MDEW

Lovers Cross and Lifetime Lover for me...........Same girl ......... Jim really came through for me.

I always felt like Maury Muehleisen ....... in the background while others got the credit.  Kind of like Steve Goodman to John Prine. ...........   I played Bass and Lead guitar for quite a few bands......background vocals..........

On 3/6/2016 at 5:50 PM, David Mitchell said:

Audio clip of me singing if you need it: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/229171533/Post%20On%20Forum.m4a

Hello! So I've decided I wanna sing, and I need some help. Though I'm 18, I have a relatively high, young sounding speaking voice. What's odd about that is my range feels most comfortable singing the full range from bass to soprano. I know I have the potential to hit the higher notes, and I can, but when I do the notes sound really, REALLY flat, and I really want to learn to correct that. I found some tests online, and I can easily (without strain) go up to c6 but when I do, the notes between c5 and c6 sound so flat ;_; Can you guys give me some tips to help make it sound better?

I think you are really talking about C4 to C5. Again that is still a typical male voice range F2- C5 and slightly above. What you are hearing as "Flat is the sound of "Falsetto". You are also using a configuration for singing that more resembles your Speaking voice, at least the way you use your speaking voice.

Your F2 is even brighter and more solid than mine and I normally speak around the G2 to A2 area. The way you speak can be considered an Accent. You speak light and in the general area of F3 and G3. A coordination for singing is more along the lines of the coordination of "Hulk Hogan" doing a wrestling interview with Mean Gene Okerlund(look that up if you have to). I am not saying you are going to sound like him, only that the coordination would be similar. Dampened larynx, Cord compression and airflow and intensity. The best way to learn this stuff for singing and training Is with a program like the "Four Pillars" a very good program well worth the money. Authored and Taught by Robert Lunte whose post is above.

Even though I have a Lower set voice I have found that I have to imitate Louie Armstrong just to get the sound out of my nose (we all have our own little setbacks). That is another reason to have a program like Roberts, We cannot hear ourselves the way others hear us and our own perceived adjustments can be off in ways we would never know.

44 minutes ago, Jarom said:

I just got back from the studio. I am currently recording an ep and this is a bit of a song I'm working on. Right now it has a scratch vocal, drums, piano, bass, and some pads. 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1QnIhYX2w5p

(I know this should be in review my singing. But it won't let me post there for some reason. I am up to date on my payment as it doesn't end until July. )

I am having trouble posting there also. The problem is being worked on.

I like your tone and the song but I have to mention that I cannot understand the words. It may not matter in this day and age. Some of the words to Nickelback I would rather not know.

"(guitar) play it properly (something I can't do "

Learn the Basics first.........Chords........Progressions.......Rhythm............    The rest is subject to opinion and choices.  First and foremost a single guitar provides a basic rhythm (beat) and basic chord structure accompaniment for the singing.  The rest is embellishment that is learned a little at a time while gaining confidence.  Much faster this way than trying to perfect the embellishments first.

I love Bonnie Rait.  I already thought about learning this. I thought it would look like I was trying to copy Robert or something so I stopped. Good or Bad I'm in.

58 minutes ago, Gneetapp said:

Hi MDew, I thought you've come a long way developing your sound man. I liked your tone throughout the song, except at the bridge, where it sounds like you lost focus. I think you are on the right track with your voice, and with more practice you'll make this song sound really good. I kind of agree with some folks here who say that you might benefit of using support in a better way, so you would be able to stabilize the voice. Even though I don't think that you will sound beefy with more engaged support, as I believe it is just a matter of vocal placement, but I think JonJon made an interesting suggestion of trying to sing/emulate Dickinson or Dio to get a different sound. I think it would be safe and beneficial to you to experiment, as you already know you should not yell to achieve these types of sound. Cheers

Thanks Gneetapp, This was an experiment, Now that I have the idea to use someone else's voice if you do not like the tone, I have been making a little progress. This is a lighter version of Louie Armstrong.

I have been imitating "Speaking" voices since childhood but with "singing" I had the impression from many sources that it should be natural without manipulation. Most Vocal Technique books and Videos on singing would have you do scales and sirens "Slightly Above" your speaking volume and "Relax" extrinsic and intrinsic muscles.

Imitating voices is the opposite of that. Some people may have a natural tendency to compress the vocal folds, engage the twanger and really fill the lungs before speaking but that is not my tendency with normal speech.  For imitating I purposely manipulate these elements.

Luckily for me Roberts Program has you Compress, Twang and Dampen the larynx with purpose for the sake of "Working out" the vocal mechanism. If it was presented to me like that a long time ago I would not be in the shape I am in Vocal wise.

Other programs would have you Do the Meh, Meh, Meh for resonance, Nae, Nae Nae, for twang, Buh, Buh, Buh for compression and Vocal fry for fold closure but they would have them independently with slightly above speech volume never giving the idea that these things are used purposely together ALWAYS.   Robert puts them together with Work flows and that is why there is such a difference in his program than others. AND he shows the intensity and passion that goes into it. 

5 hours ago, JonJon said:

Tony Rice was born in my hometown lol. (though he moved away as an infant)      He did a show here a few years back. he was still getting it pretty good.

 

I gotta say it....you reference your childhood and your perception of families expectations or feedback they gave you or whatever. at some point though, as regards singing, you need to let all of that go

Im only reading between the lines because I dont know your background that well.

Im gathering that you are saying that you came up with a strong bluegrass background, or other traditional "mountain" vocal style. But now you want to get into more traditional, middle of the road rock type sounds

 

In that case maybe youd be better off to actually try to OVERCORRECT a bit.  For instance maybe actually go for a real Dio sound. A really heavy compressed, super supported sound. Or maybe even a Bruce Dickinson tone, which can be a heavy covered sound.

Those sounds are OPPOSITE of what you have now. and you may never actually reach those sounds....but in doing so, you'll probably end up dead in the middle with a good basic rock tone

 

its kind of like if you have $50 and want to become a millionaire. Whats the best way? Well a good way is to aim to make $10 million...then even if you only get halfway there you easily reached the 1 million lol

sometimes it better to make a radical mind shift as opposed to inching along

 

Peace, JJ

I had not even heard of Dickinson, Coverdale, DIO until joining this forum. I did hear of Ronny James Dio but he was singing TeenPop songs in the 50s. Turns out he is the same guy

I bring up the childhood to give the understanding of how a person whose family sings can still have issues of breath management and such after 40 years of singing.  I already had the Low belly breathing with expanded ribs, pretty much  the whole concept that is written down about support involved. In other words I thought I had the Support thing covered 30 years ago.  And it is not so much a Family based psychological problem as it is that If none of the singers in the family told me I was supporting wrong then I must be doing things right.

Even when I let others know that I joined a forum to learn how to sing......... The response was "You can already sing" and "Why would you have someone else tell you how you should sing". And this is from people who sing and sound as good as any on the Radio (The country stations)

Sounded great Robert, I credit Jim for teaching me how to play guitar(such as it is).  I had two 8-track tapes of his "Life and Times" and Photographs and Memories". I spent hours just trying to figure out the chords. This was one of my all time favorites. "one less Set of Footsteps" is another.

Jim got me through a lot of bad times.

    Also another reason that I put the Song over the singer. Nothing wrong with Jims singing but those words and melodies are gold no matter who sings them.

Thanks everyone, I still have come a long way from about a year ago. If you listen some of those other songs on soundcloud you can hear the difference.

As Toolless mentioned I have a version of this that was recorded about 3-6 months ago(Time goes by so quick now).  Even on that recording I was stronger (vocal pressure wise) than songs before that.

I have one of Journey that I used another voice also "Fake" according to my previous ideas but people seemed to like better than my  "Natural" delivery.

I have I feeling that what I refer to a my "Old Man" voice is what you mean my Sub-glottal pressure. A thing not heard but maybe present in "Folk" music.

I came from a time and place that listening to Eagles, Aerosmith and Bad Company labeled you as a reprobate and a rebel. The other choice was BlueGrass and Country Gospel,(Think Carter Family, Flat and Scruggs, Jim and Jesse).  Tony Rice would have been considered Rock and Roll. If you do not know who any of those are look them up and you may understand.

So I will try this again, and we will see if I can get on the right track.    Thank you for your feedback.

Thanks Robert, Gsoul.  This was just a quick recording. Odd thing is that While singing this it sounded way deeper and less like my normal singing. After listening to it  there was not much of a noticeable difference other than a more solid tone.

This is just a quick recording, Using what I call "Fake" voice. I am playing with a little rasp. While growing up and singing with relatives they would condemn me for NOT using "MY NATURAL" voice. So I got stuck thinking to "Fake it" was a wrong thing to do. I think that some of this is on the right path to "Singing" rather than what I was doing before and thinking that I was "Singing" using my "Natural" voice.

   So if you would .......... Point out what is "Right" rather than just saying it sucks and I need more lessons.           Thanks.

25 minutes ago, Xamedhi said:

You are always talking about your voice not being strong enough... And I tell you right away, your voice is faaaar stronger than what I had when I started. In adduction, endurance, range.. And I still could do modal\full voice voice up to D5 because I had the coordinations. Now I have a vocal gap that affects my voice on top of my already weak muscular base, but I still sing full D#5 and E5, so no excuses, man. Its not strength, it's coordination, and you can get it in a month of two consistently.

You definitely build strength, I can assure that because I've got a lot better in that aspect, but the coordinations are the most important, because without knowing it how can you even practice it?

I recommend going lighter in mass on the C5 area... And as your falsetto is really strong, you will probably get to an E5 in full voice

Xamedhi has a good point. Perhaps in your case lightening up would be a better strategy.

Jonjon, you mentioned before that even some of those who took lessons still suck. That is true. Singing is as much about dynamics and choices as anything else. If everything is full blown belting then there is no dynamics. Whereas I may have too little air, you may be using too much. Meaning that your filling the lungs too much thinking that you need more power and you need more strength to hold things together. With too much air in the lungs the vocal folds have to hold tighter to keep from blowing apart.

   Part of the "Lift up and pull back" thing is to take the pressure off and reduce mass of the vocal folds

4 hours ago, JonJon said:

haha, if I let that comment stand it would be like I agreed with it. I give some of those examples maybe a 5 or 6 outta 10. Nothing "polished" in sight though hehe. On most of them I am barely making it lol. I just dont quite yet have the strength. But thats my personality, im always reaching for something I cant quite get as opposed to doing something I can easily manage.

The badlands phrase I think I can handle but the whole headphone/volume setup wasnt quite right and the way I had the sample setup to sing against, I didnt leave myself enough lead in time and I kept coming in wrong lol

   One or two phrases out of context will not show anything.

  A complete song does not have to be a full blown production. Not when when the goal is working on the voice.   Background guitar with basic rhythm will suffice.

  Still your tone is beyond most of those who seek "Tips or Strategies, Techniques and stuff" and the best advice I can give is to sing more "FULL" songs.  At this point what you need more is to manage how to deal with the flow of lyrics along with your tone. To deal with that, tackle songs that have already been established.

5 hours ago, JonJon said:

 

I listened to some of your stuff a while back. I probably felt I was too new to comment. It was b4 the BeeGees practice one. Just from memory it sounded to me like you were barely breathing lol. Almost like you were speaking as opposed to singing. I was thinking to myself "what good is all the talk about this or that coordination if you dont even have any wind flowing?" lol. Like I say though I forget what song it was. Yes, im very helpful lol

   Perhaps that is exactly what I needed to hear. People mention support more.   Most of the time when support is mentioned the phrase "Cut Back The Air" is mentioned. Or tighten up the diaphragm, control air flow.  Which is what I was doing. My recording time ends up between 11:00 pm and 2:00 am while others are sleeping. So getting loud is out of the question.

     Already sounds pretty good to me. Why not go ahead and put together some kind of cover just to see how it sounds. It would not have to be anything super hard to sing. Sure people get stuck on stupid things like "You do not sound like DIO, or Perry or whatever" The point is whether it sound good with your voice the way it is, and does it feel good to sing this way.

    And as for the other subject that always comes up. You sound pretty friggin' polished as it is. It is NOT this way for most singers, especially the ones who end up here.

    And for people stopping in here to give you tips and pointers or props......... Have you even listened to one of my songs that I posted here? If you have you did not comment. Good or Bad. I look for feedback also.

Great Job Bzean and Gsoul.

I was working on a Glenn Fry song and may upload it later. Too much thought going into it.

This is more the way I work. Remember a song, look up Lyrics and chords and just record it. The melody may be a little off and there is no embellishment. Just my way of interpreting the story.   Here is one for  Merle.

I enjoyed that. Thank you.

Good song Javastorm,  Write more songs. For a first attempt at writing you did great.

Song writers need only worry about lyrics melody and basic chord progression.

Sure if you plan on releasing this yourself and playing all instuments and such, then maybe thoughts on percussion and musical composition, points and counterpoints should be considered. BUT, most of the time drum patterns, bass lines and background embellishments are left to the studio musicians. They are given a chord sheet and a tempo. They do not get the whole composition writen for them. They use their own discretion and their sense of musicality. If things do not go as expected they are then given a basic direction.

Do not stop writing because someone thinks that it should have drums or bass lines or other embelishments. The original composition is basic. Chord pattern, tempo and melody and lyrics. Write songs, Let the arrangers worry about where to put a snare tap and a cymbol crash or maybe more cowbell.

    Let your Guitar and voice provide the tempo, intensity and mood. You did a good job.

14 hours ago, muffinhead said:

I've had the program for about 3 days. Are you saying that it's OK to start full speed ahead with bronchitis? I actually want to start training, but have held myself back from doing so because I don't want to injure my voice in the process; that's why I haven't done any heavy vocalizing since I got TFPOS. That's the whole issue. I'm not a procrastinator, that's one thing I want to make clear. I will practice 1-2 hours a day 5 or so times a week, but am worried about singing while sick. Let me know your thoughts on this.

Preview the contents of the program, Whatch the videos and pay attention. There are a lot of insights that will get you ready mentally when you are ready physically to stat the training.

   You may not be ready to do a full blown exercise but there are some onsets that you can work on without getting too physical with them.

    Good luck and I hope get well soon.

2 hours ago, Gsoul82 said:

At this point, we've done several genre-based challenges, where we voted on a genre, then voted on a song from that genre. We've also started doing non-genre-based themed challenges, like the Lover's Challenge from December, wherein any song involving love could be selected, and the more recent Artist challenge, where we voted on an artist and selected any song in that artist's catalog.

Where does everybody want to go next? I've been thinking for a while about doing a National Challenge, where we choose songs about our country or places within our country. I think I introduced that idea back in November, and with Memorial Day coming up in the states, I was reminded.

A town/city/country based song sounds pretty cool. Ex. Philidelphia Freedom, Sweet Home Alabama, New York New York, Kansas City Here I come...............................Got a wife and kids in Baltimore Jack (closest big city to me)............

3 minutes ago, Collin571 said:

POS crowd XD

I was playing in a local band, we played at a graduation party, mostly family members of the graduates, I sang with an acoustic while the drummer was setting up and the rest of the equipment was put inplace. The audience just stared at me. I sang like 6 songs. Not a peep. When I walked off the stage many people pulled me aside and said they loved what I did. I just stared back and said "Why couldn't you show me that while I was up on stage feeling like a fool?".    Sometimes you just get a tough crowd.

46 minutes ago, Collin571 said:

It's a good first start, I know with more recordings you'll maximize it's potential for beauty!  Can't say what you should do different other than keep going at it!

This does seem like the kind of audience I get.

7 hours ago, Collin571 said:

You kind of sound like Randy Newman, maybe you could try adding more glissando to get a better intonation.  1:45-2:00 was the most pleasant intonation to my ears.

Thanks for listening Collin, I kind of like Randy Newman. It could be worse and I could sound like Tom Petty.

Part of my issue is tone, The funny thing about tone issues is that you have to sound like someone and sometimes it is what it is, a matter of physical make up or it is about coordinations and resonance. What if I find out that i have everything balanced and I still sound like Randy? Or are just meaning the style of singing? A talky singy thing? This was first draft just getting an idea of how to approach the song and to have something to contribute to the BeeGees Challenge.

21 hours ago, KillerKu said:

I really like that song for your voice, MDEW. It gives it an earthy dimension and made me appreciate it more.

I've been thinking about it though, and I think there might be something you could work on to make it easier in the bridge. When I tried to imitate it. It felt a bit closed. I remember you mentioned you had difficulty with connecting falsetto smoothly, and one of the only ways I know to reproduce that is to close my throat into a kind of tight EE.

So if you were to experiment, what helps me is to start with of an oh/aww/uh, and then lift the back of my tongue until it becomes an EE.  That puts me into a posture that is much easier to bridge where I can still navigate closed vowels without scrunching/tensing. This is an example:

https://app.box.com/s/aufbggekxexardnd260krg84m86h6c7c

I also sang the song using more of that coordination:

https://app.box.com/s/igrdk6mfzfvqbnv6361j1x5wf3ugi2op

But I'd like to hear your finished version, cause I feel like you have something really different to offer this song. If you could keep the personality and character, you have the distinct timbre/accent, but maybe lean towards an easier position. I think there could be a best of both worlds in there. It might help to exaggerate a cartoon position. But then lean back into your accent to find the spot that is easiest and distinct.

Thanks Killer, This is the first chance I had to listen to your tips. I am going to try this later on. I don't think that Barry even sang that as high as you got in your example.  He just sounds like he got high because of his timbre and singing light. Some of the background harmonies may have reached that high.

3 hours ago, ronws said:

I like how you sang this in the range that works for you and it gives you a good tone for the song. If were I were a producer or recording guy in the studio, I would say this is the right thing. Vowels are a little clunky, that southern accent still coming through. But you are a country boy and it might seem more odd if you didn't sound a little country on this.

But I appreciate even more the unique tone of your voice. And I think you are gaining more control and usefulness from your study of 4 Pillars. This was a solid performance that I think was missing from the first posts of songs you had when you first joined this forum.

Rock on my southern brother from another mother.

Thanks Ronws, I always appreciate your honesty and advice. I don't think I will ever get those southern vowels totally cleaned up. Weird thing is that southerners think I have a northern accent and those above the Mason-Dixon line think I have a southern accent. Truth is around here you can almost tell what street someone lives on because of the differences in accent.