Heaven and Hell - help me with my tone

[Tappivanukas]

Hello!

 

I'm 22 year old guy and I've been singing now little over six months. I have taken 6 CVT lessons and I tried Ken Tamplins program which I didn't care for very much. When I started taking lessons the highest note I could hit was F#4 and now it is A5. The lowest note I can hit is B1. So thanks to great lessons and teacher I got my range working.

Now my problem is my tone that I don't really like. To me it sounds kind of whiny and it doesn't sound natural. I've got pretty low speaking voice (somewhere around E2) so singing high isn't the most natural thing for me, even it is now easier. I like 70's and 80's rock and Dio is my favorite singer and I'm chasing tone like he had. I think his tone was really full sounding, meaty and rich.

 

Here is my trying to sing Black Sabbaths Heaven and Hell: 

 

Tell me what you think and tell me if you have any advice how to get richer and fuller tone.

 

Sorry if there are mistakes, my English is little bit rusty...

[Robert Lunte]

Hi Tapp,

 

I love this song... it has one of the best grooves in all metal... and DIO was one of the best... always will be.

 

I don't think your singing in this song is all that bad?  I sense you are being too hard on yourself, the intonation is good and your voice seems to be holding up relatively well. You need to understand that at 22, your voice is still weaker then its full potential. Your voice doesn't get to its full potential until your 30s and 40s.... 20-something year olds can sometimes have a weaker system to work with, but that doesn't mean that you can't beef it up... you can, but when it comes to belting, youth is not always a better thing. So you have to build the strength.

 

There is intrinsic musculature that needs to be developed to make this sound more beefy and to give you a sense of more control and stability in your singing. The solution is fairly easy.

 

I offer a program titled, "The Four Pillars of Singing"... it is a comprehensive vocal training program, it covers just about everything anyone could ask for in a home study program. In particular for you, it offers a detailed set of belting techniques that consist of onsets (how you start a note... designed to build strength) and certain vowel training formulas that will help you isolate the musculature you need to belt better. It is helping a lot of my students like you, get stronger.. it has helped me get stronger!  I hate to sound like I'm just trying to sell you my program... I am, but know that this honestly is the BEST way I can help you. It is the best answer I can give you. The belt techniques in the program are not simple enough to just write out here on a forum comment box... it doesn't really work that way. There is no "quick secret tip" to this sort of training... it has to be explained to you, demonstrated to you (in videos) and provided to you with training routines and instructions... but I will say this... if you were to commit to this program and take three lessons with me, I will show you training techniques that will make this song and all songs sound a lot stronger... guaranteed... but you have to make the commitment and do the training. What you are asking for, is is a "free tip" on a forum... even if someone gives you one, if you don't have the program and content to train the idea and a teacher to follow up with to validate that your doing it properly, you will not fix your problem.  Give me a chance to help you... 

 

 

 

 

[Tappivanukas]

Hi Tapp,

 

I love this song... it has one of the best grooves in all metal... and DIO was one of the best... always will be.

 

I don't think your singing in this song is all that bad?  I sense you are being too hard on yourself, the intonation is good and your voice seems to be holding up relatively well. You need to understand that at 22, your voice is still weaker then its full potential. Your voice doesn't get to its full potential until your 30s and 40s.... 20-something year olds can sometimes have a weaker system to work with, but that doesn't mean that you can't beef it up... you can, but when it comes to belting, youth is not always a better thing. So you have to build the strength.

 

There is intrinsic musculature that needs to be developed to make this sound more beefy and to give you a sense of more control and stability in your singing. The solution is fairly easy.

 

I offer a program titled, "The Four Pillars of Singing"... it is a comprehensive vocal training program, it covers just about everything anyone could ask for in a home study program. In particular for you, it offers a detailed set of belting techniques that consist of onsets (how you start a note... designed to build strength) and certain vowel training formulas that will help you isolate the musculature you need to belt better. It is helping a lot of my students like you, get stronger.. it has helped me get stronger!  I hate to sound like I'm just trying to sell you my program... I am, but know that this honestly is the BEST way I can help you. It is the best answer I can give you. The belt techniques in the program are not simple enough to just write out here on a forum comment box... it doesn't really work that way. There is no "quick secret tip" to this sort of training... it has to be explained to you, demonstrated to you (in videos) and provided to you with training routines and instructions... but I will say this... if you were to commit to this program and take three lessons with me, I will show you training techniques that will make this song and all songs sound a lot stronger... guaranteed... but you have to make the commitment and do the training. What you are asking for, is is a "free tip" on a forum... even if someone gives you one, if you don't have the program and content to train the idea and a teacher to follow up with to validate that your doing it properly, you will not fix your problem.  Give me a chance to help you... 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Robert for you reply! It's great to hear positive opinion about my voice. I'm a little perfectionist and maybe I'm just shocked how I really sound. I understand that I'm in the beginning of my singing journey. Thanks for your offer, I've been planning to buy your program at some point. Right now I can't afford it, but when I get some money I will definitely buy it!

[ronws]

It's your vowel use. For this song, you are doing a lot of "oh." Dio was more of an "ah" and even a rolled back a, like in cat, for rasp, kind of guy. 

 

Try it again with the different vowel. And it's ah-n ah-nd an, ah-nd ah-n, h-eh-v-ah-n ahnd h eh l ... ah, w eh l

[Robert Lunte]

 

 

And it's ah-n ah-nd an, ah-nd ah-n, h-eh-v-ah-n ahnd h eh l ... ah, w eh l

 

Ron, what's this?

[Elvis]

Ron, what's this?

And its on and on and on ita heaven and hell...ahhh weel

[Tappivanukas]

It's your vowel use. For this song, you are doing a lot of "oh." Dio was more of an "ah" and even a rolled back a, like in cat, for rasp, kind of guy. 

 

Try it again with the different vowel. And it's ah-n ah-nd an, ah-nd ah-n, h-eh-v-ah-n ahnd h eh l ... ah, w eh l

Hey you are right! I have to listen vowels more carefully and try this again. Thanks for the advice!

[Jugulator]

This song a very hard one to sing. I can clearly hear that you don't hit the notes, instead you climb them. This is because you push to much air and your vocal folds cannot close properly. Breath support is what you should practice over and over again.

[ronws]

Ron, what's this?

vowel shapes to use but I can remove it if you wish me to. I don't want to offend.

[Robert Lunte]

@ Ron, what are you talking about Ron?

 

Tapp... lets hear the next version with the vowel suggestions... 

[Pekka]

That was really good, i like it

[Khassera]

Tervetuloa tännekin.

Rob, ron's suggesting that Tappi sings the song using straight vowels and not tight diphtongs. He typed out the vowels.

And it's ah-n (ah + n = on) aeh-nd ("ae" as in cat + nd = and) so on and so forth.

I'd go as far as to use a vowel you don't have to modify at all to get the release into the mix/head and open it up from there. Maybe try singing with only oo or a german u (suomeksi uu tai yy).

I think your tone is awesome, it does sound a bit difficult though. I dunno if you feel it, but it sounds like you're straining, and I bet that's why you're not executing the melismas Dio does and there's some spots where the phrase just abruptly ends. All in all I think it's good, but you shouldn't need to shout over the music, it's not how Dio did it. Not saying it's the only way to do it, it's just the easiest way to do it.