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  3. Mysteries of the mind! That is why I think that much of the consensus about sound quality is contrived. Here's another strange phenomenon I experienced as I woke up one day... At the point of waking up, I heard tack-tack-tack-tack-tack-tack-tack-tack-tack-tack-tack-tack -- just like that...a series of sharp sounds in rapid succession. Three seconds later, I was fully awake, wondering what the sound could possibly be. It was early morning and there was only silence! I lay awake, wondering if I had dreamed the sound. Then, I heard, "tack". Then ten or fifteen seconds later another "tack", and so forth, very slowly and intermittent, like that. What was happening was that a window was open and the door was slightly ajar, and a wind had sprung up and was blowing the door to every ten or twenty seconds. But the noise I had heard as I woke up was as rapid as automatic gun fire! There was no way the wind could have done that with the door (and once closed, the wind cannot open the door, so it wasn't the wind rattling the door open). It was as if my mind had stored up all the intermittent "tack" sounds and "downloaded" them in an instant. It was like a time warp...a different sense of time. I've heard that dreams can work that way. Researchers think that REM sleep is the dreaming phase, but when they interview the subject, the subject reports experiencing a dream that seems to have taken much longer. Anyway, even when we are awake, our sense of time can go haywire.
  4. I know what you mean. For me the sound is like being underwater and the focus could be on one sound. As I wake up the sound gets brighter and the rest of the sounds around me start to drown out what I was listening to before.
  5. I just think that a lot of people expect "muscle memory" to take care of things that it won't. You hear people say things like, "you've just got to keep practising until the muscle memory kicks in, and you are able to do X". You don't hear that many people say, "practise hearing the note just before you sing it". People know (or quickly get to know) that training the physical coordination is necessary, even though is is not sufficient. Audiating, on the other hand, doesn't get that much of a mention. Talking about "hearing the note"... I can "lucid hear" when I am asleep and about to wake up. So, I would be asleep and know that I am asleep, but be able to hear what is going on around me. The most notable sound is usually the dawn chorus -- birds singing in the morning. I can listen to that for a while when I am asleep, and I can choose the precise moment I want to wake up. The funny thing is that there is a change in timbre of the sound, as soon as I awaken. It's the same timbral change every time. My "sleeping ears" and my "awake ears" hear the sound differently!. Both are equally clear, but timbre is distinctly different. While I am "sleep listening" I even remember, and am aware, that the timbre will change when I wake up. So I deliberately delay waking up so that I can enjoy the unusual timbre. Then, when I decide to wake up, I wonder at the inevitable change in timbre. That kind of convinces me that we all hear differently. What if there are people whose "awake ears" hear like my "asleep ears", etc.?
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  7. I am not saying anything against audiating. It just seems like a natural part of the process to me. But the audiating without the action may help in learning the action while learning it, but it cannot take the place of learning the action. After the action is set then ,Yes, audiating helps in solidifying the action to the thought. If I am learning a guitar lead I can hear the notes in my head but until I get the guitar and pratice putting the fingers where they go they may still miss the mark. The fingers may land a little higher or lower on the strings until both the thought and the action are unified. "(I wonder if people who talk or sing in their sleep talk/sing flat?)" I used to sleep in a room next to my nephew. He said I sang in my sleep..........at that time I sounded better while sleeping than I did when awake. Go figure To be clear, I do agree that muscle memory alone will not guarantee a good outcome. As I said before it seems to me as a natural part of the process and cannot understand why people would not use it.
  8. If you are singing in the baritone range but sounding like a tenor, you are an untrained tenor. With training and singing like an opera singer does you may find that your singing voice is way deeper sounding than you think. In that case you may be a high baritone. But you will not know until proper training.
  9. I did watch the whole video. Of course, there is no suggestion that merely audiating is sufficient, or could replace training. But he is saying that audiating is necessary and essential. What I understand Pavarotti to be saying is that if you get to the note before audiating ("hearing") it, then mere memory/muscle memory won't work. I said something similar earlier -- that trained muscle memory says that you CAN sing the note, not that you WILLl sing it. The coordination will feel familiar and easy if you trigger it, but you need to audiate to trigger the right responses. (I wonder if people who talk or sing in their sleep talk/sing flat?)
  10. Thank you for your time, but I still have a doubt with what you said. If I sound like a tenor no matter what, that probably means I'm a tenor. But, if my natural vocal range (I think It's called tessitura) perfectly fits within the baritone classification, what does that mean? Even after proper training.
  11. Did you listen to what he said after that? The Singer he went to see vocalized for 40 minutes. In this instance "Vocalize" does not mean just singing. It means Vocal exercises. He is still a student and will always be. Hearing the note before you sing it works AFTER you have conditioned the voice to make the note. In other words you do not reinvent the note while singing, you sing the note you have trained. Another one of those things that work together instead of being separated and one thing being more important than another. They work together and reinforce each other. If you are audiating a C# but keep producing a C either you need to train the voice to sing the C# to match the imagined sound or Change the imagined sound to reflect the C.
  12. 3:20 "...the concentration must be so strong. Before you begin to sing...you have to one second before...you have to HEAR the note, and then, you will not make a mistake. But, if you think, at the last moment, to invent the note, I think it's not going to be good..."
  13. This is from the Wiki page "The tenor voice type is generally divided into the leggero tenor, lyric tenor, spinto tenor, dramatic tenor, heldentenor, and tenor buffo or spieltenor." I would imagine that Baritones would have a similar classification. The above list goes from lightest sound to heaviest sound. For most music, as long as you can sing the notes and sound good(which varies with opinions) it does not matter whether you are a tenor or Baritone. With Opera and Musical Theater you may be cast based on your singing sound. That is because the different types of voices are stereo typed for different roles and certain songs are arranged for different voice characters. The classification is based on the Singing voice not the Speaking voice. So if you do SOUND like a tenor when you sing ...you are a tenor. But, if you have not had formal training you still do not know what you are capable of or where your voice type would be. Our speaking voices are sometimes a product of our environment. Different qualities of the voice are do to using one set of factors over another. Some people use a quiet thin sounding voice when speaking and some use a bold aggressive, authoritative voice. These sounds are made with different muscular coordinations within the voice box and throat. You can even have a Thin but loud voice and a Heavy but quiet voice. It is still do to different muscular coordinations of the voice box and throat . These same things can effect our singing voice. You can be bold and authoritative in your speaking voice and use a quiet thin coordination with your singing voice. And vice versa, A thin speaking voice and a Bold deeper sounding singing voice. And YES, some people will have a deep voice no matter what and some will have a small voice no matter what but most of us have average musculature....meaning most of us can unlock all with the proper training depending on what you want to do with it and how you train for it.
  14. What I meant, is a baritone with a genuine and true tenor sound that there's no way he can get rid of It.
  15. Not sure I understand exactly what the question is, I am presuming it's about someone having a lighter voice and performing with heavy sounds, or the other way around, but I don't get the idea if you don't want to talk about the technique, is it just about how to call it? Why not calling them by their names as you just did, it's very specific and we can easily find them to hear what they are doing.
  16. Yeah there is more coming from what I´ve heard, looking forward to it!
  17. Hello ladies and gentlemen, I'm new in this page/forum and I mainly joined because I have one big question I would like to ask you all. How is It called when a baritone has a tenor sound? Or, when a tenor is a normal tenor but just with the exception of the fact that, for some reason he owns a baritone natural range. I know you will probably come up with techniques, different ways to manipulate voice in recordings and stuff, I know, but I'm talking about a genuine tenor sound no matter which tricks or techniques are used. I think there's a famous singer who has this weird thing, Dustin Bates I think is his name? And there's another one who has the same "thing" in his voice but upside-down: Adam Gontier.
  18. @Felipe Carvalho Yes, sounds right. And it's interesting if you feel a difference in the cricothyroid visor. It would be great to see an MRI study in regards to the "tilt". They also mention this in the study I cited earlier: "Another potentially important finding is that the laryngeal tilt mechanism is independent of pitch production and can be related to a variation of density or “weightiness” of a sung note. This is a line of inquiry that warrants further investigation, such as studies of women, across various pitches, and from methods such as MRI or EMG." https://www.jvoice.org/article/S0892-1997(18)30040-7/abstract
  19. I can change it without the pitch change that´s why I am asking, listen: https://app.box.com/s/9yblwz026yoc3ffwikf1ehw8p1qxbcij
  20. @Felipe Carvalho Yes, when changing pitch. Ex a glissando from low to high or reverse. Both with sound and silently. The cricothyroid visor is mainly related to pitch.
  21. @Felipe Carvalho I don't notice any difference in the cricothyroid space but I do feel a slight movement of the whole larynx (which again, is in accordance with Fink).
  22. And that is what I said. This particular "Buzz" is from the tongue root. An amplification of the high frequencies of the vibration of the vocal cords. It Is different from "Twang" which is a "ring" or whistle from "resonance" in the vocal tract. 2 different things that work independently from each other. I explained why I used the term '"Twang" in this case. Contemporary singers use this term when referring to the "Buzz" which is really vocal fold vibration not "Twang". "Metal" or Cord closure is directly linked to intensity" . I also mentioned that in the other thread. When I use this I cannot help but be louder. Controlling anything, of course takes time. But you should be able to hear or feel some kind of difference immediately if something is valid.
  23. @kickingtone I am not interested on the mental gymnastics you go through to solve your dissonances, but it's clear at this point you are projecting on me your own issues. Again if you intend to bring relevant content to this thread, get real. I don't think so because some of the techniques (probably the ones that are more useful) can take a while to control properly, and investing years on something just to test it seems to me like a bad move. It's one that people make though which usually leads to frustration or denial/blocking. Metal in CVT is level of closure, not just buzz (twang). Metal is directly linked to intensity.
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