Time for miracles (Adam Lambert)

[Opaa]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8384032/2012/2012-08-03%20Time%20for%20miracles.mp3

[izzle1989]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8384032/2012/2012-08-03%20Time%20for%20miracles.mp3

Nice job

[izzle1989]

Whatever you have been doing stick to it because it has been working.

[Opaa]

Thank you :)

[izzle1989]

You're welcome

[Thewall]

Well, I think you sound better the higher you go. My opinion is that you should bridge later or not bridge at all, and sing the lower parts more chesty using a high larynx and maybe "jawn" a little so that you make enough room (curbing in cvt terms). That's what Adam does. Not saying that's why you should do it, but I think it sounds better.

Or are you just doing headvoice all the way for the practice of it?

[izzle1989]

Well, I think you sound better the higher you go. My opinion is that you should bridge later or not bridge at all, and sing the lower parts more chesty using a high larynx and maybe "jawn" a little so that you make enough room (curbing in cvt terms). That's what Adam does. Not saying that's why you should do it, but I think it sounds better.

Or are you just doing headvoice all the way for the practice of it?

I did find it very heady also, but he has come very far from what I heard from him a couple of months ago. I didn't want to give any tips that could potentially deter him from his goals.

[Opaa]

I might be absolutely out of my mind but I do it on purpose to develop my voice in a certain direction. No way I'm going to sing that heady for the rest of my life and I can sing chestier too, but I hope to develop a new structure in passagio and throughout my voice. This kind of heady singing is just for a little practice, my real workout is messa di voce exercise.

This is so weird, because it's kind of working so far. On the other hand my headvoice alone is much stronger and more reliable and my high range is more accessible, but my passagio and chest has been losing power and I have allowed it to happen for now.

I might be crazy, my voice is less powerful right now but still I feel like I'm making progress to the right direction. I think that when the power and chest comes in after all the headvoice workout and blending, it will be a new kind of structure where my voice sits higher and I will be able to blend the chest and head in a new way.

That's what I hope to accomplish anyway. For now I'm in a weird middle ground, if what I think is true.

[izzle1989]

I might be absolutely out of my mind but I do it on purpose to develop my voice in a certain direction. No way I'm going to sing that heady for the rest of my life and I can sing chestier too, but I hope to develop a new structure in passagio and throughout my voice. This kind of heady singing is just for a little practice, my real workout is messa di voce exercise.

This is so weird, because it's kind of working so far. On the other hand my headvoice alone is much stronger and more reliable and my high range is more accessible, but my passagio and chest has been losing power and I have allowed it to happen for now.

I might be crazy, my voice is less powerful right now but still I feel like I'm making progress to the right direction. I think that when the power and chest comes in after all the headvoice workout and blending, it will be a new kind of structure where my voice sits higher and I will be able to blend the chest and head in a new way.

That's what I hope to accomplish anyway. For now I'm in a weird middle ground, if what I think is true.

This is a warning sign. If your chest voice is losing power you will never be able to sing a chesty/fully connected tone. Make sure you perform lots and lots of chest voice work if not you will always flip into a disconnected head voice.

[Opaa]

Really? I'm not talking about disconnected headvoice, I already exercise chest but only by blending it with head voice and there I try to strengthen it as much as possible. I do this with the messa di voce exercise. I don't exercise chest in a raw state, which means without the collaboration of head voice muscles, or swelling it "through the head". However singing in a light semi-disconnected way in a song like I did above might be dangerous or unnecessary, or not, I'm not sure.

I differ with you based on the information on Anthony Frisell's book The Tenor Voice. Here's a quote of what I'm talking about:

"All superior voices are "created" by muscular structuring, achieved by transforming the undeveloped muscles of the two vocal registers (from whatever starting condition in which they present themselves), to a "new" state of structural existence, one that must conform to, and in time, satisfy all the demands of a large repertory of difficult vocal literature. In the beginning, this transformation is accomplished by executin a series of selected exercises which favor the development of the upper register, so that it becomes the dominant muscular system.

What becomes evident, during this slow building process, is that the muscles controlling the tones of the upper register begin to grow in strength, first, within their original boundaries, and then, they can be transported physically ( not merely esthetically), downward in the vocal range and made to overlap all the tones of the lower register.

(Another later paragraph):

With continued strengthening of all the tones of the upper register, the basic sound of its tones begins to change. New, improved vocal sounds appear and begin to match the sounds of the transformed tones of the lower register. The lower register's tones begin to sound "lighter", "buyoant", and "heady"; in time, they become "puffy" (with breath) and "falsetto-like", because the breath flow is now merging with them. They communicate to the singer (and to the knowledgeable teacher), their capacity to correctly apply "projecting power" as opposet to "forced resonance". At the same time, all the developing tones of the upper register begin to take on a more solid sound that is "like" the transformed sounds of the lower register, yet they are still being produced and controlled by the muscles of the upper register."

So Frisell clearly states that the lower register will "lose power" during the process and the upper range will grow in strenght. This is the early phase of training.

[Opaa]

Another paragraph from the same chapter:

"During the transformation of the upper register's muscles to a state of dominance, the process automatically imposes a corresponding transformation of all the tones of the lower register. In proportion to the ongoing development of all upper register tones, the corresponding tones of the chest voice automatically and undeniably begin shrinking, and reducing their "weight" and "thickness". As a result of this metamorphosing process, the tones of the antagonistic chest voice are forced to subjugate themselves to the developing falsetto's muscular control, and begin to willingly participate in a "team effort" to accomplish the task of singing. During this phase, the developing voice goes through many frustrating periods or "turbulence", during which the singer may believe he will never resolve the antagonism between the two registers. Patience, faith, and persistence must reign!"

[devaitis]

I have got mixed feeling. You have good voice but on the other hand I would like to hear you covering female songs.

[Opaa]

Btw thank you for the feedback so far guys, appreciate it.

Devaitis feel free to suggest any songs.

Posting samples can be pretty embarrassing sometimes... I don't sound terribly good right now. But I tried a female song today, Titanium by David Guetta feat Sia. It seems that I have a lot of work to do lol, but I have a feeling about this song, I'm gonna work on this. I have a lot of strength to develop and technique to work on.

Here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8384032/2012-08-06%20Titanium.mp3

Boy I need to narrow down those high note's vowels, they're all over the place.. And support is a bitch, and cord closure. I creak all the time on the top.

But even though my voice isn't very strong right now, there is still some kind of headvoice development that I didn't use to have and my voice sits higher. Headvoice is more dominating than before, which is what I've been going for and I want to build strength on that foundation.

I hope you guys be honest with me as I'm telling you how I'm approaching and working my voice and tell me what you think about this. Now I'm taking my chances with this headvoice approach, because I have a feeling that it will eventually give the certain type of results I'm looking for, even though it has it's problems or challenges. I want my voice to sit high and my headvoice to be very dominating and to stretch it throughout my range. I want my range to be very high and I want to be one of those tenors who even speak with headvoice presence. I want my voice to be transformed. Challenging and I'm absolutely nuts but I have a feeling for this and nothing to lose anyway so I'll give this vision all my effort.

[Keith]

I heard nothing but improvement! Nice work! Keep it up :)

[Opaa]

Thanks Keith Thewall thanks for the tip of how Adam is singing it, and I indeed did headvoice all the way for the practice of it.

[izzle1989]

Really? I'm not talking about disconnected headvoice, I already exercise chest but only by blending it with head voice and there I try to strengthen it as much as possible. I do this with the messa di voce exercise. I don't exercise chest in a raw state, which means without the collaboration of head voice muscles, or swelling it "through the head". However singing in a light semi-disconnected way in a song like I did above might be dangerous or unnecessary, or not, I'm not sure.

I differ with you based on the information on Anthony Frisell's book The Tenor Voice. Here's a quote of what I'm talking about:

"All superior voices are "created" by muscular structuring, achieved by transforming the undeveloped muscles of the two vocal registers (from whatever starting condition in which they present themselves), to a "new" state of structural existence, one that must conform to, and in time, satisfy all the demands of a large repertory of difficult vocal literature. In the beginning, this transformation is accomplished by executin a series of selected exercises which favor the development of the upper register, so that it becomes the dominant muscular system.

What becomes evident, during this slow building process, is that the muscles controlling the tones of the upper register begin to grow in strength, first, within their original boundaries, and then, they can be transported physically ( not merely esthetically), downward in the vocal range and made to overlap all the tones of the lower register.

(Another later paragraph):

With continued strengthening of all the tones of the upper register, the basic sound of its tones begins to change. New, improved vocal sounds appear and begin to match the sounds of the transformed tones of the lower register. The lower register's tones begin to sound "lighter", "buyoant", and "heady"; in time, they become "puffy" (with breath) and "falsetto-like", because the breath flow is now merging with them. They communicate to the singer (and to the knowledgeable teacher), their capacity to correctly apply "projecting power" as opposet to "forced resonance". At the same time, all the developing tones of the upper register begin to take on a more solid sound that is "like" the transformed sounds of the lower register, yet they are still being produced and controlled by the muscles of the upper register."

So Frisell clearly states that the lower register will "lose power" during the process and the upper range will grow in strenght. This is the early phase of training.

I have nothing against Frisell or his methods because this does make alot of sense and has been proven to work. You are a fine example on how much improvement that can be made by doing this, but the "head voice musculature" is the same musculature that we use for the other areas of our voice too.

The CT muscle tilts the larynx which causes the vocal folds to stretch and thin. Regardless of whether we are in "head" or "chest" voice the CT controls the changing of pitch. This way of training will work to an extent, but you will never become strong or coordinated enough to sing those same pitches in a chesty way if you are always lifting half of the weight.

I didn't want to give a detailed comment because you have been making great progress, but at some point you are going to have to start to add more weight.

[Opaa]

Thanks izzle, that makes a lot of sense.

"This way of training will work to an extent, but you will never become strong or coordinated enough to sing those same pitches in a chesty way if you are always lifting half of the weight.

This is where I hope that messa di voce and other Frisell-exercises are able to eventually deliver those results.

"at some point you are going to have to start to add more weight."

I hope that point is now. But gradually though.

I'm starting to have some success with swelling EH vowel from detached falsetto into a full voice, which according to Frisell marks a turning point in the muscular development and a shift from "closed phase training" to "open phase". At that point Frisell advices to start working the head and chest voice both separately, if I remember correctly. I'm not gonna go there quite yet, but soon I guess.

Hopefully I'll be able to handle more weight soon enough.

[izzle1989]

Thanks izzle, that makes a lot of sense.

"This way of training will work to an extent, but you will never become strong or coordinated enough to sing those same pitches in a chesty way if you are always lifting half of the weight.

This is where I hope that messa di voce and other Frisell-exercises are able to eventually deliver those results.

"at some point you are going to have to start to add more weight."

I hope that point is now. But gradually though.

I'm starting to have some success with swelling EH vowel from detached falsetto into a full voice, which according to Frisell marks a turning point in the muscular development and a shift from "closed phase training" to "open phase". At that point Frisell advices to start working the head and chest voice both separately, if I remember correctly. I'm not gonna go there quite yet, but soon I guess.

Hopefully I'll be able to handle more weight soon enough.

Well I'm am glad I could help

Just know that the sooner you start to add more weight the sooner you will improve with lifting that weight. You will not be able to sing all of the pitches in your range with this weight yet, but if you take it pitch by pitch you will improve.

I'm not saying that you have to abandon the head voice only workouts I'm just saying the only way you are going to truly have the control you want you will have to strengthen and coordinate both. They both work together and are never separate or we would not be able to make sound or change pitch.

Good luck with your journey. If you need any help let me know! :cool:

[Opaa]

It appears that I try to sing a new song every day. Here's a bit chestier one, I lean more into the voice. Stevie Wonder - Place in the sun:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8384032/2012/2012-08-07%20Place%20in%20the%20sun.mp3

I tried to keep the headvoice going beneath the tone as strong as possible (in the passagio), but it get's smothered by the chest voice so easily. It works in a decent manner already though.. I can't wait till I get to really work on restructuring those passagio notes.

[MB20]

Just know that the sooner you start to add more weight the sooner you will improve with lifting that weight. You will not be able to sing all of the pitches in your range with this weight yet, but if you take it pitch by pitch you will improve.

If he's following the Frisell methodology then this stage comes before adding any weight back into the voice. Frisell suggests getting both chest and head voice musculature in a 50/50 ratio of control and then adding the weight of the chest voice into the head. Trying to do this too soon could result in pulling chest and muscular imbalance.

[izzle1989]

Well all I can say is take everything I say and everyone else including frisell with a grain of salt. Only you can truly figure out how to sing. Any description we give you will be different from what you feel. Just take the common points and make your own conclusions.

[ronws]

So many people, including students of his (Frisell), have a hard time following the path. He specifically states that in the beginning of training, you will lose some of your lowest notes, at least for a while. If they don't come back, so what? If you are a tenor, train as a tenor and stay there.

So, there ya are. Now, let the ignoring of his statements begin, anew.