Gsoul82

Great going, Muffin! You should come join us and take on the challenges in the Challenge forum. 

Don't worry, these are not challenges against each other. These are challenges against yourself. We select songs that aren't easy and work on them. I heard your clips. You are certainly capable. No pressure though. It would just add another element to your practice.

Great going, Muffin! You should come join us and take on the challenges in the Challenge forum. 

Gotten some good improvement since the last post. 
My coordination up to G#4 is pretty decent. I can now use G#4 in most songs (with practice of course)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0yF3rTW4Qal
I can get up to A#4 in exercises, but the coordination is not ingrained yet; its application in songs right now is very unreliable 
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0qCWHqeJKtS
Here's a section of "Rooster" by AIC. I omitted a more difficult line with a B4 for obvious reasons
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Z07dCU4EHZ

You might want to consider a name change to Mr. Wonderful

There! Used some distortion towards the end. A little different for me, but gave it a shot. That's the point of the challenge, right? Guitars to the sky for The Purple One! 
 

Geoff, just get more contact, more execution on the glottis. Drive it a more... your ok.

Thank you. Anything in particular that needs work?

Awesome work. And you have a silky, beautiful voice. And having built such a strong and consistent foundation, you will be at C5 soon enough.

I echo what ronws said, your voice has a very soft and gentle timbre that would suit some music exceptionally well. 

Cool, your using the guide files with the "chanting monks"... thats fine. Recognize that as you scroll down the "My Training" page, you will see "Solo Piano Vocalize (C)"... these are the same workouts Geoff but:
- No chanting monks.
- You have fast and slow versions.
 
Your Review:
 
T&R: 
Well done Geoff... however:
- Don't train 20 notes, sing 2 phrases Geoff. Your training has a sort of "poking" at each note, which is common with beginners. This can get you into some problems. Stop thinking about the vocalize as a series of notes lined up.. and start perceiving them as phrases. Which is what you are going to need to do for singing anyways. More "legato" in your perspectives here.
- Shift your resonance forward to a hard palate, edging position. It is a bitt to backward in the resonance. 
- Engage more compression / twang Geoff... your being too soft on the glottis in my opinion. Of course, if you shift forward to the hard palate, the body will naturally want to compress harder anyways, which is a good thing.
- Why are you not bridging this and taking it to a G4 at least? You really need to work on bridging Geoff... just because its hard or sounds bad, doesn' mean you "retreat" and don't work it. Commit to the hard stuff! Shoot some baskets, don't just dribble... get on with "it".
 
D&R:
- A dampen & release onset does not have respiration escaping through the glottis. Way too windy... way too pampered, too light Geoff. POP that sucker!! /b/ is a PLOSIVE consonant and plosive rhymes with explosive... where is the energy? Your D&R needs work Geoff... you have to improve this because your missing out on a HUGE benefit you can get from this onset. Your larynx is not lowering as well, which is really the main goal. This needs work.
 
Q&R:
- Again, the glottis is too open, too windy. Does it have to be? The Q&R onset is about producing HYPER-compression... a tight, squeezed, quacky compression for resistance training benefits. 
- 1:00 - not bad...
- Ok, pay attention to this... you are getting the compression... but when you open the embouchure, listen how the compression is weakening and wind is blowing through. This is VERY common when people being doing the Q&R onset... when the embouchure is shaped, the glottis blows open... THIS IS THE #1 THING TO FOCUS ON WITH Q&R ONSETS... AS YOU RELEASE THE VOWEL AND SHAPE THE EMBOUCHURE, HANG ONTO THE COMPRESSION.
- Actually the last one you did in this sample maintained the compression... this could be better.
 
W&R:
- Under powered, no energy? Geoff, inhale and blow that thing! Why is this so meek and weak? I am not convinced that this what you have in you. You need to execute a lot more aggressively Geoff.
 
W&R + Glissando:
- Was windy..
 
ok, so overall... you are under-resourcing these onsets and workouts. You are way, way too light and meek. Geoff, you need to start hitting these onsets harder and I did say "hit"... which you know I don't say very often. Watch the videos of me doing the onsets in the "My Training" page and match my energy, execution as best you can. You have got to train harder, this is so passive and light, your not building strength with this.
I think you are getting coordinated and there is some benefit from this, but your missing out on strength building. Your not moving any "weight". 
You should get in front of me for a skype lesson so i can get you on the right path.

Did the exercises. Stopped right where things started to constrict. Don't usually sing with much volume, so I gotta get used to it. Also did a siren 
 
Track and Release with Guide:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0iwMmkNtl4L
 
Dampen and Release:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s02MkLkMAeQY
 
Quack and Release:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1hvLKV9vX7r
 
Wind and Release:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1mR89TZQ6mq
 
Wind and Release Siren:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1RczcRW7bVa

Think I gotta work on my resonant tracking. The vibration is there but I don't think it's strong enough and it's definitely not as loud as done on the instructional videos.
 
 
I was about to upload an exercise but it would make too much noise now. I was going to do the Track and Release along with the mp3. I will just do it real quick tomorrow. I'll probably do a few others like Dampen and Release, Wind and Release and Quack and Release. Just gotta practice the vowel transitions on that first tuning workout a little more and I can use it.

And your progress is following the curve of what mine was. I developed huge power and volume up top and the finer control, when needed, came later. And true, it depends on style or genre of music as to how much softer, finer passages are needed. As long as what you can do is repeatable and does not result in loss of voice or pain. Notice I did nt say fatigue. Anything, including singing, can be fatiguing after a while because it is involving the use of tissues and muscles, etcetera, the body corporeal.
With practice and the actual training effect on muscles, down to a certain size, it becomes less fatiguing especially if staying within an expected limited of vocal usage specifically for singing. For beginners, I would suggest no more than 3 hours total in a day. But that's just my amateur idea.
But I do know a smidgeon about anatomy and mainly a little bit about how musculature works because I used to lift weights. I could butterfly 110 lb (50 kg) free-weights, or 135 lbs (65 or 70 kg) on machine. Muscles, when challenged with a workload greater than normal, tear down and re-build bigger, to handle the increased work load. You don't grow more muscle tissue, what you have tears down and re-builds bigger.
But if the muscle, instead, is now being tasked to complete the same work load but more often or for longer durations of time, then it re-builds the same size but more dense. The muscle cell then remains the same size but its material gets thicker. You can see this effect on fingertips when you learn to play guitar. Your finger developes a callus. The skin of the fingertip has not grown bigger, it has grown more dense. Muscles do that, too, to handle the workload expected.
In fact, a vocal nodule is the same thing. One point or another on the meeting surfaces of the folds that suffers repeated collisions, similar to how your your fingertip collides with a string on a guitar, rebuilds itself in that area thicker, to withstand repeated collisions and, in so doing, it is protecting the rest of the tissue and ligaments inside. Nodule is not a cancer, it is a callus. And it can have an effect on the sound produced because it is thicker than the surrounding tissue and may not vibrate as fast as surrounding tissue.
How do you get rid of nodules or any callus? By not doing what brought that on. A guitar player who quits playing guitar will eventually lose the calluses. Because epthileal tissue replaces itself all the time. You are literally not the physical person you were seven years ago.
With some activities you can reduce or avoid calluses by wearing gloves or other protective equipment, the main idea being to avoid the collisions of tissue with tissue or some other substance.
I don't think one can say that any training system will prevent calluses. But a training system like 4 Pillars goes a long way because it teaches you how to sing properly without damaging yourself, in a healthy way designed to keep you singing strong and loud and expressive for the next thirty or forty years. You can be the next John Bush.
When you are using your body in a proper manner, less damage occurs.
Now, you can go and be a rock star, where the pitfalls and dangers are still there. Being a rock star is a job, like any other job. Only, it's like an intermittent salary job, more like a commissions-only job. The exception being union musicians working in studios. but their pay is hourly and they are guaranteed three-hour blocks. But it is a job with difficult work environments. 
Stages may look glamorous but can be filled with danger. Pieces put together improperly. Smoke machine output obscures steps and obstacles and down you go. That's another thing. What's in the smoke machine? Vegetable oil, like a vaping tool? You will live. CO2? That is going to dry out your voice and make you sleepy.
You know why Van Halen put the m&m thing in their riders? I get this directly from reading Roth's memoirs, "Crazy From the Heat." He liked to do all those acrobatic karate moves. Slight bit of history, he had a weak bone condition as a child and had to wear metal braces from foot to shin bone until he was about 11 years old. Once the braces came off, he started studying kenpo karate, in which he holds a black belt. And also, the japanese sword fighting. In fact, he lives in Japan part of the time.
So, he likes to do the more acrobatic martial arts move as part of his show. And union rules in some cities require the use of local union workers to build stuff. And they would consistently NOT build the stage to his spec, Weak spots that would twist his ankle. Or build it in a venue with a low ceiling and not say anything. One show, David started with the jumping leg split off the drum platform and cracked his noggin on the ceiling.
Well the thing about contracts for tours, if either party fails to complete the contract, penalties are awarded. So, if tour management and locals failed to even exclude the proscribed m&m's, Van Halen did not have to pay them. This has the effect of teaching tour managers and union locals to read the contract carefully and do exactly what it says, including stage construction.
But you are also on the other side of the contract. You have to appear and perform on the assigned show dates and any others that are added as the tour goes on. Failure to appear involves a penalty. Either in the form of not receiving the performance fee from that night or some decided penalty amount from the whole amount of compensation.
So, there you are, 6 months into a 15 month tour, trying to sleep on a tour bus bouncing down the road, stretch in a bunk with the drummer's stinky feet about foot from your nose. You are at the mercy of whatever food you can find at truck stops, when you are usually busy making a bee line for the bathroom because you do not want to drop a deuce on the tour bus because that tank is NOT vented.
You have to get up early to do a radio interview because fans like that and it invites them to spend some hard-earned money to come to your show. The more press you get, usually the better the sales numbers in albums, show tickets, and merch.
In fact, side rant impending: every once in a while, people have to rag on Geoff Tate and say how his voice went to crap. And they usually link in a vid where he was doing a radio show interview and sang a song and was sounding rough. But if you listen carefully to the interview, they came into town the day before and did the show the night before. Left the stage approximately midnight. So, he gets back to the hotel to take a shower, change clothes, pack his stuff and check out for prep to ride to the next town. Get something to eat because it is been more than 8 hours since he had anything to eat. And then show up at the radio station about 5:45 am to prep for the interview. So, he has not been to bed since sometime the previous morning. He has been up and about for about 20 hours or more. And is singing a song because they begged him to do so.
And armchair or computer desk experts point to that as proof.
That could be you. So, training with 4 P is going to give you endurance and a methodology you will need to keep with you in those physically adverse conditions. You are on the right path with the right system and I know so because I hear Robert singing and his heroic sound fills any room. You also have one of those heroic voices and will go far.
Just watch out for low ceilings and brown m&m's.
 

More practicing. 
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0n97Xf00HlV
My B3-A4 siren is pretty smooth. 
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0GDYxCgK49u
I have the G#4 down pretty well. I think this clip also illustrates my improved breath control.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0s0A3mXTBEi
And I have an inconsistent A#4 that I can touch...still causing a lot of trouble for me. 

Once we post a clip of our singing, it becomes a Review My Singing Request. Please avoid doing this. I have edited out the link

I've always worked hard on my voice but I've never had the guidance I needed.  Recently I have elected help from Jens and Daniel and they both played a substantial role in peeling away the first layers of bullshit to get me on the right path.
  However I took lessons sparingly and unfortunately I realized I was so profoundly lost in assumptions, bad habits, bad muscle memory, etc etc that merely getting a few lessons was not going to be enough.  So that's why I recently decided to buckle down and get a genuine vocal program that I could adhere to and schedule to.. to optimize and streamline my training to it's fullest potential.  Of course, when it came time to make this decision there was no program that came more highly recommended than Four Pillars.  
I haven't even been at this for two weeks and yet I already see great progress and more importantly, I have complete confidence in the information I am being given.  I have already had two lessons with Robert and each one has been a genuine pleasure and one step further in the right direction of achieving my dream of having a big and exciting voice.  
Thank you Robert, for your help and for drafting what I truly believe to be the best program out there right now.  

I still don't know where I'm going to use the falsetto, but I think it's necessary here. To convey the sensitivity. And I need to think about doing other things, and how I'm going to do those things.

Getting used to singing this song. Decided to upload a first short take. Don't have the backing track just yet, so acapella. 
 
 

"Well if the pitch is just pressing the wrong key on the piano then there is need for some lessons
But on the other hand, if my vocal cords dont stretch to that key then there is little point trying"
 
I wouldn't look at it like that. I think you're capable of singing on-pitch.
 
You just could really use somebody to tell you every time you're off-pitch and on-pitch, just like my teacher did, while they're right in front of you. Then you'll start to recognize things and you'll be able to feel it.
 
I can't tell you exactly how much, but I think your pitch would be at the point I'm talking about in less than 2 years, with serious practice. Might seem long to a beginner, but people train for decades. I think @ronws up there has been singing at least 20 years. Think about it. When in your life are you ever going to stop singing?
 
I don't think you should do a vocal range test right now because you're not able to sing what you're hearing correctly just yet. It would be somewhat inaccurate.
 
If you mean you should not give up on that song, then I agree that you should keep working. If you mean you shouldn't throw away that cover of the song, I agree that I wouldn't throw it away either. Keep it so you can monitor progress. I believe I still have recordings from when I first started, around 5-6 years ago.

To me, the verbal delivery says country, but something about the tempo and the subtle guitar playing paired with those short pockets of silence, says folk.

Getting used to singing this song. Decided to upload a first short take. Don't have the backing track just yet, so acapella. 
 
 

"Not an easy song". Sounds like the perfect analysis of a challenge song
 
I like what you did here. Almost sounds folky. Interesting take.

"Not an easy song". Sounds like the perfect analysis of a challenge song
 
I like what you did here. Almost sounds folky. Interesting take.

I think I see what's going on here, Simon. Never be afraid to take criticism. You can always get better and you're here to do just that. There are no bullies around here. Only people who will tell you what issues you have and how to fix them.
 
This should be helpful. Please read: