Singing CRITIQUE needed for very shy female !

[arouna]

Hi

I've dreamed of singing since i was a wee lass. But now, seriously think about it all the time. I have no vocal training, band or anything like that. But, also don't know if I'm good enough, or if I'm tone deaf and think I might be able to sing. I'm very shy too and have only ever sung in front of one person.

I decided life is a flash so have been brave enough to put up just a snapshot of my vid on youtube and here to get honest comments.

I'll take the criticisms as long as you are honest I guess. If I sound like a strangled frog, then I'll stop dreaming of being a singer - in the meantime, PLEEEEZe some feedback would be most welcome.

Good luck to all of you out there too on your quests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8JF1vADCus

Arouna x

[Snejk]

Well, I'd say you're being way to harsh on yourself.

You have the innate talent. I'd say that you're working from the wrong direction though. You have some agility in your voice and that is an awesome asset not many have/can control. However you wail and search for notes waaaay too much. This leads to many of the notes being 'sour'.

I can only speak from my own experience (started singing in the shower at 22 years of age, I'm 29 now) and it was at around 25 that I started singing with my ears (if that doesn't get me into the funny farm..), being EXTREMELY attentive to every note I took and if I was just a wee bit off pitch, I would always acknowledge it and re-try.

Pitch has been my biggest issue and the one I worked with the most and still continue to do. But to improve in that area, one must be willing to listen carefully to oneself while singing. Training your ears while training your voice. You're not tone deaf, but for acapella things you need to practice a lot by listening.

Keep up the good work, because you have what it takes to be a great singer..ess.. Singstress..

Am I drunk?

[arouna]

Thanks so much for your honest feedback, it's really appreciated!!

Would you mind explaining what you mean by 'wail' in terms of singing and searching for notes, as i'm not familiar with these terms? If i am familiar then i can work in these things. Cheers. I've also only recorded into my iphone microphone which probably doesn't help ha! Thank you

Arouna

[Snejk]

Wailing would in the context be quick interval leaps. I am no expert at it but I'll show you what I mean (this is also an iphone recording, nice to see someone else using the phone for musical purposes! )

Around 1:20 or 1:30...

https://soundcloud.com/archdementh/no-time-for-us

It's a bit iffy but I improvised it on the spot (as I assume you did as well while recording).

[Jugulator]

Amazing voice! The way you sing is awesome. So don't be shy and start singing with a band.

[arouna]

Thanks Snejk and Jugulator for your comments. You're both amazing singers - wow! I feel unworthy

Jugulator thanks for your feedback. Can you expand a little on what I may do to improve my voice, as every ear hears something different I guess , and as per the other comments which I am trying to take on board, i'm a little confused :/ ?

Many thanks!;)

[Jugulator]

Well, the only thing you need IMO is to develop as an artist. So climb the stage and let it rock (or jazz, whatever you prefer) :)

[MDEW]

You have a really good sound. You do not sound like a strangled frog so that is something to stop worrying about.

One thing I would suggest. Sing without too much embellishments for awhile. That is like the icing on a cake. A little is awesome. Too much or Too rich ruins it. Bake the cake first. When you have a great foundation then the embellishments will add to the sound instead of taking away from it.

The first line was awesome, Then you started to add a little too much.

I write this to help you not to discourage. I would love to hear more. :)

[RHan]

wow really amazing! how do you learn to sing with the 'embellishments'? i dont know what it called, but MDEW did mentioned it as 'embellishments' so i guess thats what it called :D

[Snejk]

That is what's known as wailing like I said in the second post.

[MDEW]

The embellishments are Licks and Runs. Taking a note or syllable that should be a steady pitch and making a new melody around it. A little can be awesome but too much can take away from the meaning of the song.

Vocal acrobatics. :cool:

[Snejk]

Exactly. Beyonce is one example of one who is skilled but still wails to such a degree it's detrimental to the song and seems more like a way to flaunt her prowess :/ I do it sparingly because sometimes it just catches an emotion that a straight melody line doesn't. But they are always improvised, never pre-written.. At least that's how I work

EDIT: I googled it and it seems "wailing" as a term describing agile interval leaps is not very common in English o_O Weird because here you hear it all the time "att waila sönder en låt" (to ruin a song by wailing). It's not even a Swedish word, yet everyone who's watched Idol or The Voice here hears the judges using the term constantly when someone does "licks and runs"..

The things you learn, heh...

EDIT 2:

"Wail eller vocal riffing, melismer eller licks som det även kallas, är sångliga utsmyckningar. Att waila är att göra små melodiförändringar, mer eller mindre förutbestämda eller helt improviserade.

Soulgenrerna har gjort det till en egen konstart, men det är också ganska vanligt inom både rock och pop.

Det viktiga är att veta när, var och hur mycket som behövs för att åstadkomma önskad effekt. Wail ska vara en krydda som förstärker det musikaliska uttrycket och inte stå i vägen för kärnan i musiken"

"Wail, or 'vocal riffing', melisms or licks as it's also called, are vocal ornates. To wail is to make small changes in melody, more or less pre-written or entirely improvised.

Soul genres have made it into a standalone artform, but it's also pretty common in both rock and pop.

The important thing is to know when, where and how much of it is needed to achieve a desired effect. Wail should be a 'spice' that enhances the musical expression and not stand in the way for the core of the music."

[gilad]

Arouna,

You have an amazing voice, with a beautiful color to it. I would go full into vocal training as you really have something special. I really enjoyed listening to your rendition of amazing grace in acapella.

Best of luck!

Gilad

[Validar]

Good overall, and you have a nice, warm tone. Be careful with the runs, though. They are great to have in your arsenal, but too much can make a song seem more like a technique demonstration than a song.

You definitely have potential. So, if you have a genuine passion for this, keep at it.

[RHan]

Exactly. Beyonce is one example of one who is skilled but still wails to such a degree it's detrimental to the song and seems more like a way to flaunt her prowess :/ I do it sparingly because sometimes it just catches an emotion that a straight melody line doesn't. But they are always improvised, never pre-written.. At least that's how I work

EDIT: I googled it and it seems "wailing" as a term describing agile interval leaps is not very common in English o_O Weird because here you hear it all the time "att waila sönder en låt" (to ruin a song by wailing). It's not even a Swedish word, yet everyone who's watched Idol or The Voice here hears the judges using the term constantly when someone does "licks and runs"..

The things you learn, heh...

EDIT 2:

"Wail eller vocal riffing, melismer eller licks som det även kallas, är sångliga utsmyckningar. Att waila är att göra små melodiförändringar, mer eller mindre förutbestämda eller helt improviserade.

Soulgenrerna har gjort det till en egen konstart, men det är också ganska vanligt inom både rock och pop.

Det viktiga är att veta när, var och hur mycket som behövs för att åstadkomma önskad effekt. Wail ska vara en krydda som förstärker det musikaliska uttrycket och inte stå i vägen för kärnan i musiken"

"Wail, or 'vocal riffing', melisms or licks as it's also called, are vocal ornates. To wail is to make small changes in melody, more or less pre-written or entirely improvised.

Soul genres have made it into a standalone artform, but it's also pretty common in both rock and pop.

The important thing is to know when, where and how much of it is needed to achieve a desired effect. Wail should be a 'spice' that enhances the musical expression and not stand in the way for the core of the music."

wow sounds so complicated and hard to learn i already sing for 2 years but i cant even do simple vibrato, and these wailing / licks and runs sounds much more advance :rolleyes:

[Snejk]

wow sounds so complicated and hard to learn i already sing for 2 years but i cant even do simple vibrato, and these wailing / licks and runs sounds much more advance

Like you, I don't have a natural vibrato but after I heard Michael Kiskes well pronounced vibrato I decided to get it as well.. I quickly learned that you can't apply the same vibrato technique in all registers. I started with just semi-tonal wobbling that matched the songss rhythm and then I just tried and failed in other registers til I tried and succeeded

https://soundcloud.com/archdementh/archania-rise

Listen to this, the first half of the first verse I use two entirely different vibrato techniques. And as I play with bright tenor sound and fuller baritone sound I also have to adapt the vibrato technique accordingly. The vibrato in the shriek at 3:30 is entirely diaphragm as opposed to the simple larynx wobbling in the first strophe of the song.

Learning vibrato is CRUCIAL in learning how to wail in a pleasant and controlled way simply because, well, a vibrato that YOU are in 100% control of means you can just wail it away through the octaves using the exact same technique but not just using it for semi-tonal oscillation =)

[RHan]

Like you, I don't have a natural vibrato but after I heard Michael Kiskes well pronounced vibrato I decided to get it as well.. I quickly learned that you can't apply the same vibrato technique in all registers. I started with just semi-tonal wobbling that matched the songss rhythm and then I just tried and failed in other registers til I tried and succeeded

https://soundcloud.com/archdementh/archania-rise

Listen to this, the first half of the first verse I use two entirely different vibrato techniques. And as I play with bright tenor sound and fuller baritone sound I also have to adapt the vibrato technique accordingly. The vibrato in the shriek at 3:30 is entirely diaphragm as opposed to the simple larynx wobbling in the first strophe of the song.

Learning vibrato is CRUCIAL in learning how to wail in a pleasant and controlled way simply because, well, a vibrato that YOU are in 100% control of means you can just wail it away through the octaves using the exact same technique but not just using it for semi-tonal oscillation =)

thanks for being so helpful, too bad i dont think i can brain all this complicated things with all singing terms. i only know falsetto, vibrato.. and maybe soprano? so i only can conclude from what you have said which is vibrato can be learned even without natural vibrato. thanks sir! but for now i will get all the basics right first :P

[Snejk]

NP EVERYONE can learn vibrato. You will always be able to oscillate faster in falsetto/head than in your lowest chest simply because of weight =) Maybe that's why..? Falsetto/head vibrato is much easier to control as well.

[arouna]

Wow well very surprised by many of the comments - thank you for your generosity!

When i recorded it it was in between making my dinner haha.

Seriously though, yes is was only a demo hence the short clip just to give a demo of my voice ability or not as the matter may be ;/

I can control the wailing, vibrato as much as I wish as it seems to be natural, something i've always been able to do but didn't know how it sounded to other ears.

I'm very very self critical of my voice and don't like alot about it, but just LOVE music,singing and I also write all my own songs which I really enjoy too.

So I will take on board all of your comments - thank you - and apply these to starting to practice. I've never practiced or trained in my life so HOW do i do that and what do you think i need to practice on?

I guess i'll find out as I start singing and recording on my iphone.

To Snejk - thanks for all your help and advice most appreciated. Your voice is awesome! Also ,I love Beyonce ))))) I guess we all have different tastes

To RHAN - I don't know the answer re: vibrato, as It's something that seems to just come out when I sing but, i guess I will work on it to tone it down a bit. but i did put lots of embellishing as it was supposed to be a snapshot. I don't know how to practice obtaining vibrato if it doesn't come natural. I guess each of us has some vocal skill that isn't ours naturally and we can learn from someone else? Snejk explains it well!

MDEW thank you - i really like the way you've succinctly explained things - that works for me ) I'll be taking in all that you've said definitely.

IF i was to ask, what genre you would place me in, what would it be, cause I haven't a clue ??

AND ........... If I were in a band, would you listen to me ?

Many thanks guys, so many brilliant musicians here!

Arouna x

[Felipe Carvalho]

This sounds nice arouna. You have a bit of vibrato comming, which is enough, sounds natural, and probably as you adjust your voice a bit more, it will show more. There isnt a way to specifically learn vibrato, it comes from relaxation, OR doing tricks to emulate it.

Lot of potential and room for work, its still a bit shy, a bit hidden away, but great musicianship. And your voice sounds quite good, dont worry about timbre or sounding like a frog, really not the case.

Two things getting in your way on this one, one is as mdew pointed, more simplicity, be more straight to the point, if everything is full of details, no details comes out. The second is the technical side (voice is a bit raw on this aspect), and you could surely work with the help of a teacher.

Keep going! :)

[jonpall]

You sound great. I would advice you to not necessarily spend too much time on vocal technique detail since your voice is already naturally very well developed and such singers can sometimes make things worse for themselves if they try to change their voice too much.

What you need to do is to make much more music than you already are doing! You're doing a little now, but apply for bands to join, don't give up, put more effort and time into songwriting and most of all, have fun with it. Then, if there is anything specific in terms of singing that you always find difficult to do, you can contact this forum or a vocal coach (someone with a good reputation and connects well with you) to help you with that problem. Good luck!

[ronws]

You already know intervals, which means you have relative pitch. So, it's difficult to listen to an essentially r&B version a capella and decide what is off pitch and on. In addition, your variations have more of a celtic folk song flavor. That and your phrase, "wee lass," makes me think you are from an english-speaking country, probably the UK, probably norther UK, most likely Scotland, though I could be wrong. But the phrase and the way you approach a note reminds me of another singer from Scotland.

So, I would imagine you have heard of vibrato before. Anyway, so I find it hard to imagine that you have never practiced. You have always wanted to sing, I am sure. So, one day, you just opened your mouth and this pipe and drum marching feel came out? That is amazing. I agree with others, you already have some chops that could work in a pop band. But maybe you want to showcase R&B. You might as well audition for American Idol. It has become R&B graduate school (secondary school in the UK.)

[gno]

Sounds absolutely beautiful arouna. Welcome to the forum. Even if your never sang for another person you must have done a lot of singing on your own. You have a very soulful approach. And you possess an advanced sense for phrasing and dynamics which is the most important thing for a singer ( beyond technique ). If you want to sing in a band you should do some more YouTube recordings but include a backing track. In a band setting, things that are crucial such as pitch accuracy and your sense for rhythm, are not tested in the acapella version. Singing to a background track will give us more clues as to things you may need work on.

[arouna]

Well thanks guys

You've all been so very supportive and kind, Just answering a few questions below as would take too long to answer individually so i'll be brief:

Nope I'm not Scottish, nope I haven't practiced or had lessons hence me being here for advice this WAS meant to be a demo, yes i just sing this way without practice whether you think it's good or naff, and I'm now more confused than ever with so much mixed opinion but nontheless an overwhelmiing response from some very passionate people. So, thanks to you all very much. Now, where to start!?! which advice do i take???

Kind regards Arouna x

[MDEW]

You have plenty of natural Talent. Where to start is just explore your voice. Sing along to backing tracks to see if you can. Singing accappella is a little different you do not have to stay in time with the music and you pick your own starting note. You might not find backing tracks that fit your natural range.

Technique is about control. Having your voice to do the things that you want it to do because that is what you want it to do. Not just what ever comes out comes out.