I can't make you love me (Bonnie Raitt) - Vocal Practice

[Gneetapp]

I finally had the time to practice and recorded this lovely song. The effects were compressor, EQ, Delay and Reverb. I would like to thank Rob Lunte for inspiring me to work in this song. I know it is still rough in several patches but I hope with time and work it will become a worthy cover. 

[ronws]

I like the rough edge to your voice, If I could suggest, however, keep the vowels simple. Earlier, with "eyes", you sang ah-ees and that dipthong made a wobble. Later with "fight," you held the ah and that is what gave that line such mobility and you could take it wherever you wanted. When singing, you cannot pronounce the same way as when you speak. Later in the song, you simplified your vowels and it was the stronger section. If you do the first half like the second half, it will be consistent.

And that's just a suggestion, because I like what you did with this, including singing in or near the original key.

[Gneetapp]

4 minutes ago, ronws said:

I like the rough edge to your voice, If I could suggest, however, keep the vowels simple. Earlier, with "eyes", you sang ah-ees and that dipthong made a wobble. Later with "fight," you held the ah and that is what gave that line such mobility and you could take it wherever you wanted. When singing, you cannot pronounce the same way as when you speak. Later in the song, you simplified your vowels and it was the stronger section. If you do the first half like the second half, it will be consistent.

And that's just a suggestion, because I like what you did with this, including singing in or near the original key.

Thank you so much for your kind words, review and tips Ronws. I always learn something from your tips. You are right about the 2nd half being stronger than the 1st. I just don't know what happened, but I had work really hard to make the levels more similar. At first I thought it was just the mic distance or the way I placed my voice, but it could have been the narrowing of the vowels. I also listened several pitchy spots I can fix, but am more concerned with the overall timbre, as I wasn't sure how I was going to approach the song. I'm glad you liked man. I'll keep working on it on my schedule. Thanks again

[ronws]

I think the timbre totally works. Just use one vowel instead of two in a long note. That makes it more consistent.

[Gneetapp]

1 minute ago, ronws said:

I think the timbre totally works. Just use one vowel instead of two in a long note. That makes it more consistent.

Thanks man, I'll try to work at that when I sing from now on.

[Robert Lunte]

Gneetapp, 

Ya, a fun and lovely song to sing...

Ah, you chose to try it an octave higher then I did. I tried it like this as well, just felt I had more control and mojo at the lower octave.. but your voice is pretty... I like the color.

- Be careful not to sing the diphthongs ... "... you can't make m-ee...". Always better to sing through on the open vowel that is presented to you, and let the diphthong be a diphthong. NOT to sustain the "ee".

- 2:00 - 2:08 - tastey.

- I like the little sob/weep onsets your putting into this... well done and very appropriate.

- 3:01 "ma-eek"... theres that diphthong that is being sustained again... careful.

- The rhythmic cues could stand to be tightened up it seems... or maybe you wanted to interpret it loose like this?  There are some onsets and offsets and timing points that are a bit squirrely... tighten up the cues.

- Nice work... Again, I really like the "weepy"/sob vibe you are getting and the color of your voice on that higher octave is really pretty, very tenor'esque.

Glad that my effort inspired you to give it a go... its fun to sing.

[MDEW]

I do not have anything to add except to say I listened and I like it. I also agree with Ronws and Robert dipthongs are a killer.

Other than that awesome job.

[Gneetapp]

20 hours ago, Robert Lunte said:

Gneetapp, 

Ya, a fun and lovely song to sing...

Ah, you chose to try it an octave higher then I did. I tried it like this as well, just felt I had more control and mojo at the lower octave.. but your voice is pretty... I like the color.

- Be careful not to sing the diphthongs ... "... you can't make m-ee...". Always better to sing through on the open vowel that is presented to you, and let the diphthong be a diphthong. NOT to sustain the "ee".

- 2:00 - 2:08 - tastey.

- I like the little sob/weep onsets your putting into this... well done and very appropriate.

- 3:01 "ma-eek"... theres that diphthong that is being sustained again... careful.

- The rhythmic cues could stand to be tightened up it seems... or maybe you wanted to interpret it loose like this?  There are some onsets and offsets and timing points that are a bit squirrely... tighten up the cues.

- Nice work... Again, I really like the "weepy"/sob vibe you are getting and the color of your voice on that higher octave is really pretty, very tenor'esque.

Glad that my effort inspired you to give it a go... its fun to sing.

Hi Robert, thank you so much for your review and specially for your kind words. I really got to pay attention on the vowels and diphthongs, they are always throwing me off. I think this is the original key, or very close. I don't think I could do this song justice if I did it 1 octave lower than the original. So I had to work on the original key. I started flirting with this song right before one of the vocal challenges we had. But back then I still could not touch this the way I did now, although I still have trouble with a few spots (e.g. "and I will give up this fight...") where I still strain a bit. I thought that a little sadness would be appropriate as it is a break-up song, but I was concerned that it would sound too much whiny. I got to work also on the rhythmic cues too, especially on the chorus, although I think I did better  on the 2nd chorus. I will keep on working in this song trying to get stronger, improve the rhythmic cues, and narrowing the vowels. Thanks again for your review, it means a lot to me. Cheers

[Robert Lunte]

1 hour ago, Gneetapp said:

I thought that a little sadness would be appropriate as it is a break-up song

I think some "life experience" in this regard, really helps someone sing this song better... most people have felt like this before. You love someone, but they are not reciprocating. I tried to dial into that feeling on my interpretation. 

Not to steal your spotlight Gneetapp... just so people can get a chance to do some "A/B" testing... and hear the two versions at different octaves, etc... not for my ego, but for educational purposes... 

 

[Gneetapp]

On February 27, 2016 at 10:06 PM, MDEW said:

I do not have anything to add except to say I listened and I like it. I also agree with Ronws and Robert dipthongs are a killer.

Other than that awesome job.

Many thanks for your kind words MDEW. I agree with you regarding this diphthongs...

[Gneetapp]

17 hours ago, Robert Lunte said:

I think some "life experience" in this regard, really helps someone sing this song better... most people have felt like this before. You love someone, but they are not reciprocating. I tried to dial into that feeling on my interpretation. 

Not to steal your spotlight Gneetapp... just so people can get a chance to do some "A/B" testing... and hear the two versions at different octaves, etc... not for my ego, but for educational purposes... 

 

That is a great idea Rob! And BTW, I don't think you are trying to steal my spotlight, specially because I didn't post a video ;-p 

But now You put a pressure on me to work harder to improve my version to clean the rough spots, and make it worthy to compare with. I'll try to do my best on my time. Cheers

[KillerKu]

This could become a thing. Onto the review.

I can start with some of what interests me about it. I like the rough, harsh quality of the vocal, it has a defiantly independent quality to it and for me that quality sits very well with the subject matter. Everyone has flaws, rough qualities, or harsh qualities, and often times we are rejected for those reasons. Perfection is easier to love. Most people aren't rejected because they are too perfected. 

However, while I think that quality is important, I do think the backing track has this polished quality that is a bit at odds with it so it creates a bit of dissonance. I think keeping some of the tonal roughness, while ironing out a bit of the pitch and timing might mesh better. Maybe even a slightly more polished production on the vocal with a bit more reverb and perhaps delay. In my head I hear a middle ground, a slightly rougher, dirtier (imperfect) backing track, and a slightly more polished (still imperfect) voice might find a middle ground where the two could meet and agree on the expression.

That said, I can feel the heartfelt qualities in the performance and there are times when it works completely for me musically, but other times feels a bit in congruent. If you keep training you'll likely get the expression congruent cause I can already hear it in there, it's just not quiet held together all the time for me yet.

[Gneetapp]

14 hours ago, KillerKu said:

This could become a thing. Onto the review.

I can start with some of what interests me about it. I like the rough, harsh quality of the vocal, it has a defiantly independent quality to it and for me that quality sits very well with the subject matter. Everyone has flaws, rough qualities, or harsh qualities, and often times we are rejected for those reasons. Perfection is easier to love. Most people aren't rejected because they are too perfected. 

However, while I think that quality is important, I do think the backing track has this polished quality that is a bit at odds with it so it creates a bit of dissonance. I think keeping some of the tonal roughness, while ironing out a bit of the pitch and timing might mesh better. Maybe even a slightly more polished production on the vocal with a bit more reverb and perhaps delay. In my head I hear a middle ground, a slightly rougher, dirtier (imperfect) backing track, and a slightly more polished (still imperfect) voice might find a middle ground where the two could meet and agree on the expression.

That said, I can feel the heartfelt qualities in the performance and there are times when it works completely for me musically, but other times feels a bit in congruent. If you keep training you'll likely get the expression congruent cause I can already hear it in there, it's just not quiet held together all the time for me yet.

Hi Killer, many thanks for your review my friend. Yeah, I agree with you, and I think Rob must be onto something interesting to try. I think the harsh quality of the vocals could be part because I was pushing a bit harder than I needed and part because as a rocker that is my style. And I agree with you that it sounds a bit odd sometimes because of the polished quality (jazz feel) of the backing track. Which makes me think that turning this song into a power ballad might benefit my voice. I recorded the vocals dry and then added compressor, EQ, delay and reverb. As I was afraid to overdo with the delay and reverb, maybe it was not enough? Regarding the expression, to be honest, I wasn't completely sure of how I was going to sing all the different parts, placement wise. So, I did change things a bit, specially in the choruses ("here in the dark, in these final hours, I will lay down my heart, and I'll feel the power, but you won't..."). I'll try to make some improvements and re-post it. Thanks again for your comments, I'm glad you liked it. Cheers

 

[Gneetapp]

On February 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Robert Lunte said:

I think some "life experience" in this regard, really helps someone sing this song better... most people have felt like this before. You love someone, but they are not reciprocating. I tried to dial into that feeling on my interpretation. 

Not to steal your spotlight Gneetapp... just so people can get a chance to do some "A/B" testing... and hear the two versions at different octaves, etc... not for my ego, but for educational purposes... 

 

Hey Rob, last night I had some spare time, and just for kicks tried this song 1 octave below, like you did. Oh man I took such a beating! It was so hard to sing the lowest notes, and the ones I managed to sing didn't sound natural to my ears. I might actually record it just to amuse you guys with my pathetic attempt to sound manly with a thundering voice...

[Gneetapp]

1 hour ago, YouCanSingAnything said:

FYI what I would do to fix the vocal track is record closer to the microphone. You sound way too far away! Getting closer to the mic would (like less than 1 foot away) would add in some much needed bass/mid frequencies (proximity effect) and cut out some of the highs (room sound.) Check the distance Rob is standing in his video! This is ideal for most of us who don't have a $10,000 treated room at our disposal.

When you EQ cut off some of that high end and add in some low end. There's also way too much "air" in the sound, which is typical of a condenser microphone (sounds like that's what you're using.) For some reason I tend to mix in a similar way as well; wanting the vocals to pop out by emphasizing the highs. It's a mistake! Even though you're a tenor, emphasize the fullness of the vocals and leave in only a little bit of the high end for flavor.

Thank you so much for your review/tips YouCanSingAnything. Dude, what a long login name, can I call you You for short? ;-)

Yes you are right about the condenser mic, but I think I was about 1 foot away from the mic. I will definitely remember to "eat the mic" in my next attempt. Additionally, I think my mic was acting out during my recording, as I got a few dropouts in other takes, or perhaps was a faulty cable. Regarding the EQ, I have no idea of what to do, and as I'm a lazy arse I just pick a preset for lead vocals or rock vocals (I use Logic Pro X) and listen for the result. But I'll try to be more active about EQ in my next recordings. How would you suggest me to proceed, what type of EQ to use, the frequencies to cut or boost, etc.

Many thanks again "You", Cheers

[Gneetapp]

3 minutes ago, YouCanSingAnything said:

Ha my name is Tristan =p.

Your distance/EQ really depends on the microphone. There's no solid answer I can give... Just know that you can do things like changing the microphone's position in relation to your mouth (what angle are you singing into it?), change the microphones position in the room (I have Xs taped on the floor of my bedroom where I think the microphone sounds best.) When you consider all of these variables plus the fact that every singer needs to be EQ'd different... using presets isn't a great idea!

Rather then rant on here I'll send you some links to channels you can check out for more info =). It seems like a lot at first but it's not as bad as it sounds =p

Yeah, I got you Tristan. I know that using presets is not the best way because every singer has a different voice, and also because of the song style, it is just the quickest. ;-)

I promise to start paying more attention to that, as taping an X on the floor would be out of the question because when I record I do it wherever I can . Usually, when I practice singing while playing acoustic guitar, I do it in the kitchen because is wide and has a natural reverb. But for recording, perhaps I should try my closet. I would just have to endure the endless jokes about singing in the closet... LOL

Cheers

[Gneetapp]

1 minute ago, YouCanSingAnything said:

Eeek! Yes get out of the kitchen!! Apply reverb in your DAW not from the room!! That's a big part of what is giving a lot of the harshness to the vocals! Reflective surfaces like you'd find in the kitchen are a bad idea 99% of the time! I like my bedroom better than my closet =p. Every room has a different sound, even a closet. It's all about finding the room/position within that room that sounds the best. Good luck!

Hey Tristan, the kitchen is only for acoustic and acapela practice, never for recording! haha 

Even I know that I have to avoid the natural reverb of the room in recordings. Cheers 

[Robert Lunte]

Gneetapp,

For sure,... let's hear the lower octave version. That would be an interesting study.

[Gneetapp]

Hey guys, and Robert Lunte, here is me practicing the same song 1 octave lower. I noticed how unstable, and even off pitch the lowest notes were, but to be honest I had no idea if I could ever do it, anyways... cheers

 

On March 2, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Robert Lunte said:

Gneetapp,

For sure,... let's hear the lower octave version. That would be an interesting study.

 

[ronws]

Yeah, there's some off pitches but I think that is from pushing a little too much. I think, the key to the low end is the same as the high end. Manage the breath and let the folds do what they will.

[Robert Lunte]

Gneetapp,

Way to go, making an effort at this... I admire your hard work and effort to experiment. Real deal.

This is sharp.

A lot of sharp intonation in here... not sure why, I think it is a resonance situation... you may need more practice feeling resonance on these lower notes. 

Something assures me that if you did this a few more times, you would tune this up and make it work. It is not ready at this octave... but with a few more tries you could make it work. 

If you like I could work on this resonance with you over a skype lesson... we could work on the song together... 

[aravindmadis]

Gneetapp.. I like your voice in the higher octave.  It sounds more natural for your voice.  I must say that I like Rob's version in the lower octave coz he has got that effortless low notes that create the more signature Rob sound!   

Quite a big task to want to sing same song in two different octaves, but great effort!

[Gneetapp]

10 hours ago, ronws said:

Yeah, there's some off pitches but I think that is from pushing a little too much. I think, the key to the low end is the same as the high end. Manage the breath and let the folds do what they will.

Hi Ronws, thanks for checking it out man! It was so much harder to do this lower octave version than the original, although the version in the original key was not perfect either. Yes, managing the breath and the resonance too. Thanks my friend.

[Gneetapp]

10 hours ago, Robert Lunte said:

Gneetapp,

Way to go, making an effort at this... I admire your hard work and effort to experiment. Real deal.

This is sharp.

A lot of sharp intonation in here... not sure why, I think it is a resonance situation... you may need more practice feeling resonance on these lower notes. 

Something assures me that if you did this a few more times, you would tune this up and make it work. It is not ready at this octave... but with a few more tries you could make it work. 

If you like I could work on this resonance with you over a skype lesson... we could work on the song together... 

Hi Robert, thanks for checking this out! Yeah man, as I said before, really unstable. Although I didn't think I could even pull this off, not only because of my natural voice feels more comfortable higher, but especially because my lack of time for training in the last 2-4 months. To be honest, I tried this song in this key last week, when I mentioned that I would give it a try, and last Saturday when I recorded it. You mention that I was sharp in several places, that could be my voice instinctively trying to go back to my comfort zone LOL. I agree with you regarding putting more practice and thought into this version to make it work, and thanks for the tempting offer, but unfortunately my free time has been scarce lately. I even had to put my band on hold. Thanks again Rob.

[Gneetapp]

4 hours ago, aravindmadis said:

Gneetapp.. I like your voice in the higher octave.  It sounds more natural for your voice.  I must say that I like Rob's version in the lower octave coz he has got that effortless low notes that create the more signature Rob sound!   

Quite a big task to want to sing same song in two different octaves, but great effort!

Thanks a lot Aravind! I totally agree with you man. And this was so much harder than to sing it in the original key. But on the other hand, I was pleasantly surprised with the results, although not near the attempt in the high key. I had never imagined that I could do it, not only because like you, I got a higher pitch voice, but also because I tried only once before recording, and it was way worse than this. LOL. I actually did this for fun and experimentation, as I knew there was no way I could do it well. Cheers