody in D...starting on the highest note and working down. Starting note is (supposed to be anyway lol) a G#4 which is the flat5 in the key of D
3) started putting down a few scratch guitar parts using practice amp
4) sort of bounced back and forth between finalizing the melody and changing the guitar to fit better
5) Sang all the lead VX
6) Layered all the BGV. 4 separate lines, all doubled. It gets a little into the Eagles/Queen/Boston/Yes vibe
7) Redid all the guitar parts (still just used practice amp though). 2 main parts, both doubled
8) added bass
9) mixed....while falling asleep about 10x
 
Anyway, let me know how it sounds. if nothing else its pretty interesting
Here are all the various parts....pretty trippy hearing the layered vocal track by itself
 
Full snippet https://clyp.it/41g4esi0
Rhythm Track https://clyp.it/joo5tv4l
Full vocal tracks https://clyp.it/155rws0y
Lead Vx only, definitely at the top end of my range https://clyp.it/uv0tgitn 
BGV only, 4 separate parts, each doubled (see if u can pick out the parts) https://clyp.it/bvfb0lkn
 
 Enjoy
 

I always wonder how they come up with some of these more offbeat sections
 
 
or
 
 
I think generally my singing skills have really limited my writing so far. With me its just getting some chords and then just trying to sing anything that fits lol. As my singing gets stronger ill be able to be more flexible

I probably do something like that but more on a subconscious level. Its almost a rule that im going to go off key in the solo or bridge section. So I just work backwards. Like if the song is in E minor and im going to come back in on a prechorus on a C chord...then for the solo I might go to whatever chords but I end on a G7 to go to that prechorus C and im back in my original key. Even the G7 alone is "out of key" compared to the original key of e minor because G7 has that F note. So the solo could even be fmaj7th, G7th which would be a nice change from the eminor key but the g7th goes to the C which goes back in key
 
We dont have to look far for an example. Look above at Minnesota Mama lol. Song is E. So it goes to a little bridge in E but then for the solo it goes F#7, A7, B7....of course the B7 goes right back to the original key of E
going up 2 frets for the solo is pretty easy to do and gives a nice change in feel
Another cool thing for a solo or bridge is to go to the relative major but make it minor. For instance if the song is in eminor you could always go to the relative major of G for a solo....but to make it more interesting you could go to G MINOR
ive stumbled upon some ideas like that but now I have to work backwards and try to learn how to do at least SOME standard stuff lol

haha, I just happen to be listening to Still of the Night as I read your reply.
 
one issue about doing the whole "light verse, build, huge chorus" thing is that after a while u r just writing the same song over and over. Yeah, it works for that quick emotional hit but after hearing 5 in a row from, say, Shinedown....even that formula gets old
A song like Still of the Night, or Emotional Rescue from the Stones....they are more like little acid trips as opposed to formulas
 
U dig Blue Murder and Badlands too?

no I didnt say that I actually changed chords after writing a melody...but one CAN do that. I would generally be waaaay too lazy to do that lol. I have only done that when goofing off BUT its a legit way to do stuff. Same thing can easily be done in a guitar solo. U can solo over plain Jane chords and then go back and redo some of the chords and u could get some wierd and interesting plot twists going on.
Im gonna write today and I think ill try what you mention...just write the melody first and sort of plan out the way it builds etc...then go back and work out chords.
I remember writing the whole bass guitar line out first one time and thinking id never be able to put any cool guitar over it but it worked out good anyway
In a way though its still a learning process because your ear is still your ear. Like I got a friend who writes but he ONLY writes sort of primitive rootsy blues rock with the emphasis on the blues aspect. So if he is in the key of A its either going to be 1,4,5 chords or maybe A,C,D. Thats all thats on his color palette...so whether he does chords first or melody first he still aint gonna come up with, say, a Randy Rhoads/Yngwie diminished chord sequence because its just not in him.

I find it really interesting the way you build your songs, changing the chords after vocals are recorded. I might try it someday. I know that some people start composing a song with the melody (lead vocals), than chords (accompaniment) and lyrics. This way you actually have way more freedom with the melody, without worrying about key or modes (major vs minor). However, I never been able to do this way so far. But maybe I was lacking the vocal skills, better pitch control, or who knows. Anyways, very nice work, and thank you for sharing your techniques. Cheers and keep on rocking

My current process is along these lines:
1) Drums- Ez Drummer2
2) Chords/riffs
3) vocals
 
Thats why in the unfinished state there are often 8 bar "gaps" in my demos. Thats because I programmed in 8 bars on the drums, like in the song intro....I put in chords, but I never put in a vocal parts of guitar licks or whatever.
On this particular song I WAS going for a Beatles thing but not as far as the vocal intro lol. I was actually going for that Beatles/Byrds jangly guitar thing. But I NEVER get what I go for...I just use something like "Beatles vibe" or "Skynyrd vibe" in my thought process. Once I start recording I just let whatever happens happen. If I have 8 hours on an off day I cant spend 4 of those trying to find an elusive gtr tone etc.
So like on this one I put in the verse and chorus vx but then I had that "gap" where I had programmed that drum intro...so I filled it with those sort of abstract "ahhhh" vocals and almost non-sensical chords.
 
Its always "chords first" then melody although on occasion I have sort of done it the other way. To me, how can u come up with an interesting melody without chords? You dont have a framework for the melody etc. So I do chords first and I almost ALWAYS sort of switch keys or borrow chords from other keys or just put in "off" chords but not in a way where its really dissonant.
if u check the backing track to this birthday song, u hear that it goes in an out of key at least 3 times. The intro is sort of not in a really defined key, then the verse is A,G,D in the key of A (so its A mixolydian really)....then the chorus is A major (A,E,D if I remember correctly but probably inverted like A, E/G#, D/F#. One good/bad point with me is that I hardly ever follow strict convention.
Then the bridge is back to A mixolydian, something like G/A, A7 or maybe G, A7. Then the solo goes to A MINOR after the whole song has been in A MAJOR
Happy Birthday Sugarboo backing track https://clyp.it/knt05ks3
 
So thats a way by which I add variety as far as the chords vs melody idea. If I just lay down chords, say, strictly in a major key....then I sing a strictly major melody...how interesting is that going to be? So just by habit I tend to throw in more interesting chords. U can sing a boring melody over interesting chords and all of a sudden the boring melody sounds interesting or even exotic.
Even for me to use A,E,D on the birthday song was a departure for me lol. Im trying to become more conventional though, at least on the chorus...so I can write singable hooks etc. Some of my fave bands like Cheap Trick can take 3 regular chords and make a killer chorus hook. I learned some of my stuff from them I guess like in "If you want my love" where the intro is in E major (or is it A major? I forget)....so they do the Major intro with nice harmony vocals etc and then when the actual verse starts they just abruptly change to MINOR but in the same key lol. I love it
Its almost guaranteed in my songs that the bridge or solo section or both will introduce a new tonality
 
You CAN also play around with the chords AFTER you lay down the melody...which is called reharmonization. Lets say you lay down basic chords in A major. You lay down your melody. Now you go back and mute those chords and you experiment with putting different chords under the existing melody. Thats one way to add to the amount of stuff you can hear because you will come up with combinations of chord/melody which you never could hear in your head without some experimenting.
I did it with the Star Spangled Banner a long time ago on guitar. Keep the melody but change the underlying chords. Very fun. I did it with guitar solos too. I worked out a solo in B minor over chords in B minor. Then I kept the solo in place but played them over an A to G progression. So now my same exact solo was in A mixolydian...which is the same notes as B minor. Though its the exact same solo...it sounds TOTALLY different over those chords. If I would have done chords in pure D major it would have been yet a third sound for that same solo
 
Frank Zappa had a thing he called Xenochromy...where he'd take a solo or part off of one song, in whatever key and whatever tempo.....then he'd drop it in on another song, maybe in a different key and tempo. Maybe the songs were originally played years apart lol. DAWs make stuff like that easy

cool, I have 2 fans now. (u and my mother)
Im not too sure where u thought the melody was going to go higher. In these sort of Rolling Stonesish songs I dont picture them having really wide ranging melodies.
And Im not making excuses, but this and the other one (and virtually all that I do) are one day wonders lol. That means that when I stand to the mic I generally have most of the lyrics written...BUT NO MELODY. And as u say im just starting to bridge registers etc and struggling to even sing in ONE register.....so I doubt ill have too many soaring melodies anytime soon. The closest I may come to that would be as in the other song where it may build from section to section.
on that note though, sometimes the prechorus is actually a higher melody than the chorus
 
So far I havent taken time to work out any BG vox either. Its all a bit much to be honest....and I totally suck at going back and adding to songs. Im one of those people who is ready to start the next project rather than tidy up the previous one. Especially if it only got a lukewarm reception anyway....is adding a tambourine and BGV to the chorus going to all of a sudden make a producer beat down my door???
The whole BGV thing is hard for me to envision at this point anyway. I need to do some woodshedding. for instance lets say I can hit a squeeky B4. So maybe a G4 or G#4 is about my best sung note. Well if I sing that in the melody then what am I going to do for BGV a third higher or whatever?
So it almost seems id have to plan out the whole thing in advance. Pick the right key and start off pretty low and keep the main melody somewhat low in order to leave comfortable singing room to add higher harmonies. Trust me...im the type that could get into a Queen/Yes kind of thing if I were in the right mood. I DO have a short gregorian chant thing posted somewhere lol.
 
there is this evil thing that holds me back and limits my musical progress and sucks the life out of me...its called a JOB lol
 
There is a very low level of reward for even posting these songs anyway lol. You work all day etc and no matter what u put out it will get poopoo'ed.
Even if I took a solid week and polished them to the best I currently can....not a lot would change. If people dont hear a pro production they'll say the whole thing is worthless
 
here is one from 3 weeks ago. (pre bridging) Birthday song for a girl im in love with....who probably didnt even hear the song. Yep, it got savaged too..this sucked, that sucked, this isnt right, that could be better etc etc....at least mom liked it
https://clyp.it/2chj11qz