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Rotten Apple - AIC cover

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incessantmace
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Hi guys! I've been busy training with the Four Pillars for a couple of months now and I'm making good progress. I just recorded this cover of Rotten Apple in one take. I know my timing's a bit off sometimes but I wanted to post this anyway. All I'm looking for is any critique or points I could improve on, really, aside from the timing thing. 

 

It's not the most difficult song but it's quite comfortable for me to sing, and I really love the song. 

 

I also recorded the instrumental track myself, btw.

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Incessantmace,

 

Thanks for having the courage to share with the community and I am pleased to hear that your work with TVS/Pillars is helping you... great. How long have you had "Pillars"?  What aspects of the training program seem to have helped you the most?.. just curious.

 

I am short on time, actually working on the new P4.0 release which will be incredible... but since your my client I want to make sure you don't get ignored... so in regards to your recording.

 

- Nice work making your own bed track, that alone says a lot. What kind of home recording gear are you using?

 

- I like the color of your voice a lot!  It has a real Layne Staley kind of "vibe" to it... I am not familiar with this tune, but I guess it is an AIC tune? 

 

- Your glottal compression is maybe... just a bit "gaggy"... a bit heavy... there is a lot of amplification and color that is coming from the glottal compression, that is ok... but there may be a bit of a concern that if you continue to "grind" the glottis like this it could lead to fatigue... If we were training in a lesson, I would suggest that you get out of the throat a bit and start resonating more in an forward, hard palette EDGING position... you will get more warmth from that and less fatigue on the glottis... and a little bit less "gaging" sound color.. but it will still have the other colors in your voice that we like in your voice... short answer... Edge more to the palette and soften the glottis a bit.

 

NICE WORK!

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I agree, it's a really good effort. I think Robert hit on the main difference between your voice and that of Layne. Layne sounded softer, in a sense. I think you have a cleaner voice, which may very well come from the glottal that Robert was talking about. Anyway, enjoy your learning. You already have good pitch and that is golden, here.

 

Excellent job on the instrumental.

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Incessantmace,

 

Thanks for having the courage to share with the community and I am pleased to hear that your work with TVS/Pillars is helping you... great. How long have you had "Pillars"?  What aspects of the training program seem to have helped you the most?.. just curious.

 

I am short on time, actually working on the new P4.0 release which will be incredible... but since your my client I want to make sure you don't get ignored... so in regards to your recording.

 

- Nice work making your own bed track, that alone says a lot. What kind of home recording gear are you using?

 

- I like the color of your voice a lot!  It has a real Layne Staley kind of "vibe" to it... I am not familiar with this tune, but I guess it is an AIC tune? 

 

- Your glottal compression is maybe... just a bit "gaggy"... a bit heavy... there is a lot of amplification and color that is coming from the glottal compression, that is ok... but there may be a bit of a concern that if you continue to "grind" the glottis like this it could lead to fatigue... If we were training in a lesson, I would suggest that you get out of the throat a bit and start resonating more in an forward, hard palette EDGING position... you will get more warmth from that and less fatigue on the glottis... and a little bit less "gaging" sound color.. but it will still have the other colors in your voice that we like in your voice... short answer... Edge more to the palette and soften the glottis a bit.

 

NICE WORK!

 

Thank you for the quick and detailed response Robert!

I've been training with the 4P for about 3 to 4 months now, I'm not entirely certain as to how long.

What helped most is that Pillars explains clearly how the voice works without alot of ambiguity. The abundance of excercises is also great, as I have a good work ethic if I may say so myself, but before Pillars I had no clue on what or how to train my voice. I always thought I was born with a flat, dull voice that couldn't sing high but now I'm actually starting to be able to listen to my own voice. :P  

Knowing that I have a good training program that works motivates me, as I'm certain that I'll become better if I just keep at it.

 

I'm recording with a Line 6 UX2 hooked to my PC. Vocals through a Rode NT1A. 

 

I understand what you mean with a gaggy, heavy sound. I've been having trouble with that for a while and it's actually a lot better now. My voice was just underdeveloped when I started and I had bad, lazy speaking habits. I don't know if my native language (Dutch) has anything to to with it, but I've been working really hard to get a more quacky, edgy sound to my voice, but it's just that my natural voice was the exact opposite of twangy when I started. So it's taking a lot of work.

When I do the excercises in the FBR I mostly train in edging vowels like EH and AE, doing them as quacky as possible. But when I sing songs I still slip back into old habits I guess.

Are you saying that I should shade more into edging vowels when singing this song, or do I misunderstand?

 

 

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I agree, it's a really good effort. I think Robert hit on the main difference between your voice and that of Layne. Layne sounded softer, in a sense. I think you have a cleaner voice, which may very well come from the glottal that Robert was talking about. Anyway, enjoy your learning. You already have good pitch and that is golden, here.

Excellent job on the instrumental.

Thanks Ron!I appreciate your comment. I'm not really trying to sound like Layne consciously though I sure don't mind the comparisons. :)

I'm working on singing less heavy. It's a lot better already. I've always had bad speaking habits. A very lazy, throaty speaking voice which I think is something that's delayed my progress a little.

I think there is alot less twang in Dutch speaking when compared to American voices and the accent from the area I come from kind of contributes to the lazy and throaty speaking.

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What helped most is that Pillars explains clearly how the voice works without alot of ambiguity. The abundance of excercises is also great, as I have a good work ethic if I may say so myself, but before Pillars I had no clue on what or how to train my voice.

 

Excellent... Yes, that is what I am trying to do... Focus on the basis in the FBR and use the whole system as a reference. Master the onsets, the acoustic modes,  and key elements in the phonation package. Practice, Practice, practice and always make time to sing songs as well after training. You should update the book btw... go to your link and update it... as of yesterday , the new professional layout and design in available.. its a big milestone... no longer "Rob Design" and now has a real professional graphic design.. wow it look incredible now... gorgeous... you got to have it... Anyone that would like the new updated, pretty designed book and has purchased pillars in the last 6 months or so... send me an email with your proof of purchase and Ill get that to you, free of charge... because I'm a swell guy...  ;)

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I am suggesting that you amplify edging vowels so you can replace the brighter harmonics your getting from that glottal grinding, for palette amplification. Same/better sound color, less fatiguing.

 

I can understand how your speaking voice has come a long way... if that is the case, then your doing great... keep going... 

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Thanks Ron!I appreciate your comment. I'm not really trying to sound like Layne consciously though I sure don't mind the comparisons. :)

I'm working on singing less heavy. It's a lot better already. I've always had bad speaking habits. A very lazy, throaty speaking voice which I think is something that's delayed my progress a little.

I think there is alot less twang in Dutch speaking when compared to American voices and the accent from the area I come from kind of contributes to the lazy and throaty speaking.

Someone might easily prove me wrong but I think a number of northern eurpoean languages have less twang than american English.

 

I liked your version and I am glad you were not trying to sound like Layne, though it is certainly good to use him as an influence for phrasing, emotional intention. In fact, I think we can get closer to a singer's style by absorbing their artistic expression more than we might by trying to mechanically or physically recreate the same "set-up."

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I am suggesting that you amplify edging vowels so you can replace the brighter harmonics your getting from that glottal grinding, for palette amplification. Same/better sound color, less fatiguing.

 

I can understand how your speaking voice has come a long way... if that is the case, then your doing great... keep going... 

 

So if I understand correctly I need to phonate in a lighter mass to get out of the throat, then compensating the loss of power by twanging more so I get more adduction on the folds, amplifying the edging vowels? 

 

Someone might easily prove me wrong but I think a number of northern eurpoean languages have less twang than american English.

 

I liked your version and I am glad you were not trying to sound like Layne, though it is certainly good to use him as an influence for phrasing, emotional intention. In fact, I think we can get closer to a singer's style by absorbing their artistic expression more than we might by trying to mechanically or physically recreate the same "set-up."

 

You're probably right, I could use more emotional intention in my singing. I guess I'm just a little too focused on singing properly. 

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You're probably right, I could use more emotional intention in my singing. I guess I'm just a little too focused on singing properly.

Same problem with me bro. If i follow my heart ill kickass but will have tons of mIstakes. If i am technichally as good as i can be but its bland and robotic

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So if I understand correctly I need to phonate in a lighter mass to get out of the throat, then compensating the loss of power by twanging more so I get more adduction on the folds, amplifying the edging vowels? 

 

 

You're probably right, I could use more emotional intention in my singing. I guess I'm just a little too focused on singing properly. 

For me, the quintessential tone of Layne was best found on the "Rooster." The drawn-out phrasing and the juxtaposition of intensity against remorse and sadness.

 

"Walking tall, machine gun man.

They spit on me in my homeland"

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