MDEW

     This is the same range/Key as Berry. One thing I am finding out is that some singers will sound higher because of the overtones.One of my problems is/was trying to match the tone of other singers and I would allow my Larynx to rise. Realizing that I am not going to have the same tone has allowed me to find a better larynx position.

      That one time that I found complete vocal freedom was when BTO's "You Ain't Seen Nothin Yet" came on the Radio and I found that I was squeezing and raising the larynx to get his sound. I shifted to a softer yet deeper tone and things fell into place. I was singing along to Aretha, High harmonies of  Beach Boys, Aerosmith and even singing with a higher octave on other songs. It was unfortunate that the phone rang while I was in this state. I lost the feeling and coordination and have been trying to get it back ever since.

Thanks Aravindmadis, Good tips on the Falsetto, I had been singing that stronger but kept missing the high note and finally just sang soft just so I could make the note. I was also missing the lowest note and slid into it once I started singing.

I submitted this in the Challenge for BeeGees. It is late. I am tired, but wanted to post something.

Be kind, this is a work in progress and a little to laid back to be effective

This is just a draft. It is late I am tired and it is what it is. I just wanted to give proof that I am working on something.

 Be kind give tips................ Thanks.

2 minutes ago, JonJon said:

yeah, that would be a good start though!

The whole vowel modification thing is finding a throat shape that works for you. Have you ever listened to Bon Scott on early AC/DC? Did you wonder why you cannot understand a thing that he was singing? it was not because he was singing with marbles in his mouth, it was because that is the throat shape that allows him to sing that high.

  The proper UH for you may be something that does not even sound like UH. A fine example of Vowel modification is Adele Listen to her speak and then listen to her sing. There are many Videos of her performing live. I use her as an example because of the BIG difference between her speaking voice and her singing voice.

34 minutes ago, JonJon said:

 

I didn't give that answer until on down in the thread and even then it's not an "informed" answer anyway....it's just what anyone would guess. I knew that much before I joined the forum.

I simply put out a singing effort and asked for feedback on my efforts to stretch up to the C5.

 

And simply saying "vowel modification" is about the same as not answering at all. It's like if someone says "Help me out, I can't throw a curveball, whats the secret?" and someone answers "physics."

 

But I suppose it is the same as in any other field, rather than ask the experts, it's better to just become one. True?

 

The whole problem is that even if someone where to say Jon, Drop your jaw a little more, cut back the air and sing UH instead of Oh. It still may not work because your perception of UH may be different, The jaw may still not drop enough, The throat shape may still be off and you still may not be getting enough closure or twang even though you think you are and the so called expert would still be wrong and a quack even though he gave the answer. It does not work until YOU find it through Guidance and experimentation but YOU still need to experience it before it works. So many things about singing are confusing and seem backward until you experience it and THEN you end up saying "OH, Thats what that jerk was talking about".

20 hours ago, JonJon said:

the "pros" I tongue in cheek refer to are the ones who argue for 10 pages over tiny shades of meaning in ancient Italian terms lol. yeah, thats REAL practical

I just answer "14"....as in how many angels can dance on the head of a pin etc

yeah, in any case im nowhere near strong enough to do anything meaningful with c5 yet lol. I just figured some of the megapros would lay out a doctoral thesis on vowel narrowing and the position of the left toe as it affects squillo during el nino years

      And knowing this, why would any of the "So called Experts" respond in the first place?  You already have your answer. You gave it yourself. Vowel modification and you are not strong enough yet. And it is not Strength in musculature, it is strength in coordination that takes practice and honing in on your own physical make up. C5 is normally in another place of passage just like E4 to G4 where you used to just flip and go into falsetto. The same rules apply here at C5.

      I am no expert and never claimed to be. I am learning and training like every one else. And when someone asks a question or is trying to make a point the terms become important to give and receive a proper responce.

      By the way the answer depends on how big the angels are and how big of a pin they are dancing on. I do not know if the material the pin is made out of makes a difference in this universe but in another universe it may.

    Jeremy, Souded pretty good man. I would keep this in a list of songs to play out for a one man show. If you haven't already, MAKE that list and practice the songs often so you can just grab a guitar, keyboard or whatever and sing when the opportunity strikes.

      Killer, Good to see you back. I have been wondering about you. You should also keep that in a list. It is one of the songs I was going to record for this Challenge.

       I have sat down at the recorder several times over the past few months to record for this challenge and each time was struck by either Red Light syndrome or interuptions. I still plan for a recording but do not know when I will be able to. Until then I hope others will continue to post songs here. Looking forward to hearing more.

      G,  You still out there? I have not seen a post from you for awhile. Do not give up on us. These challenges are still a good idea. It is getting the time that is a problem.

Sure beats "All about that Bass" and "Let,me holla', Let me holla', Wanna Holla' at you', Let me holla' at you, Come on and Holla' " Real song. Made it to the big time. Those are the only words.  .........    Kinda makes ya sick doesn't it?

  I like your Lyrics pretty cool Keep up the good work.

   Words are not that hard to write,  Jewel wrote about her morning routine and putting her Makeup on, Alanis Morissette wrote about having her hand in her pocket. Even I sometimes have a cool day to write about.

   Cool sound Jarom. My wife walked in the room while I was playing this. Her reaction was "wow, Nice voice".

I have to be honest, I could not make out the words. I love the vibe though and the song, production and all of that. I am more of a story guy and like to know what the words are.

    It could be because I am playing this through a laptop(with external speakers). 

    Was this the whole song or a snippet?

Perhaps I was just projecting my own melody choice. I think you are correct and that is a G#4 on Gotta. The more I listen to it the more I like it.

4 minutes ago, JonJon said:

listening back with fresh ears, the only line im iffy about is "I did not know it then" (1:50)

 

I like the overall song as much or better than yesterday, which is a good thing. But id still say its not what I WANT to sound like overall...but it IS what I sound like so far lol

Yes, that and the next line, "But I was runnin Blind". in the first verse there is a similar thing but it may just be an inflection not quite centered.

In responce to Rons suggestion of a slight Molly Hatchet sound........ I once tried to start a thread asking why people do not hear themselves as others do, even when listening to a recording. The thread did not take off because no one hears themselves the way that others do and could not understand that I was being serious.

15 hours ago, JonJon said:

Another 1 day wonder.

not 100% finished...needs bass gtr and some ad libs such as in the intro chorus

 

fun stuff    https://clyp.it/ccf4wf40

    I like it. You have a pretty good start. I would not worry about the lyrics being bland, my wife listens to a song where the ONLY lyrics are "Go on and Holler" "Let me here you Holler" "Holler" "Holler" " "Let me hear you Holler".   I hate that song.

    On those parts where you are starting to get higher in the song, you may be loosing the key center. Use your guitar and play the melody over the chords and see if you need to maybe sing a higher or lower note here and there to stay in key with the background music.

     I have to do this sometimes to help find the correct singing note.

     Love the guitar work.

There are no issues here. The only thing I noticed is that you sang "watching every move IN her face" instead of "ON her face"(and I could be wrong about that myself). Other than that it is just normal vowel modifications and less energy to Consonants like you want to do anyway for singing.

 Your accent comes through a little BETWEEN words and not often. Usually when ending with an R sound and starting the next word with a consonant, which everyone does a little different from each other anyway.

  Maybe the person or persons expect Paul Rodgers and no other.

great job as always Ellise.

4 hours ago, kickingtone said:

"Smaller space" where, and how does does that "produce better fold closure"?

"that is why quack sounds so metallic and edgy" does not follow from anything you have said. You can have rich higher harmonic content without any edginess.

Twang happens when the area above the vocal folds is decreased or the epiglottis is tilted/engaged.... The epiglottis is made of cartilage and covers the wind pipe when swallowing helping to keep food out of the wind pipe. In the picture below, see those muscles arranged in an X those close the epiglottis, some of those fibers continue and are part of the vocal cords. That is how engaging TWANG helps close the vocal cords. Whether you want to view it as Twanging the epiglottis or engaging the aryepiglottic sphincter, or narrowing above the vocal folds It does not matter, that is where TWANG happens. It also helps to close the vocal cords.

1 hour ago, JonJon said:

today at work I worked on hitting these connected head voice. notes and bridging up and down with waaaayyyy lighter mass/compression. It works that way too lol

 

vowels. One thing that never comes up when people discuss vowels is....THE SONG LYRICS!!! arent the lyrics going to massively dictate vowel choices?????

 Yes the Lyrics will dictate the vowels for the most part but after a certain point you need to modify the vowels. That is where the phrase "you do not sing like you speak" comes from. This is also the point of Acoustic Modes in the TVS program.

   Vowel modification is also a big factor in the Formant Tuning concept. Singing vowels are different from speaking vowels.

  American English has a lot of dipthongs. The long I sound is Ah-ee  sometimes the choice would be to modify the EE portion to a short i sound as in sit. You may want to drop the EE portion completely and just sing Ah instead of Ah-EE  depending on where the vowel sits in a phrase or Pitch range

40 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

 "Singing lighter is about shedding vocal cord weight and reducing sound volume."

M, You do not have to reduce sound volume.  You do not have to lighten up anything.  You can keep a constant flow of air and intensity, regardless of volume. This shedding weight is accomplished by the vowel...(the throat shape). The vowel choice you design for yourself (no one else) is the thing that let's you up.

Do you really want to be training or singing and having to say to yourself "I'm going up high, time to cut back my voice?"

What does lowering volume accomplish?  All you end up doing is underpowering and loosing connection.

Whether you begin light or heavy you need to still play the instrument.  The voice has to get requistite breath energy at any volume.

 

 

         Lowering of volume was a poor choice........... But I did mean to keep from over powering the folds and causing them to blow open. Beginning the process of Training, finding the correct vowel(Throat shape) to do what you want is also a part of the  process.

            Things like vocal fold mass(amount of cord vibrating) and sub glottal pressure is not inherent  in the vowel itself, it may lead to certain vowel choices or shades but the vowel does not dictate the amount of mass and pressure, The amount of mass and pressure may dictate the vowel choices.

 Yeah, I know I confuse myself also when I type things like that.

JonJon, I just had the chance to listen to your sirens. You can even see that the second siren in your first clip is almost perfect. My browser shows the little sound graph. in the second siren there is no low energy spot you just switch to a solid sound.

 I never had trouble producing a pitch between F#4 and E5. My trouble was sounding like Miss Piggy, Ethel Merman or Edith Bunker. When I tried to maintain a masculine sound that is when the Flipping/choking at F#4 happened.

   You have a nice solid tone throughout. Singing lighter is about shedding vocal cord weight and reducing sound volume.

   One thing that people do not think about in terms of light singing and Heavy singing is that if you have a heavy cord closure or more mass to the folds as you ascend and approach the passaggio you reduce vocal mass before shifting. If you are already singing light you do not reduce mass you just increase pressure as you shift. If you are singing light and try to lighten more at the shift you will lose connection and flip to falsetto.

Sounded good Jeremy. Glad to have you back. I hope everything goes well with the move.

   That was Awesome. I am sorry I did not listen to it earlier. I am not a Bieber fan but I did not realise it was you. I am a fan of yours.

    Keep up the good work and Take Robert up on his offer. You have great potential and just a bit of Maturity to the voice will take you from Awesome on Youtube to Awesome on the charts.

    Do you write any songs of your own? How about a friend who writes?

Thanks Xamedhi, .This was recorded about 1:30 in the morning. I gave it just enough energy to get the notes. I do not think that would have been loud enough to wake anyone but you still kind of lay back when you know people are sleeping.

  I am going to rerecord this when I get some loud time. Maybe even rerecord the Bass line a little closer to the original while I am at it.

  I always thought that it was Fair use for educational purposes and Commentary or parody..............Gneetapp, Maybe you are just too good and no one will want to hear the screeching of Axle anymore after they hear you.

1 hour ago, Gneetapp said:

Busted! Soundcloud is getting clever! They took down my Sweet Child o Mine cover again! 

 I always add another word to the title or Just give a description instead of using the exact title of the song. If you had it listed as "Sweet Child of Mine" - Guns and Roses............... Yeah you will get busted. I usually would title it something like "Sweet Child of Mine  Practice". Cover of "  ".... something like that.

Congratulations, You are just like the rest of the male population. Singing is NOT instinctive, there are many aspects that go into it. Best answer is to get a GOOD teacher or GOOD program. "The Four Pillars of Singing" is a good program.

   That being said, the reason you sound the way you do when you speak is do to a coordination you are using. You could just as easily speak lower and sound like  an advertising announcer. When speaking we use things like accents, inflections and other types of adjustments that are learned from our environments that  we do not use in singing. Figuring out all of this stuff is almost impossible on our own.